Essendon's Talls

[Ants]

Uh yes, but a player on the outter selection wise (Cheis Dawes), a player who wanted to leave to go "home" (Mitch Clark is from Melbourne yeh? ) another player who wanted to return home (Jolly is from Victoria so it's ok) and a complete Knobhead who was thrust out of his club faster than a premature ejaculation nasal spray add (Fevola).

Now I see your suggestions and raise you these
Cameron Wood (First round draft pick to Brisbane returned to Victoria for pick 14)
Robbie Warnock (injury plagued despite showing some promise was packaged up with pick 69 for picks 24, 56 and 72)
Mark Seaby (packaged up with 28 & 55 in return for Amon Buchanan and picks 22 & 118)
Shane Mumford (was rookie listed and thrown a big wad of cash and Geelong still received pick 28)
Jon Griffin (was off loaded for pick 61 - only cause Adelaide had paid overs for big Sauce Jacobs with picks 37 & 61)
David Hale (even commanded a compensation pick and a late round sweetener with #71)

Should I continue?

We could add Jolly (to Sydney), Ottens, Mark Thompson, BROOKS, Paul Johnson, Meesen, as other rucks and compare what they went for versus how proven they were. Bellchambers is 24, when first ruck would be up there with the best rucks for hit outs, kicks goals when forward, takes contested marks, and according to an opposition supporter on the last page would be #1 ruck now at six clubs and borderline/equal #1 ruck at a few more.

But heh, he's not worth much......

 

[Wild Bill]

Daniher - pick 1. He and Boyd doing similar things in the under 18.

Carlisle - pick 1. Having an incredible year - looks like being one of the premier defenders for the next 10 years.

Ryder - pick 3-6 - at 25 he is a huge talent - more consistency needed but is as damaging as any ruckmen when on. Looks to be at his best when given the number 1 ruck role.

Bellchambers - pick 10-13. Good start but has faded as the year has progressed. Should make it back in for the WCE game but with Ryder's form as the number 1 ruck no guarantees to play the year out in the seniors.

Hurley - 10-13 - Still looks lost as forward. Runs under the ball far too much, does not take enough marks or kick enough goals. Stocks could rise if given a decent run in the backline. Looks like a natural defender.

Hooker - pick 20-25. Way overs with the 2 2nd rounders. Essendon won't get that offer again. Solid taking the 3rd forward. Carlisle form has been a great result for Hooker.

Pears - pick 23-28. A great talent that will have a lot of interest at years year. A bidding war could lower the pick.

Gumbleton - pick 30-35. Is going to struggle to come back into the side without injury. Another that will be looking for opportunities at the end of the year.

 

[eth-dog]

Surprisingly good post there.

 

[the distributer]

Daniher - pick 1. He and Boyd doing similar things in the under 18.

Carlisle - pick 1. Having an incredible year - looks like being one of the premier defenders for the next 10 years.

Ryder - pick 3-6 - at 25 he is a huge talent - more consistency needed but is as damaging as any ruckmen when on. Looks to be at his best when given the number 1 ruck role.

Bellchambers - pick 10-13. Good start but has faded as the year has progressed. Should make it back in for the WCE game but with Ryder's form as the number 1 ruck no guarantees to play the year out in the seniors.

Hurley - 10-13 - Still looks lost as forward. Runs under the ball far too much, does not take enough marks or kick enough goals. Stocks could rise if given a decent run in the backline. Looks like a natural defender.

Hooker - pick 20-25. Way overs with the 2 2nd rounders. Essendon won't get that offer again. Solid taking the 3rd forward. Carlisle form has been a great result for Hooker.

Pears - pick 23-28. A great talent that will have a lot of interest at years year. A bidding war could lower the pick.

Gumbleton - pick 30-35. Is going to struggle to come back into the side without injury. Another that will be looking for opportunities at the end of the year.

Carlisle isn't worth pick 1 mate, no one in their right mind would pay pick 1 for a defender, pick 7-10 IMO.

Daniher pick 1 (probably more than pick 1, say pick 1 and a late first rounder) no brainer, not often a gun KF comes along.

Ryder i'd price around 7-12, loads of talent but inconsistent, not worth a prime pick IMO.

