Autopsy Essendon v St Kilda (Round 23)

[Saintos The ITK]

Ok that’s enough. Back to the never ending Naz speculation.

 

[OxSaint]

Well, with or without NAS we are a long way from a top 8 team.

We need to find tall forwards. We cant rely on Pou, Wood, Owens, Sharman and a resting ruck without max. They just don’t get the job done aerialy

 

[mad-saint-guy]

This is not a Swipe at lance as I have said a million times he has immense talent but those who thought he showed a bit IMO must have had beer goggles on, if it was any other player you wouldn't have even mentioned him , let's see him do something before you cover him in mayo.
I watched him last night and a few times when the ball went past him he didn't put much effort into chasing, he has a long way to go .

I'm really not convinced that there is this immense talent being hidden behind poor work rate. If we're being honest, he's one of the worst performing players over the span of two years that we've had in a long time.

I think there is an adequate amount of talent that could be enough to make a handy player if paired with a great attitude and workrate, but those things seem to be lacking and the talent isn't enough to compensate.

 

[Yawkey way]

I'll agree to disagree. You obviously love Windy and fair dues. I'm taking Hugo with me on a footy field. Will smack the ruckman on the nose then hit a leading forward on the tit. I've seen that way more often from Hugo. I'm greedy and want both. Windy's the one out of contract just case you missed why the interest...

I don’t think either will take a backwards step and both fly the flag, I want both at the club.

Just quietly Tauru, Boxshall and Caminiti love the physical stuff and we’re quitely turning into a team others won’t enjoy playing against, I love it.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

I spent 40 minutes waiting for a replacement bus back to Geelong, only for it to stop all stations. Harden the fk up.

Hey my rail line has had a decade of non stop buses.

 

[jimmytigs]

i hope we are not playing our best,because if we are 100% trying and playing our proper game plan then something is very wrong & it makes all the arguments over recruiting and sc division redundant,because we are not getting anywhere near contending with our current list including naz windy marshall tdk and aleer

i am doing the atheist equivalent of praying that we are just experimenting re game plan etc,because what im seeing is totally ratshit

 

[El HOSS]

Feels like 4 in a row?
I swear half you campaigners have the memories of goldfish.
We beat Geelong round 2 and smashed Freo in round 8.
Pushed the hawks to within 20 and the cats at their crapola ground to 5 goals. Lost to the swans by under a kick.
Fair enough we've had our fair share of shockers: Round 1 against the crows, both games V the dogs and the game against West Coast.
We've also smashed the Tiges and then beat Port at their home ground and currently 4 on the trot.
For every poster saying we're bottom 4 and bemoaning doom and gloom, I challenge you to actually go back through our "fixture" and have a look at the results - and the players we've blooded.
It's easy to sit back and say we're cooked and "X club representative needs to go" but the reality is we arent that far off the 8.
This isnt a personal crack at you El Hoss but it is the straw that has broke the back.
The negativity without facts is downright draining, time for another extended break I think.

It's far from doom and gloom. Im actually very optimistic about our future for what its worth. During that run of 5 or 6 games against the top 8 clubs and Sydney I was very pleased. I was buoyed by those performances.

My comment was really directed toward the general energy of some our players, who I think, aren't playing with the level of intensity and desperation we'd all hope for.

A win is a win but its hard to get excited about a win against what is effectively a VFL side. Particularly given some of our performances against the better sides.

We seem to play more a attractive style in the losses and can only grind out wins at the moment which is a bit of a concern.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Can we talk about Boxshall please? Is he Yeo 2.0, Fyfe 2.0, Steele 2.0, what are we looking at? Plays tall, loves the contested game, showed some poise with a goal assist handballing from the bottom of a pack. Is being asked to play all over the joint really, saw him go forward, take marks on the wing, go to stoppage. Looks like he's going to be a player, just a matter of how high his ceiling is. Doing all this in his first year as a 19 year old as well.

On that note, we had: Tauru, Travaglia, Boxshall and Dodson all running around out there tonight getting a win in their first year at the club. It's only Barrat and Said who haven't got a game yet at senior level from last year's draft, and Said has been pretty injury interrupted this year.

It's been a frustrating year but if we can get 9 or 10 wins, play 4 out of our 6 draftees who are 18 and 19 years old, get more games into our group under ~23 (Garcia, Nas, Windy, Owens, Pou, O'Connell, Henry, Heath, Collard, Keeler, Hall, Wilson, Caminiti) and really make sure we're not wasting talent and really developing and testing if they're up to it, it's not a wasted year.

