Autopsy Essendon v St Kilda (Round 23)

[SG34]

I agree with many of your points.

What concerns me are the stark differences in our style/approach at various points throughout the past 2 years.

We are more than capable of playing an attacking style that seems to bring the most out of players. It also involves everyone, not just Nas taking on 3 players and hitting someone inside 50 or the scoreboard. When we do take the game on, the players that at times can't hit the side of a barn door look adequately skilled.

Because of that, Im optimistic about our list generally. The real concern is that for huge chunks of this season, we are stagnant, meek, slow and play a deplorable style with no apparent method. During these periods, it is deeply concerning. I, and assume many others, pull my hair out watching and wonder where we're headed.

I gather from Ross' pressers he doesn't quite know how to get them playing the former more frequently. I reckon the optics of the latter style then colour people's view on our list.

I agree with much of Steelo’s comments too.
Except game style.
I think the game style is based on a general common sense approach for a list like ours, hobbled as it was, by a weak list, injuries, a crappy fixture and vulnerable to terrible results and wooden spoons.
I well remember when Lyon walked out and the new fella used a more attacking style for a while. People were ‘refreshed’ that we weren’t liberated from the turgid trench warfare.
It didn’t last.
And I don’t think it will.
We had a decent defensive unit on paper with Doogs, Battle, Wilkie, and even Cordy as a fill-in. And then Sincs and Hill scooting away from the the half-back flanks. Obviously that has eroded.
I think we need to get that back.
Our transition into the forward zone is poor but I wonder if we even have a forward zone.
Coops is a great third forward, not the big Kahuna Burger.
If Marshall has TDK helping him next year, we’ll be better off.
Remember the Ryder days?

 

[Sir Owens]

Your point ? Will you be doig the same if Nas leaves

I couldn't dumb it down anymore for you.

 

[malevu]

Close games can go either way and the standard of the opposition doesn't have a huge impact on the outcome. Winning four consecutive close games is deserving of credit. It's not exactly been our forte in years past. I'd hate to be on this board if we'd lost them all which we easily could have.

That said I'd gladly trade the four wins for Nas's signature

 

[g_TRAIN]

Pou is a midfielder.

When he had those 4 x weeks averaging 25 touches and a goal per game he was lining up to almost every center bounce.

He will actually kick more goals as a mid that drifts forward at this stage of his career.

I don't mind him playing forward if its for his learning and development but expectations shouldn't be as high.

Fully fit next year I'm confident Ross plans for him to be an inside mid.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Love it when I start to take the new kids on the block for granted. Garcia comes to mind. Boxshall starting too also.

View attachment 2396448

Holy crap if we draw with GWS could be all time meme worthy run of margins.

(69420)

((It's funny trust me))

 

[CaptainRisky]

I couldn't dumb it down anymore for you.

Great answer dopey , you need to move on , it was nearly three years ago he played for us ,

 

[Remboy]

I agree with much of Steelo’s comments too.
Except game style.
I think the game style is based on a general common sense approach for a list like ours, hobbled as it was, by a weak list, injuries, a crappy fixture and vulnerable to terrible results and wooden spoons.
I well remember when Lyon walked out and the new fella used a more attacking style for a while. People were ‘refreshed’ that we weren’t liberated from the turgid trench warfare.
It didn’t last.
And I don’t think it will.
We had a decent defensive unit on paper with Doogs, Battle, Wilkie, and even Cordy as a fill-in. And then Sincs and Hill scooting away from the the half-back flanks. Obviously that has eroded.
I think we need to get that back.
Our transition into the forward zone is poor but I wonder if we even have a forward zone.
Coops is a great third forward, not the big Kahuna Burger.
If Marshall has TDK helping him next year, we’ll be better off.
Remember the Ryder days?

I think just having King and Howard would make a huge difference to the way we play. At the moment our number one forward is probably Higgins and Sharman is expected to play on the number one key defender.
With Howard in Caminiti can play forward with King and Sharman as the number three. It would make a huge difference when we go forward. Every time you kick inside 50 we'd be much more dangerous in the air and on the ground with Higgins be able to get some quality crumbs.

 

[CaptainRisky]

A very mixed performance but managed to somehow get it done.

Hall is a star. Already a top 5 player. I feel safe when he has the ball and know good things are going to happen.

Sharman and Higgins deserve a lot of credit for making things happen. Our forward line is a black hole but they managed to have enough moments to get a score and nail the shots they had too.

Boxshall is a very impressive mark. Hugo had is his game. Both are developing very nicely. Was also impressive by Collard's intent when he came on. He had an intensity and investment that he's lacked in the VFL. If we can harness that and see it consistently, he will be a player.

I wasn't as impressed by Windy as most. He lacks a hurt factor to be playing at half back. He racks it up but it was a lot of nothing disposals. Was better in the 2nd half when he was positioned more midfield.

Tauru looked tired and he was struggling. Phillipou isnt fit enough to be playing so watching him struggle in the forward line is hard. Both need big preseasons but will be excellent players when fit.