Agree with Bellchambers.

Hurley i think is worth more than 10-13, i'd price him around 6-10, worth more than Carlisle IMO, i think he will improve as a KF over the next 2 seasons if given the chance.

Gumbys probably worth more than pick 30, i think someone would roll the dice with a late first rounder-early second.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

Any supporter rating their own players, particularly fringe players, more often over rate their own - check out this thread & shake your head.

I don't disagree. The bias and delusion generally cuts both ways.

Common is the scene on BF where trading multi expendable players or picks will somehow net you a great player or pick; shit player + shit player = gold. Despite the fact these are never going to happen. (well not since Freo learnt the ropes .)

 

[Kaiser Powser]

Daniher - pick 1. He and Boyd doing similar things in the under 18.

Carlisle - pick 1. Having an incredible year - looks like being one of the premier defenders for the next 10 years.

Ryder - pick 3-6 - at 25 he is a huge talent - more consistency needed but is as damaging as any ruckmen when on. Looks to be at his best when given the number 1 ruck role.

Bellchambers - pick 10-13. Good start but has faded as the year has progressed. Should make it back in for the WCE game but with Ryder's form as the number 1 ruck no guarantees to play the year out in the seniors.

Hurley - 10-13 - Still looks lost as forward. Runs under the ball far too much, does not take enough marks or kick enough goals. Stocks could rise if given a decent run in the backline. Looks like a natural defender.

Hooker - pick 20-25. Way overs with the 2 2nd rounders. Essendon won't get that offer again. Solid taking the 3rd forward. Carlisle form has been a great result for Hooker.

Pears - pick 23-28. A great talent that will have a lot of interest at years year. A bidding war could lower the pick.

Gumbleton - pick 30-35. Is going to struggle to come back into the side without injury. Another that will be looking for opportunities at the end of the year.

Pretty good ranges IMO.

The funny thing is is that Hooker is producing far better footy than ever before. But I don't disagree with your ranges. The offer last year was very generous. Yet I think Cale was desperately underated on BF, especiallty when he was offered for Caddy with pick 19, this was met with large amounts of outrage from the BF experts, but I still think it was a reasonable offer at the time.

 

[eth-dog]

Right now I'd take Hooker and Kav over Caddy

 

[Wild Bill]

Carlisle isn't worth pick 1 mate, no one in their right mind would pay pick 1 for a defender, pick 7-10 IMO.

Daniher pick 1 (probably more than pick 1, say pick 1 and a late first rounder) no brainer, not often a gun KF comes along.

Ryder i'd price around 7-12, loads of talent but inconsistent, not worth a prime pick IMO.

Agree with Bellchambers.

Hurley i think is worth more than 10-13, i'd price him around 6-10, worth more than Carlisle IMO, i think he will improve as a KF over the next 2 seasons if given the chance.

Gumbys probably worth more than pick 30, i think someone would roll the dice with a late first rounder-early second.

Carlisle at 21 is set to become an All Australain. A gun CHB that can go forward and kick goals. pick 7-10 would be an out and out steal.

Would be interested to hear from the Essendon supporters - if you could only keep one of Hurley and Carlise who gets your vote??

 

[Ambrosia]

Carlisle isn't worth pick 1 mate, no one in their right mind would pay pick 1 for a defender, pick 7-10 IMO.

Pick one's value really depends on the draft.

For instance I wouldn't have traded Carlisle for pick 1 last year and that was before he had a breakout season.

PS Carlisle can definitely play forward.

 

[vast]

My 2 cents.

Bellchambers, wont be traded by us. He is very much a required player as far as essendon is concerned.

A) Someone would have to offer him more than he is worth for him to request a trade

B) Essendon if essendon does agree with a request from Tom, they will ask for a high pick (around 10) in return.

So I feel it will be very unlikely to happen for these reasons.

The only players who could go would be pears and gumbleton, if the offers come.

Cant see anyone offering anything better then a 2nd rounder for those 2 though, that may change by the end of the season.

