Essendon's Problem Doesn't Exist - Dank

[mxett]

Everything is speculation at this stage.

Unsurprisingly you are happy to entertain speculation that basically portrays Reid as negligent in his professional duty....yet you completely disregard any speculation that leads to a senior coach doing 'whatever it takes' to get an advantage.

Disagree

 

[PieBeast]

mxett vs reality, sanity and intelligence

you go boy

 

[Snake_Baker]

This thread is screaming for an obi-wan photoshop.

​

 

[mxett]

mxett vs reality, sanity and intelligence

you go boy

Surely youre not claiming to know about reality, sanity and intelligence

 

[mantis]

6 - 0 .

 

[15hodge]

It might be a poor analogy granted.

I suppose my point is that if you are advised by a professional and choose to ignore it. Who is to blame?

I agree. Poor analogy aside, I think it will be very interesting to hear the facts about doc reids involvement. I think some Essendon supporters here want the bus to arrive because they fear his testimony could make things even worse for Essendon.

 

[doppleganger]

However, If contrary to the leaked email, he didnt let Reid decide on the supplements, or if he ignored Reids advice about supplement selection then Hird should go.

Am I being clear enough yet?

Crystal.

I wonder if Ziggy's report will touch on the relationship between coach and senior doc?

 

[Frank Grimes]

Hang are we taking Danks word on this one or not ..... I can't remember as we flop between calling him a liar or basing an argument on something he's said.

If people take Danks word or not, it is clear that someone or multiple people in this whole affair are telling porkies with the inconsistencies and changing of stories.

It's clear that Dank can not be trusted with his word. I think it's becoming clear that a letter or e-mail giving Dank permission does not exist.

 

[Chameleon75]

6 - 0 .

No one can accuse you of not being factual.

 

[tigerdan]

Is there anyone out there who thinks Essendon wont get busted under S0 if they get around S2?

While it's amusing to debate what should happen to Hird or Reid, surely the issue is what the players were taking. I don't think anyone is really debating whether or not they took AOD.

 

[DonsRule]

This is actually garbage. I agree it looks very bad for Essendon at the moment but in your analogy a good doctor would advice you how to correctly administer heroin to avoid infections, cross contamination and aneurysms, on the basis of harm minimisation.

Your second point is correct because we have no information regarding the docs correspondence with the board or the manner in which he was "frozen out".

There are clear questions that the doc will need to answer. Until we get some answers, I wouldn't be throwing the good doctor under a bus either.

I agree things don't look great atm, my main issue is, biased Essendon supporter talking, are the media just building the rift between the 2 to be much more than it really is? Not that there were not issues that should have been handled better in hindsight. How often do people have suspicions of wrong doing, if you suspect a to worker of stealing from the company, what does the company do without proof? Do you sack them just on suspicions, because then you're often in for wrongful dismissal, there are issues that need to be sorted, but until we know the whole story, I'm not going to let anyone at the club hang out to dry, as bad as things look.

 

[Frank Grimes]

I guess you got from the article essendon is all sweet?

Of course it is. Dank himself says so. You can trust him.

 

[upnsmoke]

6 - 0 .

I know you guys have been craving finals for the last decade and all...

But drug scandal aside, the season is a marathon... Back in 2011, Pies beat everyone minus cats, and I tell ya, the dominance all season isn't satisfying knowing they couldn't win the flag...

Also you guys peaked round 10 last season... You were 9-1 weren't you's?


6-0 means good start... That's all.... Again drug scandal aside. But fact is bombers playing well.. Drug scandal aside...

 

[DonsRule]

I know you guys have been craving finals for the last decade and all...

But drug scandal aside, the season is a marathon... Back in 2011, Pies beat everyone minus cats, and I tell ya, the dominance all season isn't satisfying knowing they couldn't win the flag...

Also you guys peaked round 10 last season... You were 9-1 weren't you's?


6-0 means good start... That's all.... Again drug scandal aside. But fact is bombers playing well.. Drug scandal aside...

