Expansion Expansion: Has the benefit been worth it?

[Beer n Skittles]

Where would you base a team in Tassie? Launceston or Hobart? How would you promote the team to the 'other' city 200km away?

Itd be like Geelong selling Skilled Stadium memberships to people in Moe or Carlton selling memberships to people in Echuca and then counting on them to turn up every week.

Carlton do sell memberships to people in Echuca...

Also, strange logic. "Guys, we can't choose which footy mad city to base our new team in; so instead we'll base them in this third city where no-one likes footy"

 

[Mr Magic]

In the end Brisbane are doing better than Melbourne, Sydney are doing better than most traditional states. Hawthorn and Geelong are doing better than the supposed "big 4". The SA and WA teams aren't dominating, Saints and DOgs are in great shape, there is really no pattern oe evidence that any particular teams from any area or financial situation have an inherit advantage over any others.

The onfield concession for the Northern teams have been scaled back and will continue to be, revenue sharing has been implemented so lets just see what happens.

Remember, equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome.

I think there is a disadvantage because clubs like Brisbane lose players with background links from afar(South or West) and powerful clubs like Collingwood with strong influence use there position to exert maximum advantage through trade opportunities with weaker competitors

 

[L_W_P]

Thats not the point though IMO? The point is the team locational base should be a reference to player development and opportunities.
The stadium membership is irrelevant since the vast revenue is from TV viewing and allows people to get on with other aspects of their lives like helping their kids play footy while watching their team on a smart device.

Remember the game is mainly a TV product, the stadium product comes secondary

This argument actually hurts a TAS bid. If the stadium doesnt matter then why does a team need to be based there?

They already watch the game as it is so having a Hobart/Launceston team would be a waste.

 

[L_W_P]

Carlton do sell memberships to people in Echuca...

Also, strange logic. "Guys, we can't choose which footy mad city to base our new team in; so instead we'll base them in this third city where no-one likes footy"

Populations as of 2011 -

Launceston - 106,200
Hobart - 218,000
Blacktown - 301,100

It's not about the right now, its about what you can build on in 10, 20 and 30 years time. GWS makes more sense.

 

[BF Tiger]

Only to a point. All I care about is the enjoyment I get from the game. At the moment I think the talent has been spread too thin to make it a good product all round.

I don't care about the 2.5 billion dollars that 18 teams have been able to generate from TV rights. I'd rather see a better product with 12 teams that only generates 70% of that.

If some teams had to merge, re-locate or fold then it should've been done. Even if it was Richmond. I wouldn't have liked it but I'd always have come back to the game and I think it'd make it easier to attract new fans in new markets with a better quality team and product.

 

[inamedthegiants]

The problem that the AFL has is it was born out of the horse and cart era. Its tribalism stems from neighbouring suburbs competing against each other for bragging rights on the factory floor Monday morning.

It's why, even though they're perceived enemies, they're not mortal enemies, as highlighted in soccer in England, such as West Ham and Millwall.

Out of this horse and cart era, the competition grew. It moved, somewhat, with the times into cars (Waverley) and then into the jet age in the early 80s when South Melbourne relocated.

The problem we have now is we live in a jet age. Everything is instantaneous. But we are still slaves to the past and that past is the origin of the AFL, the VFL, and the amount of teams there are in Melbourne.

There are simply too many. Rugby League has the same issues with teams in Sydney.

But as the AFL wouldn't exist without the VFL having the vision to grow, we have a duty of care to the Melbourne teams to make sure they're viable businesses and protect the history which they created.

The introduction of my team and Gold Coast really only created more revenue for the AFL coffers, but that in-turn should stave off any concerns any Victorian club has about ever folding or being forced into a merger or relocated, forever.

I also wouldn't call Port or Freo "expansion" teams. These guys came with a ready made fan base, they came from Organic Growth rather than Executives in suits studying Census Figures and Population Growth charts in certain corridors and calculating the maximum return on investment.

And do I think the Giants "experiment" will work? Yes, I do. I don't think I'll be around to see it get to the point where we need to play out of a bigger stadium or even filling it to capacity each week, but I think we'll eventually be able to make a small profit every year and not be "a drain"

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Populations as of 2011 -

Launceston - 106,200
Hobart - 218,000
Blacktown - 301,100

It's not about the right now, its about what you can build on in 10, 20 and 30 years time. GWS makes more sense.

My point is that the AFL are too focused on the possibility of bringing in new fans (and therefore more cash and therefore higher CEO salary). But in doing so they're constantly screwing over, or completely ignoring, existing fans. Now they're baffled as to why attendance is down in traditional footy areas

 

[inamedthegiants]

My issue with recent expansion was that it was seen to be made necessary by too many outside influences that directly had nothing to do with our game - I'm talking about the AD administration's obsession with making Australian Football the number one game in the country and the fearmongering that went along with that.

I would have preferred to see the natural attraction and support of the game to reach the goals that Demetriou craved, but it just seemed forced and unnatural. The A league and RL had Gold Coast teams- we have to have one. Western Sydney had RL and a planned A League team - we need to have one.

Things change over time, nowadays the Gold Coast A League team is a distant nightmare for FFA. WSW got off to a flyer but they were always going to be a success due to the absence of a team in a region that had a lot of support for the sport.

RL were meant to see change galore once they got their own commission but seem to be still mired with many of the same issues.

Brisbane are a real worry and seem to have been forgotten about with all the new kids in the family. Let's hope they are on the right track soon.

Yeah they need some help up there the Lions. Not in a good spot at the moment.

 

[estibador]

Fans mock clubs who keep older players and play them instead of kids, and constantly campaign for clubs to use the seniors as a development ground for kids who aren't ready to compete against bigger bodies yet...