 

[Silvagnis]

Player ...........Bigfooty opinion............. Actual result/offer

Lovett .............30-40 range ...............first round pick (16)

Hooker .............3rd rounder if lucky .........Picks 25 and 26 (2 x early 2nd round picks)

Forgive me if I don't listen to the Bigfooty economists. BF is notorious for overrating draft picks. The facts are; (aside from Mummy who was poached) even semi-decent rucks go for quite high picks. If Essendon were to part with TBC, it would be for a high price, or quite simply they would not to it, as he has not requested a trade nor is he excess to requirements.

Pears and Gumby on the other hand...

Josh Kennedy and McGlynn were traded for unders. Better deal than trading a first round pick for McLean and first and Henderson for Fevola. WC didn't even get pick one for Judd who was uncontracted.

Bellchambers doesn't have a contract. That lessens Essendon's bargaining power. You can take what we got for Jacobs, Freo got for Warnock and Geelong got for Mumford. That's three actual trades for younger rucks.

Pies were desperate for Jolly to complete their flag side.

If a player says they want out to join Carlton (Laidler), Sydney (Kennedy), Adelaide (Jacobs) or Collingwood (Ball), then clubs generally let them get to their club of choice. And if they're smarter than Lyon, they take what they can get for a uncontracted player.

GWS, Collingwood and Port are possibly the only clubs in the market for a ready made and number one ruck. The Pies will hold onto their first because they now have Grundy and Witts. Rest of the AFL have a ruck or rucks, so the demand mightn't be that great. Clubs prefer to draft and develop their own players if the price is a first round pick.

Carlton might be more willing to part with a ruck for a player or for a pick in the twenties. Don't see us holding onto three number one rucks.

Your supporters only want a first round pick to add to your midfield. You say picks are overrated, yet you'd be laughing if you got a Wines, Vlastuin, Stringer, Mayes or Menzel for Bellchambers. Two first round mids would add to Ryder and Daniher holding down the ruck and forward/ruck positions.

 

[Ambrosia]

Hooker - pick 20-25. Way overs with the 2 2nd rounders. Essendon won't get that offer again. Solid taking the 3rd forward. Carlisle form has been a great result for Hooker.



Gumbleton - pick 30-35. Is going to struggle to come back into the side without injury. Another that will be looking for opportunities at the end of the year.

I think you're underrating Hooker. He takes the 2nd best forward every week and has shown he can play on the best forward as well.

We'd get more for Gumby because of his ability to pinch hit in the ruck. There isn't many 200cm CHF with Gumby's aerobic ability in the AFL

 

[TigerTime88]

My 2 cents.

Bellchambers, wont be traded by us. He is very much a required player as far as essendon is concerned.

A) Someone would have to offer him more than he is worth for him to request a trade

B) Essendon if essendon does agree with a request from Tom, they will ask for a high pick (around 10) in return.

So I feel it will be very unlikely to happen for these reasons.

The only players who could go would be pears and gumbleton, if the offers come.

Cant see anyone offering anything better then a 2nd rounder for those 2 though, that may change by the end of the season.

I would say ruckman rightly or wrongly hold a higher value and dons would be justified in asking for a pick between 10-15.

 

[Wild Bill]

I think you're underrating Hooker. He takes the 2nd best forward every week and has shown he can play on the best forward as well.

We'd get more for Gumby because of his ability to pinch hit in the ruck. There isn't many 200cm CHF with Gumby's aerobic ability in the AFL

Hooker is a soild foot soldier. He is dour like Zac Dawson and has a role to play. But skills and decsion making will limit him to a middle range defender. Would be amazed if a 1st round offer was made for him.

Roll the dice with Gumby - he has had 10 games injury free. He needs to stay injury free for a while longer for his stocks to rise. Big risk for potential reward. Not sure that equates to an early draft pick.

 

[vast]

Hooker is a soild foot soldier. He is dour like Zac Dawson and has a role to play. But skills and decsion making will limit him to a middle range defender. Would be amazed if a 1st round offer was made for him.

Roll the dice with Gumby - he has had 10 games injury free. He needs to stay injury free for a while longer for his stocks to rise. Big risk for potential reward. Not sure that equates to an early draft pick.

Just a technicality but Gumby has been injury free since the middle of last year. Pretty much played every game from the mid way mark of the vfl season last year.

