Essendon's massive following

[Dan26]

Eagle fan

That 86,000 was for a final remember. I doubt we could get that for a home and away game. That 55,000 for a friday night was probably the upper limit for a Dons-Eagles game, which would fill Colonial nicely (taking away the MCC members).

Canm you imagine the atmosphere ?

Pessimistic, Hawthorns support is reaonable, but your poor performance in the last 5 years hasn't helped. The people who have become Hawthorn suppoters in the 80's as kids are now getting old enough to but memberships, but what about all the 10 year old kids nowadays ? They don't want to barrack for Hawthorn.

While North have small support (similar to what Hawthorn had in the early 80's), a lot of the young kids are starting to barrack for North. This is not reflected in their attendance, becasue they are just young kids, but in about 10 years time, when they are in their early to mid 20's they will experience a surge like Hawthorns.

There is a very similar comparison, to North's success in the 90's, and Hawthorns success in the 80's, don't you agree ?

Essendon, though , courtesy of a 58 % win loss record over 100 years of football is the most popular club. I had a look at some stats, and Hawthorns all time win-loss ratio is about 47%.

Success back in the 20's , 30's and 40's can still carry through to today, remember. Look at Collingwood, for an example. About 50 % of people barrack for the same team as their parents, so Collingwoods premierships in 1927,28,29,30 still carry over some success to the modern day, attendance wise.

Hawthorn have no history of success to fall back on. Only the last 25 years. Essendon have a history of success not only from the last 25 years, but from the prevous 75 years too.

Just remember, there was only one club that won top spot on the AFL ladder three times in thr 1990's. That club was Essendon.

Hopefuly, there can be a few more Grand Final wins to fall back on, but the GF isn't necessarily the true measure of how good you are. See my other post on "Top spot should get more recognition"

 

[mk]

Richmond leave your club for dead when it comes to vocal support! There is nothing better than the Richmond army to get the blood flowing. Richmond and Collingwood have true die hard supporters. Essendon have screaming teenage girls who barrack for Matthew Lloyd and James Hird! You may have taken over from Collingwood in support terms but you have also taken over from Collingwood as the most hated club!

 

[Dan26]

Actually, I've always wanted to be the most hated club. Although I think Carlton are probably more hated to tell you the truth. It's an honour to be hated.

Richmond do have vocal support. A lot of blokes seem to barrack for the Tigers, giving them a mighty ROAR.

But the Essendon army creates something special. There are a lot of chicks that go for the Bombers, but lets face it MK, there's a ot of EVERYONE. Guys , girls, young, and old. The Bombers have a mighty Roar, as you would have noticed in 1999.

Although, I will give Collingwood some credit. You have a vocal following, and a very loyal one. Also a very large following.

Essendon fans were at their most rabid, and parochial I think prior to 1984, when Essendon hadn't won a flag in 20 years. At the time, Essendon supporters were considerd the loudest, and most intense supporters. Them we won flags in 84,85. Our support increased, (naturally), but due to our success, the parochialism died down, becasue we were so used to winning. But, over the last 10 years or so, the Bomber army has been back in full voice !!!

 

[Eagle_Fan]

Dan, doesn't it worry you that you've finished on top three times, for just the one flag? Especially since it's easier to go all the way from top spot.Whether you like it or not the premiership is still what's played for, and your record might almost suggest choking....

 

[Bomber]

MK - hahaha you make me laugh bringing up Richmond. Yes, richmond do have heaps of supporters - but when things are going all too well, where the hell are they? Richmonds supporters are generally all frontrunners, and its funny seeing them come out of the woodwork everytime they do - 95 was very funny. I knew people who never had much interest in footy, allofasudden 'tigers'!
hahaha makes you laugh.
At least if Essendon lose a game, our supporters wont turn on the team.
And it is an honor to be hated - and I hope we are the most hated team. You know why, Ess are hated because of success - it flatters us, same with collingwood. Carlscum on the other hand I hate, not directly because of success, but of those years of just buying premierships. They have struggled a bit ever since the draft introduction.

 

[Pessimistic]

I am not disputing that Essendon is the yardstick for victorian clubs at the moment. I am just stating that the bar is always rising and in five years time it may take 50,000 members to be relevant.

Essndon plays most of it's home games at Colonial where there is an effective cap on membership of about 35,000. Even if you continue to have 3-4 home games at the MCG nobody will buy a membership just for those games. You may have to create a MCG only membership but this will not be a 'bona fide' membership. I suspect, like West Coast and Adelaide you'll be boasting about the size of your waiting list in the future. But you'll risk annoying your fans who know you used to play all your games at the 'G'

Here's a simple fact: The AFL state that last year 'only' 16 games were over 52,000 ie too big for Colonial. The big irony is that the majority of those were essendon games, Yet Essendon quite happily moves off to Colonial.