Considering the last 10 or so years, I'll be happy with winning a final. Yes, certain scandal aside.

 

[Chameleon75]

If people take Danks word or not it is clear that someone or multiple people in this whole affair are telling porkies with the inconsistencies and changing of stories.

It's clear that Dank can not be trusted with his word. I think it's becoming clear that a letter or e-mail giving Dank permission does not exist.

No one in this saga is being 100% truthful or dishonest, rather there's fuzzy logic.

 

[15hodge]

I agree things don't look great atm, my main issue is, biased Essendon supporter talking, are the media just building the rift between the 2 to be much more than it really is? Not that there were not issues that should have been handled better in hindsight. How often do people have suspicions of wrong doing, if you suspect a to worker of stealing from the company, what does the company do without proof? Do you sack them just on suspicions, because then you're often in for wrongful dismissal, there are issues that need to be sorted, but until we know the whole story, I'm not going to let anyone at the club hand out to dry, as bad as things look.

I'd stick by my club too, but not individuals at it. All that Essendon supporters can do now is wait for the investigation to run its course and face the facts as they come to hand. At this point it looks like senior management will play dumb? We didn't know it was illegal? Obviously that just doesn't cut it and heads should roll. The real problems here go beyond PED use to the long term health of players administered with products not approved for human use. It's seems as bad as bad can get.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Crystal.

I wonder if Ziggy's report will touch on the relationship between coach and senior doc?

It's an internal report commissioned by the the AFL for Essendon, isn't it?I don't know who set it up.

I do know that many of these things are set up to buy time and avoid the obvious.

But Save VCA’s Dawkins told Crikey that the six month process involving six formal meetings and two day long consultations had achieved “nothing.”
“The war of attrition continues. We have a ‘nothing’ review which will buy the University another 6 months as they consult about their consultation, by which time VCAM will be so far gone people will start to wonder what’s left to save. It’s a highly effective strategy by Vice Chancellor Glyn Davis which is aided by silence from Education Minister Julia Gillard, Arts Minister Peter Garrett and Victorian Arts Minister Peter Batchelor.”

http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/05/13/ziggys-vca-review-fails-to-impress/

 

[Badesumofu]

I actually liked that the journalist didn't ask about S0 specifically. The interview as it is tells us what we need to know.

If it does turn out that Essendon systematically injected players with AOD, then personally I don't see how Hird can keep his job or players can avoid bans. Ignorance is not a defence. Hird himself has said that he takes full responsibility for what the football department does. Ultimately I think the buck has to stop with the senior coach. At best, he is guilty of gross negligence. If it was Hawthorn, I'd want the coach sacked in that situation.

If he takes full responsibility, surely that means he investigates for himself whether the substances being used are legal. Without knowing all the details, it seems that Essendon officials believed what they wanted to believe.

Also, incidentally, saying that Dank helped Geelong to win a premiership by legitimate (at the time) means is not defamatory to Dank. Even if it's not true.

 

[DonsRule]

I'd stick by my club too, but not individuals at it. All that Essendon supporters can do now is wait for the investigation to run its course and face the facts as they come to hand. At this point it looks like senior management will play dumb? We didn't know it was illegal? Obviously that just doesn't cut it and heads should roll. The real problems here go beyond PED use to the long term health of players administered with products not approved for human use. It's seems as bad as bad can get.

I know this is just going to come off as well, ignoring all the facts, but I kinda sense too, there are plenty in the media that know more, about things that could be 'good news' for Essendon, but are choosing to leave it to build the story. It's hardly a sensationalist story if, they

I know too, that clearly, WADA, class AOD 9604 in S0, so it's a big no no.

I'm thinking Dank is very dodgy, and in hindsight should never have been at the club.

Probably very defensive of Hird too, nothing in any of the time he has need a player has he been the kind of person who's purposely break any rules. Don't know that he had ever really been linked to doing anythings wrong (Okay, there is that Scott McLaren thing, but I think that was an on the spot error in judgement).