Hooker has improved his decision making and as a result his disposal very much this year, but yeah prob a late first rounder at very best.

 

[eth-dog]

Hooker is a soild foot soldier. He is dour like Zac Dawson and has a role to play. But skills and decsion making will limit him to a middle range defender. Would be amazed if a 1st round offer was made for him.

Roll the dice with Gumby - he has had 10 games injury free. He needs to stay injury free for a while longer for his stocks to rise. Big risk for potential reward. Not sure that equates to an early draft pick.

Hooker's average DE this season is 82.5%. Either he's making good decisions or his skills have are better than you think

 

[Ambrosia]

Hooker is a soild foot soldier. He is dour like Zac Dawson and has a role to play. But skills and decsion making will limit him to a middle range defender. Would be amazed if a 1st round offer was made for him.
.

Yeah I wasn't really disagreeing with Hooker's trade value more pointing out that he's never played as a third tall. It wouldn't be worth trading Hooker because he is performing his role excellently (leading the league in intercept marks) but due to his limitations isn't going to get a lot at the trade table.

 

[Ambrosia]

Hooker's average DE this season is 82.5%. Either he's making good decisions or his skills have are better than you think

He is a safe ball user but due to his limitations in his kicking he almost exclusively goes short and wide or long down the line.

 

[vast]

He is a safe ball user but due to his limitations in his kicking he almost exclusively goes short and wide or long down the line.

Yep, just to add its better then him overreaching and making the clangers that he used to, they have completely gone out of his game this year, even under pressure.

 

[Ambrosia]

Yep, just to add its better then him overreaching and making the clangers that he used to, they have completely gone out of his game this year, even under pressure.

His real strength is his ability to absorb a tackler and give off the handball to a runner

 

[the distributer]

Hooker's average DE this season is 82.5%. Either he's making good decisions or his skills have are better than you think

It's a lot easier hitting targets coming out of defense than going into attack, how many of those possessions are back/switch kicks?, a defenders DE% doesn't mean a hell of a lot.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

Josh Kennedy and McGlynn were traded for unders. Better deal than trading a first round pick for McLean and first and Henderson for Fevola. WC didn't even get pick one for Judd who was uncontracted.

Bellchambers doesn't have a contract. That lessens Essendon's bargaining power. You can take what we got for Jacobs, Freo got for Warnock and Geelong got for Mumford. That's three actual trades for younger rucks.

Pies were desperate for Jolly to complete their flag side.

If a player says they want out to join Carlton (Laidler), Sydney (Kennedy), Adelaide (Jacobs) or Collingwood (Ball), then clubs generally let them get to their club of choice. And if they're smarter than Lyon, they take what they can get for a uncontracted player.

GWS, Collingwood and Port are possibly the only clubs in the market for a ready made and number one ruck. The Pies will hold onto their first because they now have Grundy and Witts. Rest of the AFL have a ruck or rucks, so the demand mightn't be that great. Clubs prefer to draft and develop their own players if the price is a first round pick.

Carlton might be more willing to part with a ruck for a player or for a pick in the twenties. Don't see us holding onto three number one rucks.

Your supporters only want a first round pick to add to your midfield. You say picks are overrated, yet you'd be laughing if you got a Wines, Vlastuin, Stringer, Mayes or Menzel for Bellchambers. Two first round mids would add to Ryder and Daniher holding down the ruck and forward/ruck positions.

Bellchambers doesn't want to leave. Essendon don't want to trade him. This is purely hypothetical on the basis he is somewhat excess to Essendon's requirements, so fans put up proposals.

The only way Bellchambers would be traded is if Essendon were offered a very good deal. Which does happen with Ruckman. hence why almost all your examples are off the mark.

 

[The 747]

We'd get more for Gumby because of his ability to pinch hit in the ruck. There isn't many 200cm CHF with Gumby's aerobic ability in the VFL

EFA

 

[Ambrosia]

EFA

How many 200cm CHF is there in the AFL full stop?

 

[The 747]

How many 200cm CHF is there in the AFL full stop?

I cant think of any in the AFL who are any good. Or the VFL. And that includes Gumbleton.