Essendon (along with Bulldogs and saints)fans are now buying memberships through fear of being left out rather than positive thoughts towards the club. Remember the $110 membership just gets you into the food court at colonial, a seat is extra.

What is your reaction to the fact that Essendon has put a 'cap' on it's membership

Remember Hawthorn was the only Vic club to record an appreciable increase in attendance last year (8%)

But Hawthorn is appreciative that Essendon has moved from the MCG, leaving an opening for it to emulate Essendon's growth over the past few years. We will do that through providing top quality yet affordable football

Remember also that all takings now go to the home team so when Essendon Collingwood and Carlton fans turn up in numbers to hawthorn home games, most of that money flows back to Hawthorn. Even MCC members trigger a contribution when they attend a game

I realise we have a way to go but we are only four years on from 1996 (some people are still saying it's a flash in the pan)

The games I quoted may have been special occasions but they demonstrate Hawthorns potential drawing power.

Many polls of club alignment often put Hawthorn not that far behind the other clubs

Combine this with the best administration in the league (remember our success is despite the AFL, some clubs are definately 'favoured' by them) and this will all come true

By the way I expect a 10% member backlash this year against Hawthorn over waverley, but we will overcome that. Watch out for a 40% backlash against the saints, and the AFL moving to minimise the damage (eg no underestimation of attendances at Colonial)

Underestimation of attendances at waverley last year was a fact. The 'official' attendance against Carlton was 40,000 but I arrived late and had to sit right at the back under the scoreboard

Just as a last note. Essendon did the AFL a huge favour by providing the 'headline' act at colonial, yet they still gave you the huge salary cap fine, where's the gratitude ?

 

[Reggi]

Essendon supporters are just Collingwood supporters that can read and write.

-Jack Dyer

 

[Arch]

to eagle fan- does it worry you that you havent even been close to top spot since the early nineties, and that your club is still hanging on to past glory (ie team of the nineties- what crap) and that your only good players are old hacks who have jack squat left in their careers.
does it also worry you that malthouse has left and that the eagles are more likely than ever to totally suck this year.and does it also worry you that the eagles are THE most boring team to watch play, even if theyre winning.does it also worry you that evryone is gonna be laughing at those stupid new "uniforms" ?????
if your answer is no to those questions- then your even dumber than i thought.
enjoy 2000 if u can.

 

[Pessimistic]

Plus, Dan24, Commentators at the London Essendon v Hawthorn Game were surprised to find the chhers for Hawthorn much louder than the Essendon ones, this was just after El Sheeds said he wanted essendon to be the 'Man Utd of Aussie rules"

 

[bombers R second]

Crows probably have a larger following than Essendon does. Crows have more members. There are generally more fans at Crows v Essendon at Footy Park than Essendon v Crows at MCG. If Essendon get an 80,000 crowd blockbuster then only 45,000 fans would be bombers followers the rest follow the other club. When Crows play at Footy Park they get almost 45,000 all following them. They would get more if the games didn't sell out.

 

[Dan26]

Pessimistic, I don't remember Essendon putting a cap on their membership ?? Don't make stuff up. The stadium holds 52,000 people for crying out loud, and it is the second biggest AFL venue in the country ! We are also only playing smaller games there. It has also been stated that any games needed to be transferred will be done so. All our big games are at the MCG. Did you know this ?

The Bombers play only 9 games at Colonial, and 9 at the MCG. With one, possibly two being transferred, that will probably swith to 11-7 in favour of the MCG. Remember Essendon members VOTED for the move, taking into account we would still be playing our blockbuster games at the MCG.

Remember too, that a 55,000 game at the MCG equates to about 50,000 at Colonial, taking away the MCC members who don't contribut anything financially.

I'm sure the Hawks would love 18 games at Colonial and MCG (9 each), like the Bombers, but Essendon is the only club that can get such a good deal.

From a financial viewpoint, the deal is sensational too.

As for the Adelaide Crows, they share a one miilion population city with another team, and have no history, meaning not many people outside Adelaide barrack for them. Essendon has notoriously big support, in the Northern Territory, Queensland, and Western Australia. I doubt very much whether the Crows have more than a million supporters. Adelaide has about a million people, and that included people that don't care about football.

They fon't get 45,000 at Footy Park despite what you may think. In 1999, the biggest crowd at Football Park was 45,000 for Australia vs Ireland in International Rules. Most Crows games get in the high 30,000's and the low 40,000's. They do have great support though.

