Opinion Even this black cloud has a silver lining

[CowboyFromHell]

Don't get me wrong guys (and girls... do any girls post here?) - I hate losing. Hate it. I'm just like you all in that a Melbourne loss, and a bad one at that, can seriously ruin our entire weekend.

But there continues to be one positive in amongst all the s**t that has gone on in the last seven weeks and it's that finally... finally... we can start to weed out the crap that we were supposed to get rid of 3-4 years ago. Finally we can start to assemble the list we were supposed to assemble when we bottomed out from 2007 onwards.

There are plenty of things we can blame and get angry at. We can crack the shits with Neeld. Crack the shits with Watts. Start threads about how much we hate them. But the bottom line is that there is a small part of me that is excited that we are seeing what currently is the REAL Melbourne and that Neeld will enjoy culling this list when the season is over. And I'll enjoy watching him cull it like a ruthless bastard.

Just have a look at these names that we can, potentially, rid ourselves of at season's end. Jamie Bennell. Lynden Dunn. Matthew Bate. Brad Green. Jake Spencer. Possibly others like Rohan Bail and a big name player like Moloney or Jamar leaves in Free Agency. Now I'm a realist guys and I know we will have differing opinions about who, and who shouldn't, go and why and not everyone will disappear. But these players mentioned above are great at VFL level, suck us in, and then do sweet FA when given the opportunity. Harsh, possibly, but in the cold light of day it's true.

While this season will be hard to get through and we will want to act like Tiger supporters at certain stages this IS the s**t we have to wade through to get to the other side. So what if everyone wants to sink the boots in and write us off forever more. We WILL get better when we can get the players in who can do the job and not run around like chickens with their heads cut off.

It almost sounds unfair, in a way, that we have to wait even longer, but if we can keep with it while the list is re-built after it was shockingly put together over the last 5 years then that eventual success will taste even sweeter. Stick at it lads.

 

[Devastating Boris]

I would be surprised if there was a mass clean out. I don't think neeld would like to start all over again with 7-8 new players in terms of drilling a game plan into players. Most likely just the minimum. But I can see 5 players I would cut straight away.

 

[LeverPuller]

I would be surprised if there was a mass clean out. I don't think neeld would like to start all over again with 7-8 new players in terms of drilling a game plan into players. Most likely just the minimum. But I can see 5 players I would cut straight away.

I won't be. Hell, it's been a reality since the compo picks were activated. AFL mandates that you must turn over three players a year. Couple that with the two compo picks and we're looking at turning over at least 5 players - three first rounders, second rounder and third rounder. That's without upgrades (which I'm assuming Magner will be) and going into the PSD.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

I would be surprised if there was a mass clean out. I don't think neeld would like to start all over again with 7-8 new players in terms of drilling a game plan into players. Most likely just the minimum. But I can see 5 players I would cut straight away.

I think what has been the most difficult is the fact Neeld has had to drill the new game plan into players who were far too used to running one way and not the other. Look at 2 of our best players this year - Clark and Magner. Two guys who were not at the club prior to this year and therefore didn't have to "un-learn" the game plan from before.

It will be the same bringing in new players for next season - while they would have played a variety of different styles of football they will still pick everything up far quicker than our current players who had so much bad stuff to deal with from the previous regime.

Trust me, our club will be FAR better off without many of those players starting from 2013. The only way is up.

 

[Demon 16]

I would be surprised if there was a mass clean out. I don't think neeld would like to start all over again with 7-8 new players in terms of drilling a game plan into players. Most likely just the minimum. But I can see 5 players I would cut straight away.

The next draft runs deep and we have 3 first rounders. I could imagine us using 7 picks or even more plus maybe a rookie upgrade or 2..

I reckon there's a fair chance of a cleanout.

 

[RedLegs#5]

It's been/going to be a painful season. People are going to stick the boots in...deep (especially keyboard warriors on this site ). However I really do think we're in good hands with Neeld. From the get go I wasn't convinced by Bailey, but I think Neeld brings a game plan (albeit hard to see now) but most importantly an attitude which this club has needed for a long time (one needed to win a premiership with the way footy is played today/ has been played for many years now). We don't want to be hanging around the 8 for the next 3-5 years (which we could have been with Bailey). We need to build a premiership side. It'll take time, but I think this man can make it happen, or at least start to.

 

[viney_2_jurrah]

James Hird and brenton Sanderson both show that you can teach your side defensive principles while still playing an exciting, attacking brand of footy.


Mark Neeld take note, before you waste another 3 years of MFC supporters time.