I normally agree with most of what you post but to give Collard credit yet not be that impressed with Windy ???
If you think windy has little hurt factor there are about another 16 out there that are the same with their kicking sideways and backwards half the time , id rather Windy than about 14 of the others we put out there most weeks.
What exactly did Collard do to impress you

 

[BigMonty]

Did you watch Freo last night. Had almost a full list but were pantsed by a Bris missing quite a few and playing a.number of under 23s...yes we know about the father and sons gees Logan Morris can play.

Boxshall looks like Steele 2.0
Compare Trav to Goddard's first year who was slow got caught htb all the time, but he could kick.
Taura is ahead of Riewoldt who didn't even play year 1.....
Pou in the forward line ia like North with Mason Wood

32

Mason Wood

Age

32

Ht

192cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.3

2star

D

8.3

2star

K

2.7

1star

HB

5.7

3star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.3

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

15.8

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

always injured but became a star on the wing with us.
Wilson year 2...Joey hadn't played 10 games at same point.
Garcia shown more than Seb Ross at same stage for that matter Lenny Hayes

Lenny Hayes

Age

45

Ht

186cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.5

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

11.0

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

5.0

5star

CL

5.2

5star

No current season stats available

D

9.2

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

0.4

3star

.
We almost won a flag with Gilbert who couldn't kick but was athletically gifted.. Owens is similar.
Sharman has Gunston vibes and at the same stage he was not even at Hawks bit still an unknown at Adelaide.
Caminti has Danny Frawley vibes after only his 3rd season.
Windy is a GoF and we always need them...do anything play anywhere type.
Hall ffs Hall ffs Hall ffs...built and plays like Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

32

Ht

177cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

in his early days.
Thats 10 players that could be anything at the same stage of those stars development.
Throw in Dodson, Trav, Hastie, Shoey, LOC, who have shown a fair bit but still early doors... we are going okay.

Personally hope Nas stays and we will find out soon enough and the reason why the delay. If he goes reckon we trade Keeler if there is value and Collard for whatever WCE will pay.

Windy will sign I believe...he is testing the market to show Saints what he is worth and fair enough, I would do the same.

Marshall to Geelong makes sense for both clubs...if Saints see it that way.

Steele has no PoD for other clubs other than those needing a Parker type and like Macrae will finish at Saints end of next year.

Adelaide and Hawks were looking the goods one year then shit then rising again the next year. Development is not linear.
Mich rather have beaten teams the last 4 weeks ugly than play really well kick 15 goals and be two and two.
Lot to like aboutcwhere we are going.
The media loves to put the boots into Ross as he challenges dumb reporting. No one other than Joey and David King have mentioned that we have in effect turned over well over half our list with draft picks mostly outside of frdp. Lazy journalism says oh trade out stars to get frdp requires three years of no scrutiny.

No one talked about Naz at the start of the year and now not only is he the biggest story in town and how could StKilda be so inept not to have him signed but if he leaves its the end of the club and its seems to be all RTBs fault.

Neither is true, but let me say this the top clubs will do their homework on him for next year and he will not get the armchair ride of no scrutiny like he has had in the second half of this year.

Would you rather be Carlton Melbourne or for that matter Freo at the moment. Next year we will back on the fringes of the 8 and from there who knows.. Naz will just get us there a bit quicker...

END OF RANT

 

[g_TRAIN]

Interesting from Ross re that Wilson tackle. Wonder if we will see him play a bit more inside next week.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Holy crap if we draw with GWS could be all time meme worthy run of margins.

(69420)

((It's funny trust me))

The meme streak

 

[Saintbloke]

Just another end of season, nothing game. The effort is not there, poor tackling,

Pou is a midfielder.

When he had those 4 x weeks averaging 25 touches and a goal per game he was lining up to almost every center bounce.

He will actually kick more goals as a mid that drifts forward at this stage of his career.

I don't mind him playing forward if its for his learning and development but expectations shouldn't be as high.

Fully fit next year I'm confident Ross plans for him to be an inside mid.

Doesn't matter if he might be a mid or a half back, he needs to get hands on the ball no matter where he is playing, and he looks fit enough to make contests. For two games we have been a player down in the forward half with Pou there.

 

[BrutThough]

I normally agree with most of what you post but to give Collard credit yet not be that impressed with Windy ???
If you think windy has little hurt factor there are about another 16 out there that are the same with their kicking sideways and backwards half the time , id rather Windy than about 14 of the others we put out there most weeks.
What exactly did Collard do to impress you

Saying Windy lacked hurt factor with his disposals in the first half isnt saying everyone else did. That's a very "I like pancakes" "So you hate waffles?" interpretation of that statement. I think his best quarter was the third quarter when he was in the midfield instead of half back and I'd prefer we either play him in the middle or wing instead of down back.

I was impressed by Collards chase and closing speed. I forget he had that in him and it was good to see. I have lower standards for someone who hasn't touched the ball when coming on the ground the previous two times he's been sub. I like seeing small glimpses in Collard that he can play and can bring something to the team at this level.