Although it's not hard to have big support, when you've got a whole friggin city barracking fpor you. They didn't earn that support, like Essendon have earnt their';s through success. Adelaide supporters were just there ready to jump aboard, when the club was formed in 1991.

Essendon have done their own survey, estimating Essendon's Australia wide following at 1.2 million, or thereabouts. That is an estimate, by the way

 

[Dan26]

Eagle Fan,

Let me address the issue of choking.

Please define choking. It seems to be the new buzz word whenevr a team loses. How can you simultaneously get 18 players all playing badly at the same time ? There are too many variables.

Choking is not playing well when you should play well. Let's look at 1998. The Bulldogs, clearly a better team than Adelaide, with a weeks rest and playing at the MCG, lose by 70 points. They were thrashed, all over the ground, by a very good, but inferior team. The Bulldogs choked.

Look at Essendon in 1999. The Bombers play well, and have 33 scoring shots to 24, and are up agaisnt an oponent, who is playing their best match of the year. Despite having 9 more scoring shots, they unluckily lose by a point. It's not like we didn't perform ! We had 9 more scorinfg shots for christs sake ! As for the Bulldogs, vs Adelaide in the 1998 preliminary final. Now there is a team that didn't perform (i.e choked)

Should Essendon have beaten Carlton ? Of course. But it doesn't mean they choked. Otherwise, any time an upset happens, a team must choke, if people beleive that crap.

Essendon has been the best team of the year 3 times in the 1990's. Eagle fan the only reason players amd coaches strive to win the GF is becasue of all the recognition it receives. If top spot got more recognition, then YOU, and everyone else would want to win it more. It has been openly stated many times that finishing above 15 teams over 22 weeks is harder than winning a 4 week tournament. Do you honestly think that the Coach and Management wouldn't want to six 6 months of hard work rewarded instead of ignored ? Of course they would want ot see it rewrded. Who wouldn't. (in addition to still having the Grand Final).

Ive written to Wayne Jackson about this and he responded, asking me to write back some more. I have done so, and (hope, hope), maybe this can get the ball rolling to top spot getting more recognition.

Just to prove were not getting off topic, those 3 "home and away" premierships in the 1990's for the Bombers are a factor in their large support.

 

[Bomber]

Pessemistic - u stated:
"But Hawthorn is appreciative that Essendon has moved from the MCG, leaving an opening for it to emulate Essendon's growth over the past few years. We will do that through providing top quality yet affordable football"

haha - top quality footy like your senior side played against the Footscray reserves in NZ? hahaha

And whoever compared Ess to Adelaids crows - You Idiot! (quote - john newman) A two team city, with everyone who doesnt support the other team supporting you, and you just beat us! Gee, lots of hard work there eh!

 

[Eagle_Fan]

Hey Dan- don't take things so seriously! I was only kidding with the whole choking thing (I mean look at us in '91 for a prime example). I fully agree with most of what you say about Essendon, I think they should be real contenders this year. You've got to admit that the '99 cup was yours for the taking though..... =)

Arch. Firstly, Malthouse was and is overated. Who wouldn't have had success with Jakovich, Matera, Kemp, McKenna, Mainwaring and co., all at their prime, in one team? It's not a popular opinion over here, but it's what I believe. But like you said, those days are over, and I'm the first to admit it. Last year, we lost over 550 games experience and 6 premiership medals when just three guys retired. (and that's happened the last few years) Then we lost the 300+ game coach. Times have changed, but to say that we now have no good players is just crap.
The Eagles have entered that transition phase, but so far it has yet to affect us to the extent it did Essendon and Carlton when they missed the 8. I assume you're not in WA, so I guess you don't see the young kids we've got over here. But be warned, they are good. Not ready to bring home the cup just yet, but still good. We believe in producing great players and keeping them, rather than just recycling unwanted players to achieve our success.

With regards to the jumpers, TELL ME ABOUT IT! I written to the Eagles heaps of times, both before and after they were launched, but to no avail, and now even the WA public have fallen for them too!

Finally, the team of the decade. That's a whole other topic I don't have time to post, but out of curiosity, who do you think it is and why? (Start a new topic if you want)

Despite all that, I still think my Baby Eagles may surprise a few people this year.