 

[Ando727]

I'm starting to feel like I'm going to die having never seen MFC win another flag - and I'm still in my 30's! It just feels like an impossible dream. The only time I felt like we we a chance was in 87/88, but maybe that's because I was still a naive kid. Even in 2000, we were not even close to the machine of Essendon. For whatever reason, it seems we just can't put together an organisation like some other teams do that can reach the ultimate prize. The Bulldogs have the same problem. Close but no cigar...

I know we MFC supporters get accused of being dispassionate, downhill skiers (literally in many cases), but as a Dees supporter you literally have to protect your mental health sometimes by not caring too much! There have been times when footy would ruin my whole week when I was younger. I'll always support our club and I'll always renew my membership, but these days I have to not get too bothered by what happens because I'd go insane if I did.

As far as the OP goes, I think the players that need to go are the ones who are still disgruntled with the coach by year's end. If Neeld's plan has any chance of working, we can't have dissenting voices infecting the group. Everybody has to get on board. It doesn't matter who you are, if you are not 100% committed to your part, you are part of the problem. Get over yourselves and your petty attachments to how Bailey used to let you play (however you like basically) and just get out there and do it...

 

[640MD]

Read this thread and sadly agree with most posts.

It seems the last few years rebuild has been a waste !

We were playing bruise free footy, and rightly dismissed by the better sides,

only every now n again catching them unawares and surprise and win a game,

win the contested ball,bruise the opponent and run till the siren.

You might not win many more games than say

last year but the players and supporters can lift their heads and feel good about

ourselves. A clean out again maybe with the picks we have activated, I am glad I am

not a selector or talent scout, but no point in keeping ordinary AFL players as great

players for Casey. If they are "young" there might be an upside...not sure anymore.

FRiday night I was pleased at quarter time, angry with umpiring inequality at half,

despondent at the last break, and demoralised at the final. Wednesday I will feel better

but its been a poor weekend !

Go Dees give 'eM HELL !!!

 

[Rudeurrection]

Good discussion here and good OP by CFH.

And im with you Ando! 30's and cant see a flag anywhere near the horizon!

One thing i can say from personal expierence is that Neeld will do it his way, trust me when i say this, it will be his way or the highway. He wont take s**t from players, no matter who they are. I have complete faith in what he is trying to do, unlike Bailey who changed his gameplan at the drop of a hat when the s**t hit the fan (see the mega flood when we're getting raped in any game). If a man, who's job could well and truly on the line by mid next year is committed to his course and will not deviate then that gives me great confidence. We need a coach who knows what he wants and demands his players do it. For far too long we have had the players of this club hide behind a besiged coach who seems to take all the bullets for them, it is time they were held accountable. If that means some of our favourite players (ie: Moloney) being told their services wont be required at Melbourne any longer, so be it.

Our senior players/leaders have been a disgrace since 2001. McDonald and Neitz are the only two players i can say that have led from the front, name me another player who battled through the s**t and made the group better? Every other club seems to have leaders behind the person with the (c) next to his name, we have had zero. Its been left to far too few far too often. This is why Trengove and Grimes have struggled, where is their support? A first year player from another club is hardly going to stir the hornets nest so early (Clark), Jones, for all his effort and the great year he is having is probably too nice and Chip Frawley, barely says boo. We have young players listening to the bark of 'do as i say, dont do as i do' types like Moloney. Backline chief's like Jared Rivers (in last seasons leadership group) who despite not having a bad year has done to be honest, sweet FA since winning the rising star. After 186, he led the way by going out and getting pissed that night down on Chapel St with half a dozen of our younger players. Seriously, how do our young players have a chance when we have leaders like that? If you want to be better, s**t like that waits for a more approriate time.

Neeld im sure will be true to his word and will cull the s**t that aint going to cut it under him, whoever that is, im not to judge, he will have more of an insight into this playing group than any of us will ever have by the end of this year, have faith in what he does, for far too long at this club we have had the tail wagging the dog, a 'dictator' is needed. I hope some of the players are cracking the shits, it only shows their true character in the end, they should be nervous about being on our list, the ride could well be over before they know what has hit them come seasons end.

IMO only 6 player are safe under Neeld:

Trengove
Grimes
Clark
Jones
Frawley
Magner

The rest, on notice.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Great posts above and I'm with both Ando and Rude - 30 this year and I can't see a flag coming anytime soon!

I was reading an article in the Age today where Neeld hinted that Sylvia could be dropped and I loved his quote about how for too long players at Melbourne had simply relied on their talent to get by and not putting in the hard work and adherence to the game plan. I love hearing that. Neeld is the exact opposite to what Bailey brought to the table and we will go places with him at the helm.

