Analysis Evolving game

[Bunk Moreland]

Pretty interesting chat on MMM earlier with Carey and Lyon

- days of two ruckman are obviously long gone

- some successful teams are now using only one genuine big forward. This looks like being able to be next evolution in the game - Hawthorn with Roughy plus mid sized and smalls, Bulldogs are playing only Boyd or Redpath (not both), Freo with Pav, West Coast have Kennedy and Darling, but Darling plays pretty small... Richmond have Reiwoldt playing almost as a HFF

- theory being more mobility is better and allows you to play an extra small who can play through the midfield with less rotations happening

- the extension would have to be defences are going to get smaller and quicker to suit, or else they'll get run off their feet

Wondering how this could work with us if it's the way forward.

- we haven't played McKernan and Giles together and wouldn't think that will change. Because one of them would have to play forward... where we already have Daniher and Carlisle

- where does this leave McKernan? If he's not a first ruck like everybody thinks, then is there a spot for him? Even without Carlisle? Would we be looking at a forward line around just Daniher, with the likes of Langford, Laverde and maybe a Goddard etc?

- if Carlisle does the unlikely and stays, do we shift him back? Along with Hurley AND Hooker? Too big... could Carlisle going actually be a blessing in disguise (provided we get something for him)?

- Hurley / Hooker / Carlisle / Daniher / Giles / McKernan... at least one of them won't be getting a game... but potentially if the game keeps changing, two of them may be forced out?

All very hard to know without a coach of course

 

[TheFrenchCut]

Pretty interesting chat on MMM earlier with Carey and Lyon

- days of two ruckman are obviously long gone

- some successful teams are now using only one genuine big forward. This looks like being able to be next evolution in the game - Hawthorn with Roughy plus mid sized and smalls, Bulldogs are playing only Boyd or Redpath (not both), Freo with Pav, West Coast have Kennedy and Darling, but Darling plays pretty small... Richmond have Reiwoldt playing almost as a HFF

- theory being more mobility is better and allows you to play an extra small who can play through the midfield with less rotations happening

- the extension would have to be defences are going to get smaller and quicker to suit, or else they'll get run off their feet

Wondering how this could work with us if it's the way forward.

- we haven't played McKernan and Giles together and wouldn't think that will change. Because one of them would have to play forward... where we already have Daniher and Carlisle

- where does this leave McKernan? If he's not a first ruck like everybody thinks, then is there a spot for him? Even without Carlisle? Would we be looking at a forward line around just Daniher, with the likes of Langford, Laverde and maybe a Goddard etc?

- if Carlisle does the unlikely and stays, do we shift him back? Along with Hurley AND Hooker? Too big... could Carlisle going actually be a blessing in disguise (provided we get something for him)?

- Hurley / Hooker / Carlisle / Daniher / Giles / McKernan... at least one of them won't be getting a game... but potentially if the game keeps changing, two of them may be forced out?

All very hard to know without a coach of course

A lot of this makes the case for C. Curnow at pick 4 very good.

 

[eth-dog]

The 2 rucks being gone is bullshit. There's only been 1 flag with 1 ruck since the sub rule was introduced. Freo are the best side in the comp and they play 2 rucks.

 

[ant555]

Do not rate Gary Lyon at all so i rarely listen to MMM.

It all depends on mobility.
Hawks often play with Hale and McEvoy or Ceglar and will use Roughy and Shoenmakers forward along with Gunston who is your mobile tall forward.

Dogs are not using Boyd as he is still struggling for consistent form.

North use 1 ruck but go with 3 tall forwards in Brown , Petrie and Watie.

As Eth said Freo use 2 rucks.

Depends on who you have on your list.

 

[yaco55]

Will say that height is over-rated - As an example, I'd rather play two tall defenders and have a Hibberd type play as the third tall or play two tall forwards, unless your third tall is a Darling type.

 

[Gumby2Hurley]

Current top 8 teams rucks:
Freo: Sandi + Clarke/Griff
Eagles: Nic Nat + Sinclair
Hawks: Cegs/Mcevoy + hale
Swans: Pyke + Tippett(324 hitouts to date)
Dogs: One ruck
Tigers: One ruck
North: One ruck
Crows: One ruck
Wouldn't say that the two ruck combo is gone. As for successful forward lines, the last 5 premiership winners have had more than 1 big foward.