 

[Pessimistic]

Dan24, Don't take my word for it, ring Essendon and ask how many Essendon members can get into colonial at once, given that at least 10,000 will be corporates, and ask how many home games actually will be transferred, as the AFL says perhaps only one. And ask if the colonial deal is financially great for essendon, does it mean essendon fans will pay more each year (of course it does)

As I said, don't take my word for it

PS have a look at the post about how badly eagles fans are treat now there is a waiting list for memberships. That could be your future. Except the eagles have an excuse as the ground is small. IE there's no MCG round the corner

 

[Pessimistic]

Colonial stadium document
http://www.afl.com.au/lib/acrobat/cs_info.pdf

This shows that some 34,000 seats will be left over after corporates, AFL members so there will be limit on memberships for clubs playing the majority of home games at colonial. This figure is not hard and fast as essendon have negotiated up to 4,000 of the 6,000 AFL members seats, there will be some mebers in corporate areas. But remeber that 6,000 of the 34,000 will be available asgeneral admission, ie not guarunteed season seats for essendon members

Hence there will be a de facto cap on club membership at colonial of approx 35,000

The number of walk-up seats at MCG is 40,000

 

[Dan26]

Pessimistic, please remember we are only playing our smaller games there. We still play 9 games at the "G".

You can't really comment until the season starts and we can see for ourselves.

Suffice to say a 52,000 seat stadium will be plenty for Essendon smaller home games. You mention "corporates", but they take up part of the crowd at the MCG too. You have to take that into account.

That 6,000 general admissiion seats is a MINIMUM. There will always be more than this. At Optus Oval, there were only about 3,500 general admission seats. (And remember to take away MCC members from the projected attendance)

Playing 9 games at the MCG (Probably 10, or 11) gives the Bomber fans the chance to see their team every second week at the "G", and nearly every other week (9 games), at the very large in its own right, state of the art Colonial stadium.

P.S. Did playing at Vic Park for 100 years effect Collingwoods support ?
Of course not. They had massive support becasue of their success.

Melbourne Football Club has played for 100 years ast the biggest and most acccessible ground and it hasn't helped their support one little bit.

Success breeds supporters. This is a PERFECT example.

But like I said, we will have to wait until the season starts, to see what the crowds are like for ourselves.

People say Colonial is a "corporate" stadium. That's rubbish. At least if you take comments like that literally. You'd think no one else was allowed to go ! Essendon, on average, will always play more games at the MCG than anywhere else.

 

[Bomber]

Essendons home games at CS for this year are as follows:
Adelaide, North, WCE, Freo, Haw, Foots
I dont think the small capacity will effect those games, with the exception of maybe the North game, possibly due to a high number of neutral supporters rocking up (should both sides have similar seasons to last - but then the game will more than likely be moved).

The issue I see with the small capacity of CS is in 20 years time, when a few Vic sides will be extinct, and crowds will be up. I think the AFL is trying to mirror soccer, where the grounds are small, but most people watch the game on TV.
That works well for soccer, as u can see virtually the full game via tv. Aussie Rules is different, it is much better being there. TV is too restrictive, ie when a side is kicking out, or has the ball in the back pocket, you automatically look two kicks downfield to see the movement of players, how space and lose men are created. TV only shows the kick then the pack, doesnt show each play, how it was setup etc. No atmosphere either.
What will happen if people cant get to see live games? Will a lot of interest be lost?

About 70,000 would have been fine for CS - if they are gonna spend as much as they did, they may as well have done it properly.

 

[Grendel]

Dont know which Essendon fan it was that said at least they dont turn on their own players. tell that to Salmon in the last game he played for them.
And as to another post about them not choking you have to play before you choke. Tell me if Alessio played against Carlton?
No Long, no Essendon.

 

[Pessimistic]

Dan24, Please let me elaborate on my point, you seemed to have missed it.
An essendon membership gets you admission to 11 home games, usually seven at colonial and 4 at the MCG. It only gives you $2 discount on the other 8 away games, 5 of which are at the MCG Also, as the membership approaches 35,000 you will need to also buy a season reserved seat (which will give you a priority on reserved seats at 'away' games)

Once all these reserved seats are gone, you are faces with a $110 ticket which only gives you free access to four home games at the MCG and $2 discount on the 5 away games there - the value is just 4x$13.50 and 5x$2 or just $64. The ticket is less than useless at the colonial stadium because you will need to get there before alll the general public because all but 6000 seats will be reserved. It your games were still at the MCG there would still be some 40,000 seats available. This is why Essendon has put a limit on it's membership growth to about 35,000. My guess is the club won't care because it's getting a lot more money out of it's supporters for the same product.

You mention that games would be transferred to the MCG. This may be true but why move to colonial in the first place ? Why not state that you will try a 'few' games there and see how it works out ?

You did the AFL a big favour by giving colonial some credibility.