...then they complain about the standard of the competition.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

Not in NSW. Since the 1970's we got footy on TV with Drew Morphett etc... showing Blight, Keith Greig etc... Was a Saturday match, Friday nights was started by North, not sure if there was a Sunday match until later

Depends on what part of NSW you're from. Nowhere near that kind of coverage where I grew up.

 

[L_W_P]

My point is that the AFL are too focused on the possibility of bringing in new fans (and therefore more cash and therefore higher CEO salary). But in doing so they're constantly screwing over, or completely ignoring, existing fans. Now they're baffled as to why attendance is down in traditional footy areas

How does the AFL expansion have a negative effect on 'traditional' footy areas?

Crowds are down mostly because traditional powerhouse clubs like Carlton, Essendon and Collingwood have been poorly performed.

Essendon v Richmond last weekend had a horrible attendance hut that has nothing to do with the expansion of GWS/GC over TAS.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

My point is that the AFL are too focused on the possibility of bringing in new fans

Yeah - devastatingly bad thing to do - bring in new fans - how dare they!!!!

 

[inamedthegiants]

Where would you base a team in Tassie? Launceston or Hobart? How would you promote the team to the 'other' city 200km away?

Itd be like Geelong selling Skilled Stadium memberships to people in Moe or Carlton selling memberships to people in Echuca and then counting on them to turn up every week.

Base the team training facilities in Oatlands and the team plays 6 Home Games in each of Launny and Hobart.

It's really not that hard.

 

[Papa G]

Populations as of 2011 -

Launceston - 106,200
Hobart - 218,000
Blacktown - 301,100

It's not about the right now, its about what you can build on in 10, 20 and 30 years time. GWS makes more sense.

People that follow Australian Rules Football now or in the future

Launceston - 106,200
Hobart - 218,000
Blacktown - 301.

 

[Mr Magic]

This argument actually hurts a TAS bid. If the stadium doesnt matter then why does a team need to be based there?

They already watch the game as it is so having a Hobart/Launceston team would be a waste.

Nah you have the team to support the academies and player development in the region as a development apparatus.

Footy teams is about player development not stadium footy.

TV footy has replaced stadium footy IMO.

I would relocates GCS to Tassie for starters, Brisbane takes over the GCS area and plays some games down there.

Later on when QLD market gets more mature a second team probably needs to emerge in Northern QLD IMO.

That's what I would do.

 

[RolandF1]

Where would you base a team in Tassie? Launceston or Hobart? How would you promote the team to the 'other' city 200km away?

Itd be like Geelong selling Skilled Stadium memberships to people in Moe or Carlton selling memberships to people in Echuca and then counting on them to turn up every week.

Hobart. Capital, biggest population, the one city from Tassie most people from the outside can actually name! Why Launceston is mentioned all the time I don't get.

Promote the team like any other. People from the country still go to AFL games, still watch matches with names like Melbourne or Adelaide. Those in Port Pirie don't get snotty because they don't have a team named after them.

 

[Mr Magic]

My point is that the AFL are too focused on the possibility of bringing in new fans (and therefore more cash and therefore higher CEO salary). But in doing so they're constantly screwing over, or completely ignoring, existing fans. Now they're baffled as to why attendance is down in traditional footy areas

Who cares about attendance? The world has changed. How can you work, watch your kid play and attend to other matters unless you are security or selling pies at the stadium.

It is not about stadium attendance, its about media viewing and developing the player talent to meet the requirement

 

[Tuco]

But can you imagine a world without interstate teams?

 

[Dr Tigris]

If your point of view of VFL then expansion has altered that picture almost to the point f destruction. If it is Australian Rules Football in Australia then expanding the code is probably a good thing. If it is the quality and watchability of the AFL then argue about coaches and club administration. As much as there are more players, therefore a thinner pool of talent, the development of youngsters is much better and so more talent is coming through. A lot of rose tinted glasses here.

And the benefit is in 20-40 years. When the biggest clubs in western Sydney are the Wanderers and Giants!!

 

[Mogwai]

For example, TV revenue advocates would probably prefer GWS to the Swans because GWS is closer to the population that actually plays the game and therefore can supply the playing talent in quantity and quality on the field for the TV audience.

Nope, you'll find that most AFL participation occurs in the eastern side of Sydney, rather than the West.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Who cares about attendance? The world has changed. How can you work, watch your kid play and attend to other matters unless you are security or selling pies at the stadium.

It is not about stadium attendance, its about media viewing and developing the player talent to meet the requirement

The AFL cares about attendance, they've stated this several times.
So you've had kids & can't attend the footy as often. Please don't project that onto every single footy fan. Funnily enough plenty of us can and do still attend

 

[Mr Magic]

Nope, you'll find that most AFL participation occurs in the eastern side of SydnNher than the West.

I seriously doubt that in terms of future development. There have been teams for years in Western Sydney despite some teams in Northern suburbs

 

[Mr Magic]

The AFL cares about attendance, they've stated this several times.
So you've had kids & can't attend the footy as often. Please don't project that onto every single footy fan. Funnily enough plenty of us can and do still attend

My tag is not Mr Moron so I doubt you should expect me to respond.

Since when have I been in the projection business?

Revenue cares about TV audiences.

If you want to be heard pay your way!

I am talking about the viewing public as a whole including TV viewers not stadium attendees. I am talking about those driving the 2.5 billion revenue windfall!

 

[Beer n Skittles]

My tag is not Mr Moron so I doubt you should expect me to respond

And yet you did anyway. Way to prove me wrong

 

[Mr Magic]

And yet you did anyway. Way to prove me wrong

I referring to your expectation not my intentions.

Please pay for your own stadiums!