It's been very doom and gloom in here lately due to some out of contract players, but we've quietly gotten game time into a lot of young guys and without some mature KPPs (King, Howard). It ain't all bad.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

I spent 40 minutes waiting for a replacement bus back to Geelong, only for it to stop all stations. Harden the fk up.

I waited 40 minutes and got the express. Geelong Station at 11:30; home by 11:40

 

[Minga]

Love it when I start to take the new kids on the block for granted. Garcia comes to mind. Boxshall starting too also.

 

[KingDiamondHead]

Agree.

I’d much prefer NAS I my team than Albo, so id not even pay him that much. I mean he can’t even work out if he supports Hawthorn or Sydney…

Is this an analogy on his stance to the conflict in Gaza?

 

[KingDiamondHead]

Who would have thought that

• Wilson in his second year (Ross very complimentary of his contested game in the presser and stated he wants him on the ball)

He's the coach, if he truely wanted him on the ball no one is stopping you Ross. Killing his and Pou's development

 

[SaintsofSteel]

It's far from doom and gloom. Im actually very optimistic about our future for what its worth. During that run of 5 or 6 games against the top 8 clubs and Sydney I was very pleased. I was buoyed by those performances.

My comment was really directed toward the general energy of some our players, who I think, aren't playing with the level of intensity and desperation we'd all hope for.

A win is a win but its hard to get excited about a win against what is effectively a VFL side. Particularly given some of our performances against the better sides.

We seem to play more a attractive style in the losses and can only grind out wins at the moment which is a bit of a concern.

Its not all doom and gloom we do have some very good kids coming through. My concerns is we have so many players with floors in their games that they will never be able to consistently compete at the required level. Look at the better teams every player can hit a target and bite off a tough kick and every player is solid over the ball they dont double and triple handle the ball. The younger kids might be able to improve those aspects of their games, but the older guys arent going to change.

We will get Max King back, but we then rely so heavily on him when at best he is 50/50 in front of goals and you can see the burden he carries when he misses. Mitch Owens is the worst kick in the AFL and although he brings the effort and contests he is a liability in front of goals.

Then we are carrying the guys who simply want to play circle work footy like Brad Hill, Lance Collard, Wilson (improving), Keeler and Henry.

The older guys like Mason Wood, Jack Steele and Jack Macrae are just hanging on and are way too slow to be at the leading edge for a sucessful side. Zak Jones will be delisted but what other side apart from possibly Essendon with all their injuries would he get a game. I cant believe we are giving Paddy Dow another contract because of his poor luck. Thats not going to change and he is not going to move the dial in our midfield, its just another wasted list position.

TDK and Aleer will come in but neither player are in the top 3 for their position in the competition. They also have short comings and are not going to make a significant difference to our already fragile list.

The doom and gloom comes if we lose Wanganeen-Milera - he is the one player we have who is making a difference. Im expecting Nas will ask for a trade and even if we get relatively well compensated they wont be top 5 players, they will be gops or picks in heavily compromised drafts. If Nas doesnt play this year how many games would have we won - particularly the last 4?

 

[Jade Buddha]

We were poor last night. No question but I’d rather wake up to a win than a loss.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

He's the coach, if he truely wanted him on the ball no one is stopping you Ross. Killing his and Pou's development

I agree re Wilson if Ross wants him to put his nose over the ball and start winning hard contests play him in the role and give him the opportunity. Playing him on a wing of HFF just feeds into the outside player (mentallity) and Wilson second guesses himself. If the ball is in tight and its his job to win it he wont be thinking about other things, which he has shown at VFL level. He couldnt do any worse than Macrae and Steele dordling out of the middle.

Phillipou for me is still very much a work in progress for what he has produced. We havent really seen him play midfield at all that well, he has shown glimpses but nothing of consistency. Injury and fitness have cruelled his year.

WTF has happened to Henry he has fallen off a cliff and looks like he has lost the love of the game?

Really our player development has been inconsistent and all over the shop this year. There are different rules and measures applied for differing players, but that has been a norm with Lyon right throughout his coaching regime. There is no way Lance Collard has deserved a game at any time as a result of his VFL performances. Travaglia was also gifted games he wasnt deserving of and after last nights game Tauru should come under the spot light. Then we rush players back into the side when they are obviously not ready eg Phillipou or need a fair bit more time at VFL level eg Wilson to hone their crafts.

Yes we have got games into kids but most havent deserved and are all too often to their detriment. The entire list, injury management and VFL program has been well below parr this season.