I think what is likely to happen in the future is what the AFL has intended, that big games (ie between victorian clubs) will be at the G and smaller ones (especially against interstate teams) will be at colonial

The notion of Home and Away may disappear in that members, corporates etc will go to a vic v vic game as if it was a home game for both clubs. So it there continues to be a 10 - 6 mix of vic to interstate clubs you'd be more likely to play more games at the MCG (eg the last Essendon v Hawks game at MCG drew some 60,000 when both were 'out' of the finals -the AFL and MCC areas were relatively empty)This would probably happen in 3-5 years so the cap I talked about wouldn't be a problem.

But why not do it now ? Imagine how attractive a medallion membership would be if they thought only games v interstate clubs would be shown at colonial - not at all
Saints, North or Doggies games aren't a huge draw either. They needed essendon, carlton or collingwood.

That is, my prediction is only games v interstate teams will be at colonial

 

[Dan26]

Pessimistic, you make a fair point. I actually voted for the MCG. But I can see the good in 9 games at each of the two best footy stadiums in the country.

I'm an AFL member actually, and we've got good seats wherever we go.

We may have to wait a couple of years to see what the crowds at Colonial are like. I mean, you can't really comment yet. We will have to wait and see.

The 6,000 MINIMUM general admission (probably anywhere betwen 6,000 and 10,000) will be plenty, for the games we will be playing there. So what of the MCG has 40,000 ? They don't get used up anyway, and Essendon will still be playing 9 games there (probably 10 or 11 regardless)

Not every Essendon member that buys seats are buying reserved seats. Some only go to a few matches a year, and will just rock up. Obviously the club will make more money out of reserved seats, but EVERY club encourages this. Hawthorn encourages their members to buy reserved seats too.

Essendon had a strong reserved seat allocation when we were AT THE MCG. Members have been buying reserved seats for a few years now, even at the spacious MCG. There is a growing market for watching footy in comfort. And there is still room, to NOT buy a reserved seat and sit in any of the 6,000 plus (like I said, probably more, cause it's a minimum)areas in the ground.

As I said, Optus only has just over 3,000 general admission seats, and sometimes they didn't get used up. Of a 25,000 crowd, less and less these days are general admission patrons. More are being converted into members.

Potentially up to 10,000 (or even more) general admission setas is good in a 52,000 seat stadium.

I can't wait for the season !!!!

Can you just say that we will have to wait and see. Until the crowds start coming in, we won't know.

Moving on..........

 

[Bomber]

AFL membership is gold! best investment Ive ever made!!
are u full yet? I got full two years ago - not its like a 20 year waiting list to be restricted!
U get best of both worlds, your as essendon member, but get to go to 30 games anywhere!

 

[Eagle_Fan]

Sounds great. Guess it's not worth it from over here though.

Do members actually get to vote on club issues at Essendon? What a novel idea! Maybe someone should suggest it to the West Coast management..... We have no input WHAT-SO-EVER into what happens. Like the new jumpers. They asked local primary school kids, but not long term members. The club-member interaction is about the one thing I'm jealous of Victorian clubs about. I realise it's more important for clubs still struggling to stay alive (not Ess, don't respond!), but even so.

If the Eagles are an indication of how AFL will be in the future, then we're all in a lot of trouble. [Off field only of course. I still adore my team]

 

[samsgal]

Dan 24 you say Essendon have the most supporters. Hey well done are they paid up members? no? oh ok so they could be good old band wagon jumpers.

memberships = money
money = long term survival of the club

I would rather my club have more paid up members than any club in the AFL.

 

[Dan26]

Samsgal, let me tell you a little bit about paid-up members :

You can only really judge membership taking into account the number of supporters you have. Essendon and Collingwood, with their massive support convert about 1 in 12 people to members.

Now clubs like Hawthorn,and the Kangaroos, covert a much higher percentage. Hawthorn about 1 in 6 or 7, and the Kangaroos about 1 in 5.

Carlton are a bit like Collingwood and Essendon. They convert about 1 in 12, or so.

Why ?

Here's why.

If your club has been threatended by extinction, then supporters buy memberships in greater numbers. Hawthorn membership jumped as soon as they were threatened with the merger. And the Kangaroos (the club with the highest proportion), have ALWAYS been under threat.

Essendon, Collinwood and Carlton are not, and will never be under threat. Hypothetically, if they were under threat, their memberships would jump to 50,000 plus !

Before the failed merger attempt involving Hawthorn, the Hawks membership was a modest 13,000, 14,000, 15,000 or so (something like that)

But as soon as their survival is threatened. BOOM !

Same with the Bulldogs. They have over 20,000 members, which is VERY high proportion, becasue they don't have many supporters. They are always under threat of extinction. They have been for years.

There is your answer.

Essendon still as massive membership, and huge support everywhere.