I think when Essendon announced this, I knew the media weren't going to be kind on it 'Essendon are doing the right think, they put their had up' isn't exactly a sensationalist, make sales kind of story, I think, whether prompted or not it is positive that the club got on the front foot and decided to take action.

Now, I get to a little bit of hope....but....

I'm just wondering if Dank dubbed the club, just had enough to dismiss him, did so, now are starting to find out more on what he was upto, should have had mechanisms in place to catch it out but didn't, things can go undetected for years in the corporate world. Most often, best way to deal with it is just to have them fired, and move on unscaved, big business rarely likes it's dirty linen in public view, even if not nothing illegal on their part, it looks bad if the company was unable to pick up someone doing the wrong thing, procedures somewhere broke down. That probably is the CEO's role though really.

Had heard that by the end of it, Dank may be in a lot of trouble for fraud, and well, we're seeing his changing story.

I have no idea really. Just keep thinking there is more that is known by some than is being published and riding the roller coaster that this thing has been, lots of ups and downs.

I don't even believe the players have *knowing* done anything wrong, just that they were caught out.

I think though, with what has been released, plenty are going to have us guilty, even if cleared. Suspicion, at the end of the day, this will all end in court.

 

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

Notice Dank mentioned compounding conditions? Drugs like AOD are approved for therapeutic use in Australia if sourced from a licensed compounding chemist. Whether this defence will fly or not remains to be seen, but I think that's what they'll go with if necessary.

SD: I rang ASADA and said that this was a preparation that was already on the market, plus this was going to be formulated under compounding conditions, so from that point of view we were already dealing with a product on the market.

DW: What was ASADA's response?

SD: She was happy with that.

 

[mxett]

Notice Dank mentioned compounding conditions? Drugs like AOD are approved for therapeutic use in Australia if sourced from a licensed compounding chemist. Whether this defence will fly or not remains to be seen, but I think that's what they'll go with if necessary.

No doubt this was Danks tact and why all he wanted to hear from WADA was that AOD wasnt banned under S2 and referred him to ASADA.

It will be very interesting to see how this ends up. Given Essendon have openly approached ASADA, and have apeeared to be totally transparent with them regarding AOD use, I can't see the affected players getting more than six months bans. They may even be applied in the off season.

 

[the distributer]

I'm just wondering if Dank dubbed the club, just had enough to dismiss him, did so, now are starting to find out more on what he was upto, should have had mechanisms in place to catch it out but didn't, things can go undetected for years in the corporate world. Most often, best way to deal with it is just to have them fired, and move on unscaved, big business rarely likes it's dirty linen in public view, even if not nothing illegal on their part, it looks bad if the company was unable to pick up someone doing the wrong thing, procedures somewhere broke down. That probably is the CEO's role though really.

It's 100% certain the players were duped into using it IMO. (assuming they did)

But i find it very difficult to believe Dank worked alone.

 

[mxett]

It's 100% certain the players were duped into using it IMO. (assuming they did)

But i find it very difficult to believe Dank worked alone.

I think dank convinced Essendon AOD wasnt banned under s2 and wasnt caught by s0 because it can be legally prescribed in Australia under specific conditions. Hardly deliberate cheating but an epic failure in due diligence.

 

[15hodge]

Seems to me that Dank realised years ago that there was a loophole in the schedule that would allow the use of emerging pharmacological substances under certain conditions. It would be a very lucrative deal for the middle man to supply these to clubs as seen by the bill at Essendon prompting them to sack Dank. He may have done this at other clubs in other codes. WADA closed the loophole in 2011 so Dank had players at Essendon in 2012 sign a waiver document (with the argeement of senior management and coaches at the club) to cover his arse over administering S0 prohibited substances. That doesnt cover Essendons arse. Essendon failed in their due diligence and allowed this to occur. It seems the club make no attempt to investigate the supplements given to players, or they knew exactly what they were. I wonder how far from the truth I am when we know all the facts.

 

[sr36]

I think we're going to get away with it.