Also like reading that this start has not surprised him - he knows how bad the list is and he knows it is going to take time. It's hard to swallow, particularly for us supporters who desperately want to see some wins, but Neeld can see the bigger picture and when this season comes to a close he can truly put his stamp on the list and begin to turn it over. That, to me, is exciting as it means the dead wood and the players who "seduce" us time and time again will no longer be on our list.

 

[RedLegs#5]

I think this thread should be bookmarked personally. It's important for Melbourne fans on here to have something like this to read. Hang in there boys...stick together as fans and try have faith. Neeld is a good coach and if nothing else will clean out the garbage attitude that has held us back for 2 long.

 

[RandB]

Agree with most posts here.

Neeld wasn't respected at Collingwood (a professional outfit) by staff and players for nothing - over time he proved himself both with results and how he worked with others. He's proven himself at every level. The man takes ownership of his duties and has had a good mentor in MM to prepare him (as best possible) for coaching life. MM told him the first thing he had to do at the club was take control and that works at varying levels. First and foremost it is with the players. Bailey had no control what so ever and it wasn't going to change.

It is important with such a young list that we have someone who actually treats them like men and gets them to behave that way on and off the field. If we don't respect ourselves in that light then the opposition never will.

The silver lining with Neeld is that everything has a purpose and he gets things done. He doesn't bugger around with players who we might find a use for or (as Rude said) change his mind about fundamental things like our gameplan from 1 week to the next. This sense of purpose showed with our hard edge recruiting of Mitch Clark and Magner and also the support personnel Neeld sought in Misson and co. So if we do lose 5 or 6 players at yrs end you know that Neeld will replace them with the types of players who will perform as required.

I also think that there are a lot of people within the club ie the executive who could learn from him and realise just what a football club is all about.

Unfortunately Bailey took a back seat. He didn't have the support he needed and his authority was diminished with other people in the club dictating our direction and the types of players we recruited. The problem though was that he didn't take ownership of the situation and IMO the reason is that he didn't have a clear plan when he joined the club.

His gameplan was a farce and I think he looked better than what he was in 2010 due to the influence Wellman had on our defence where we had a lot of run which was easily our strength. Once Wellman left we lost that and we started going backwards.

Neeld is building from the ground up and we clearly need to work on our defensive basics. If a job is worth doing at AFL level then its worth doing properly. Neeld mentioned a clean slate, that was on an individual level, the whole football fraternity knew however our defensive side was a joke and that would have been firmly in Neeld's mind. Can't blame the guy for using that as a starting point.

Once we get going it won't just be our form that improves it will be our whole approach to football and dare I use the "c" word culture. We won't be a flash in the pan under Neeld. The only critical thing is that we hold on to our support staff like Misson and co. as they will be essential. Having said that, if you look after your people then the culture improves and it becomes circular.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Fantastic post Rand. Some good points all over the place there.

What really stood out in amongst all over those for me was Bailey taking a back seat and allowing things to just... happen. The players never truly learned how to work hard, to play to a role or to stick to a game plan. They were taught to run one way and never learnt the TRUE value of defensive efforts and running the other way. They were allowed to be lazy and they never truly reached the correct fitness levels to compete with the big boys.

Neeld is truly starting again with this list and I think, underneath all the beltings and efforts that frustrate us, that there is something exciting about the fact that FINALLY we have someone in charge who knows what he is doing and he will never, ever deviate from that plan. Players who do not work hard enough will not be welcome at the club and we will no longer accept second best. It might mean there is more pain to come but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[guitarded]

Good post CFH. Tough times ahead. I hope the playing group shares the same belief that us members have.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Where did it all go wrong?

2010 was a HUGE step in the right direction; we challenged top four teams (Collingwood twice and the Dogs)

Belted some good teams and won against teams we were better than.

Was it as simple a mistake as getting rid of the McDonald's, Miller's and Bruce's??

 

[Demon JP]

Was it as simple a mistake as getting rid of the McDonald's, Miller's and Bruce's??

Same thought Ive recently had, roughly 600 games experience between them too if you look at it that way.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Where did it all go wrong?

2010 was a HUGE step in the right direction; we challenged top four teams (Collingwood twice and the Dogs)

Belted some good teams and won against teams we were better than.

Was it as simple a mistake as getting rid of the McDonald's, Miller's and Bruce's??