 

[hurlygurdy]

Our attempts to play one ruck this year was the most frustrating element of selection for the year. What could have been if Mckernan's form had been pounced on early and we had him in tandem with TBC? I still maintain that TBC was ineffective partially because he didn't have the tank for it.
During that early/middle period of the year we lost games by small margins and you got the feeling that for the psychological health of the team, we really needed to get across the line for one or two of the those games. Mckernan brought passion and hardness to the stoppages which was the element that we missed most. If Ambrose had got injured early on instead of TBC, this year might have looked substantially different. Not that we would have made finals i hasten to add. But we might have hung in there until Watson went down...

 

[BrunoV]

Freo play 1 key forward?

What would they line up like if they had a second decent option? It's much the same story for the Dogs.

West Coast have been playing Nic Nat, Sinclair, Kennedy and Darling.

 

[Howard Moon]

it sounds like once again we were ahead of the curve...

teams will need 34 half back flankers on their list.

 

[Yoda_]

Think we lack a few elements;
* skills
* work rate
* agility

 

[Summer Nights]

:

 

[ScrappyCoCo]

Tigers were fairly average early this season playing 2 talls up forward but really got their season on track when Riewoldt, Vickery and Griffiths were all played together.

 

[Despair]

I personally don't subscribe to the theory that there is a perfect or even ideal structure. The most important thing is synergy between the way the team is structured and the movement of the ball. The rest all comes down to ability to execute.

 

[BrunoV]

it sounds like once again we were ahead of the curve...

teams will need 34 half back flankers on their list.

I was bemused to read that we have been linked to Darcy Tucker in this year's draft who is, wait for it, a half back flanker.

When I say "bemused" it's an understatement for "I flew into a fit of rage and almost gave myself an brain aneurysm".

 

[Howard Moon]

imagine a full ground press of half back flankers, 4 lines of them... all able to defend but also attack and kick..

We could have wave after wave of thrust - then all we need is somebody to kick it too..

Hmm seems to sane to be crazy

 

[baz_machine]

you see, Garry is an idiot

Once you realize that, everything else becomes clear

 

[baz_machine]

i personally don't think many coaches have the stones to try something completely different to the accepted norms anyway.

they pretty much all follow each other with only a few actually leading the way

 

[Howard Moon]

i personally don't think many coaches have the stones to try something completely different to the accepted norms anyway.

they pretty much all follow each other with only a few actually leading the way

Not follow each other, but follow the latest premier which then manifests itself into an era of style via its assistant coaches being poached around the league.

 

[Howard Moon]

Tigers were fairly average early this season playing 2 talls up forward but really got their season on track when Riewoldt, Vickery and Griffiths were all played together.

 

[ScrappyCoCo]

haha..classic technique right there

 

[Despair]

I was bemused to read that we have been linked to Darcy Tucker in this year's draft who is, wait for it, a half back flanker.

When I say "bemused" it's an understatement for "I flew into a fit of rage and almost gave myself an brain aneurysm".

The saddest part about that is if we took Darcy Tucker and he lined up on one half-back flank and Gleeson on the other, Tucker would be the more physically developed.

I guess he makes up for it in cyborg enhancements though :{

 

[Saint]

MMM were talking out of their wrong holes. Can people not remember when Franklin and Roughead were at their peak, with Gunston alongside.

You can make other things work, if you've got real strength in other departments, but there's a reason the Hawks have been chasing tall key defenders, it's to counter tall key forwards.

A promising spine like ours is a blessing, not a curse. We just need at least one decent ruckman, two would be great and you could pick and choose depending on who you're playing.

If you're playing Geelong who have no ruckman, you might get away with one, or maybe pick two to drive the advantage.

 

[baz_machine]

View attachment 166870

why aren't kids 13 - 15 years old COACHED to kick for goals like this?

this is where soccer has AFL on toast. If you don't have the technique right by 15, you never will

 

[Howard Moon]

why aren't kids 13 - 15 years old COACHED to kick for goals like this?

this is where soccer has AFL on toast. If you don't have the technique right by 15, you never will

OK class... hands up who wants a game?

ME ME ME

 

[ScrappyCoCo]

reminds me of the ballerina on top of my sisters jewellery music box thingy when i was a kid