 

[El HOSS]

I agree with much of Steelo’s comments too.
Except game style.
I think the game style is based on a general common sense approach for a list like ours, hobbled as it was, by a weak list, injuries, a crappy fixture and vulnerable to terrible results and wooden spoons.
I well remember when Lyon walked out and the new fella used a more attacking style for a while. People were ‘refreshed’ that we weren’t liberated from the turgid trench warfare.
It didn’t last.
And I don’t think it will.
We had a decent defensive unit on paper with Doogs, Battle, Wilkie, and even Cordy as a fill-in. And then Sincs and Hill scooting away from the the half-back flanks. Obviously that has eroded.
I think we need to get that back.
Our transition into the forward zone is poor but I wonder if we even have a forward zone.
Coops is a great third forward, not the big Kahuna Burger.
If Marshall has TDK helping him next year, we’ll be better off.
Remember the Ryder days?

That fuels my optimism. We get Po in the middle FT, a better ruckman, a FF and hopefully general improvement from the glut of 18 to 24 year olds and we could push for the 8. That said, being so NWM centric, if he stays, will be an issue I think.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Interesting from Ross re that Wilson tackle. Wonder if we will see him play a bit more inside next week.

Big pre-season in the gym for Wilson, then l see him as an inside mid.

 

[kosifantutti]

I spent 22 minutes waiting for a train at Southern Cross.

Although its a bitter sweet departure from Southern Cross. Its the last time Ill be catching the Pakenham line post football from Southern Cross.

Next year its Metro Tunnel

How do you get from Marvel to Metro tunnel?

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Saying Windy lacked hurt factor with his disposals in the first half isnt saying everyone else did. That's a very "I like pancakes" "So you hate waffles?" interpretation of that statement. I think his best quarter was the third quarter when he was in the midfield instead of half back and I'd prefer we either play him in the middle or wing instead of down back.

I was impressed by Collards chase and closing speed. I forget he had that in him and it was good to see. I have lower standards for someone who hasn't touched the ball when coming on the ground the previous two times he's been sub. I like seeing small glimpses in Collard that he can play and can bring something to the team at this level.

I thought Garcia & Hall were more impactful than Windy.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Saying Windy lacked hurt factor with his disposals in the first half isnt saying everyone else did. That's a very "I like pancakes" "So you hate waffles?" interpretation of that statement. I think his best quarter was the third quarter when he was in the midfield instead of half back and I'd prefer we either play him in the middle or wing instead of down back.

I was impressed by Collards chase and closing speed. I forget he had that in him and it was good to see. I have lower standards for someone who hasn't touched the ball when coming on the ground the previous two times he's been sub. I like seeing small glimpses in Collard that he can play and can bring something to the team at this level.

You sound like Gringo with your pancakes and waffles statement , I said there was another 16 that were as bad if not worse than him , what's so hard to understand about me saying that

 

[Diehard Saint]

Reckon his legs are starting to get pretty heavy, he's been playing 90% game time but only played 78% last night.

Off no preseason.
It’s not a surprise.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Looked like a game between two young teams who can see the finish line and can't wait to stumble accross it.

Not a fantastic win but its better than a loss.

Keeler, Heath or Dodson ? interested to hear peoples view on what each may offer. Dodson did some good things last night but no more than the other two have done during their short stints.

Keeler - could be just laconic but still have doubts he has the absolute commitment needed to make it.

Heath - good solid Tom Campbell type back up.

Dodson - looks the most likelly but its a very very small sample so far.

A word of advice - stay away from the List Management thread - apparently everyone is jumping ship next year - likely we will need to fold.

Let’s not underestimate the value of close wins.
Remember we are playing team around the same age demographic as us. And we are managing to get the job done. Not pretty granted, but at the moment they are great learning experiences.

 

[Diehard Saint]

It's far from doom and gloom. Im actually very optimistic about our future for what its worth. During that run of 5 or 6 games against the top 8 clubs and Sydney I was very pleased. I was buoyed by those performances.

My comment was really directed toward the general energy of some our players, who I think, aren't playing with the level of intensity and desperation we'd all hope for.

A win is a win but its hard to get excited about a win against what is effectively a VFL side. Particularly given some of our performances against the better sides.

We seem to play more an attractive style in the losses and can only grind out wins at the moment which is a bit of a concern.

Not a concern for me. We have been every bit as young, in some cases younger, than Bombers, Tigers and North. Some tired bodies late in the season after a seriously challenging fixture.

But you know what? We still managed to grind out wins instead of giving up. That’s a win for me for a young inexperienced team.

 

[BrutThough]

You sound like Gringo with your pancakes and waffles statement , I said there was another 16 that were as bad if not worse than him , what's so hard to understand about me saying that

Okay? Those 16 players are also irrelevant when I'm giving my thoughts about Windy's performance.

 

[BrutThough]

I thought Garcia & Hall were more impactful than Windy.

Hall is already one of our best. A Dalrymple special.

 

[Saints TV]

 

[g_TRAIN]

I thought Garcia & Hall were more impactful than Windy.

Windy did a ton of good defensive work. Not sure if you take that into account?