I think it was a mistake to let McDonald and Miller go, not so much Bruce. I also think we would have been better off allowing Flash to leave a few years ago, as I don't honestly think he would be playing on another list right now if he wasn't with us.

We did look the goods in 2010... but did it give us a false sense of hope? Did we simply play out of our skin, have a bit of luck go our way and look better than what we should have?

 

[ExTasDeeMan]

I applaud this thread because it is looking forward, as opposed to burning the house down and crying over the ashes. There is a part of me that is very optimistic that this team come round 20 will be a infinitely better unit than it was in round 1. Sure, we will need to bleed out the spuds in that time - essentially they are playing for their future (only some know it and some don't). Agree that the best players being new cards means that they are subscribing to the vision earlier than the others.

I didn't really enjoy the Bailey years as much because we never really had a clean gameplan that was essentially "That's how Melbourne plays". When we got a run on, it was because it was because the other team dicked the possession up - it never felt that we had manufactured the situation like other teams had. When up against a alpha team, we wilted quickly and we didn't want to get dirty, just the interception and easy run.

I'm pretty critical of Neeld - we need to have that style that is our own, but understand that a guy like this doesn't get friends straight away. Our players need to grow up and understand exactly who they are playing for.

However I do miss the Daniher (apart from the bi-year spudfest).

 

[CowboyFromHell]

I applaud this thread because it is looking forward, as opposed to burning the house down and crying over the ashes. There is a part of me that is very optimistic that this team come round 20 will be a infinitely better unit than it was in round 1. Sure, we will need to bleed out the spuds in that time - essentially they are playing for their future (only some know it and some don't). Agree that the best players being new cards means that they are subscribing to the vision earlier than the others.

Great post mate but this paragraph is essentially what we need to try and see with where the club is headed. We have too many players who are comfortable and used to only running one way and this simply won't work with the current regime.

What still sticks out is how Neeld told the selection panel that there were many holes in our list and inside the style of play that he wanted us to go with. No doubt, looking at the results, that nothing has changed in that regard. Even though it means more losses I applaud the fact Neeld is not going with quick fixes and is putting in place the operation to help us succeed in the future.

 

[demonfan9]

Not sure how it's a silver lining exactly. We've been getting rid of the deadwood for years yet more still pops up. Even if we cull a few players, we still need to recruit and develop new players, which has been the main problem in the first place.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

How much has Bailey influenced our recent recruiting though?

Half our list was recruited for a style of football which is now obsolete.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Not sure how it's a silver lining exactly. We've been getting rid of the deadwood for years yet more still pops up. Even if we cull a few players, we still need to recruit and develop new players, which has been the main problem in the first place.

Problem is DF9 is that we have gotten rid of the wrong deadwood. Dunn and Bate are two who should have gone long ago (and I reckon Neeld is wishing he could push through that trade from last year long ago.) Green and Davey are past it (although Davey has one more year). Moloney is almost going to turn in to McLean Mk. II. And the list goes on...

All around in the Bailey area and all have only contributed when the going is okay, but when the going got tough they were left wanting. We have a coach who will make the hard decisions and get rid of these guys who have been around for a few seasons too long.

 

[demonfan9]

My point is that it's easy to delist players who aren't performing, but that's only a minor step in the overall process. You still need to replace them with new players via quality recruiting and development. So it's all good to see lets get rid of Macdonald, Dunn, Bate, (insert your favourite favourite scapegoat) and say "now we're on the right track", but whose to say that the new players we get are going to be the saviours? It hasn't been the case in recent years. We've been cutting deadwood and recruiting high draft picks for years now, and it's still got us nowhere. So there's no guarantee that things will magically turn around at the end of the season just because Neeld has a hand in list management.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

My point is that it's easy to delist players who aren't performing, but that's only a minor step in the overall process. You still need to replace them with new players via quality recruiting and development. So it's all good to see lets get rid of Macdonald, Dunn, Bate, (insert your favourite favourite scapegoat) and say "now we're on the right track", but whose to say that the new players we get are going to be the saviours? It hasn't been the case in recent years. We've been cutting deadwood and recruiting high draft picks for years now, and it's still got us nowhere. So there's no guarantee that things will magically turn around at the end of the season just because Neeld has a hand in list management.

I agree, and I've never said that everything is going to be rosy and the new players will all make a difference and we will live happily ever after. What I am trying to get at is that we have the opportunity to cull the deadwood properly and get the club back on track. Where that track takes us is up to how we recruit and how the players are coached, but this is the first time I've had confidence in our FD for a while now and I believe they can make the changes required that will turn the club around in the coming years.