 

[Sully111]

Bring on the excuses again but we just don't look like a well coached footy team

 

[SaintsofSteel]

We were poor last night. No question but I’d rather wake up to a win than a loss.

Just papered over the huge cracks in our list and gives those supporters less attuned to the nuances of the game false hope!

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Think we get flogged next game against GWS.
But if we could scape in another close one.
Would be much happier & optimistic in the off season.
Nas & Windy re-signing soon, would help too.

 

[Sir Owens]

Gresham 12 disposals, -7 metres gained

 

[Jade Buddha]

Just papered over the huge cracks in our list and gives those supporters less attuned to the nuances of the game false hope!

My crack doesn’t feel too papered this morning old son.

 

[Sully111]

Gresham 12 disposals, -7 metres gained

Even surrounded by VFL players he still looks like a spud

 

[CaptainRisky]

Gresham 12 disposals, -7 metres gained

Your point ? Will you be doig the same if Nas leaves

 

[JG22]

Boxshall becoming an outlet marking player on the wing is impressive

 

[SG34]

Firstly Pou is in his third year. Secondly for the vast majority he has been stuck in the fwd line, so tune when coming back from injury. Not surprising he’s been at his best when played on ball…

Well it’s hardly surprising he was less than effective and taking a spot. Let me ask this (again).
If we continuously play unfit or raw players who ‘need a run’ ..Henry, Philippou, we simply must accept that we will be reduce the odds of getting the four points. That’s all.
Obviously a guy if Pous talent is first starting 18, when ‘fit and firing’, it’s just that we have seen it happen four times over the three years. For Henry, we haven’t seen it for at least a year.

Pou is more important than ever.
I’d suggest that playing him is to keep the flag flying, to keep belief as we go into a future with ‘possibly’ no NAS.
I’m not knocking it, but we must accept the short term cost. EDIT, and me personally, I don’t understand it. I think Henry and Pou have been a liability everytime.

And there are other factors behind the scenes too. We are so vulnerable to losing stars to trades that we might need to play them in contexts where they might not otherwise have been played. Hence, Pou plays his first 1.5 seasons in the firsts instead of building in the seconds.

 

[El HOSS]

Its not all doom and gloom we do have some very good kids coming through. My concerns is we have so many players with floors in their games that they will never be able to consistently compete at the required level. Look at the better teams every player can hit a target and bite off a tough kick and every player is solid over the ball they dont double and triple handle the ball. The younger kids might be able to improve those aspects of their games, but the older guys arent going to change.

We will get Max King back, but we then rely so heavily on him when at best he is 50/50 in front of goals and you can see the burden he carries when he misses. Mitch Owens is the worst kick in the AFL and although he brings the effort and contests he is a liability in front of goals.

Then we are carrying the guys who simply want to play circle work footy like Brad Hill, Lance Collard, Wilson (improving), Keeler and Henry.

The older guys like Mason Wood, Jack Steele and Jack Macrae are just hanging on and are way too slow to be at the leading edge for a sucessful side. Zak Jones will be delisted but what other side apart from possibly Essendon with all their injuries would he get a game. I cant believe we are giving Paddy Dow another contract because of his poor luck. Thats not going to change and he is not going to move the dial in our midfield, its just another wasted list position.

TDK and Aleer will come in but neither player are in the top 3 for their position in the competition. They also have short comings and are not going to make a significant difference to our already fragile list.

The doom and gloom comes if we lose Wanganeen-Milera - he is the one player we have who is making a difference. Im expecting Nas will ask for a trade and even if we get relatively well compensated they wont be top 5 players, they will be gops or picks in heavily compromised drafts. If Nas doesnt play this year how many games would have we won - particularly the last 4?

I agree with many of your points.

What concerns me are the stark differences in our style/approach at various points throughout the past 2 years.

We are more than capable of playing an attacking style that seems to bring the most out of players. It also involves everyone, not just Nas taking on 3 players and hitting someone inside 50 or the scoreboard. When we do take the game on, the players that at times can't hit the side of a barn door look adequately skilled.

Because of that, Im optimistic about our list generally. The real concern is that for huge chunks of this season, we are stagnant, meek, slow and play a deplorable style with no apparent method. During these periods, it is deeply concerning. I, and assume many others, pull my hair out watching and wonder where we're headed.

I gather from Ross' pressers he doesn't quite know how to get them playing the former more frequently. I reckon the optics of the latter style then colour people's view on our list.