AFLW 2019 Expansion - Welcome North/Tas and Geelong (WCE, GC, Rich, Stk in 2020)

[captainMyCaptain]

2 years is ambitious if the 'talent pool' in the Eastern leagues is anything to go by

Agree and for mine it should at least be 5 years before they even consider expansion

 

[jatz14]

Agree and for mine it should at least be 5 years before they even consider expansion

Not really. BOG in the Freo Adelaide practice match today had never played before. She got selected based on a draft camp, and after being invited to a game session. There will be literally dozens, if not hundreds more like her. Remember, lots of the really talented driven juniors used to walk away from footy as kids to pursue sports with futures for them (or never even started the sport in the first place). If even some of them come back, there will be enough talent.

Also, the Vic female development manager was one of the ones pushing for 10 or 12 teams off the bat. His reasoning was that there was lots of good talent sitting in s**t teams in the lower divisions of womens footy in Vic that wouldn't get drafted with just 4 Vic teams, and the best way to develop that talent was to put them in an AFL program. Just because a league is a pretty crap league doesn't mean there are not a bunch of players in it who could do well in an AFL program.

 

[Aeglos]

Not really. BOG in the Freo Adelaide practice match today had never played before. She got selected based on a draft camp, and after being invited to a game session. There will be literally dozens, if not hundreds more like her. Remember, lots of the really talented driven juniors used to walk away from footy as kids to pursue sports with futures for them (or never even started the sport in the first place). If even some of them come back, there will be enough talent.

Also, the Vic female development manager was one of the ones pushing for 10 or 12 teams off the bat. His reasoning was that there was lots of good talent sitting in s**t teams in the lower divisions of womens footy in Vic that wouldn't get drafted with just 4 Vic teams, and the best way to develop that talent was to put them in an AFL program. Just because a league is a pretty crap league doesn't mean there are not a bunch of players in it who could do well in an AFL program.

I hardly think someone playing in their first half dozen games of AFL getting BOG in a national league match is a glowing endorsement for the depth of talent at the moment lol

 

[Gigantor]

I hardly think someone playing in their first half dozen games of AFL getting BOG in a national league match is a glowing endorsement for the depth of talent at the moment lol

It's a new women's comp with its first foray into semi-professionalism, there will be dozens of female athletes who have the wood in terms of athleticism and natural fitness over some who have played football all their lives.

The woman who can run out a full game will be more valuable than the woman who can't. Pointless being able to kick and handball if you can't get anywhere near the footy.

In years to come, we'll get more of these natural athletes into our footy programs at an earlier age.

Just reading this morning that former Opals and Capitals guard, Jess Bibby has been voted into the Giants' leadership group. The report says that she has only played two games of footy in her life, and she's 37. Do you reckon someone like that might be able to teach young females footballers who are brand new to this sort of training regime something about professional sport, preparation, etc?

Also, she's born in Melbourne, you don't reckon she's kicked the footy around the backyard and can grab it out of the air as well as any woman going around?

 

[jatz14]

I hardly think someone playing in their first half dozen games of AFL getting BOG in a national league match is a glowing endorsement for the depth of talent at the moment lol

It wasn't meant to be an endorsement, it was meant to show that there were players available who could be bought into the league from outside the top existing leagues. Probably enough that you could have extra teams without making the AFLW weaker. Extra teams means faster player and game development.

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[BringBackTorps]

It's a new women's comp with its first foray into semi-professionalism, there will be dozens of female athletes who have the wood in terms of athleticism and natural fitness over some who have played football all their lives.

The woman who can run out a full game will be more valuable than the woman who can't. Pointless being able to kick and handball if you can't get anywhere near the footy.

In years to come, we'll get more of these natural athletes into our footy programs at an earlier age.

Just reading this morning that former Opals and Capitals guard, Jess Bibby has been voted into the Giants' leadership group. The report says that she has only played two games of footy in her life, and she's 37. Do you reckon someone like that might be able to teach young females footballers who are brand new to this sort of training regime something about professional sport, preparation, etc?

Also, she's born in Melbourne, you don't reckon she's kicked the footy around the backyard and can grab it out of the air as well as any woman going around?

Mel Hickey, 31 yo Melbourne AFLW player, has been quoted recently saying she has never felt stronger in her life, and has been playing sport at a high level for over 10 years.
She said she also believes that, due to physiological differences, females might not reach their peak strength and fitness until about 30.

If true, this would allow older AFLW athletes to compete at a high level well into their 30's -unlike men who are generally on the decline by their early 30's. And might also mean that some women younger than 23, cf men in the AFL, will often be at a significant disadvantage (unless they are VERY skilled in AF) -as they will be pushed around too easily.

 

[Gigantor]

Mel Hickey, 31 yo Melbourne AFLW player, has been quoted recently saying she has never felt stronger in her life, and has been playing sport at a high level for over 10 years.
She said she also believes that, due to physiological differences, females might not reach their peak strength and fitness until about 30.

If true, this would allow older AFLW athletes to compete at a high level well into their 30's -unlike men who are generally on the decline by their early 30's. And might also mean that some women younger than 23, cf men in the AFL, will often be at a significant disadvantage (unless they are VERY skilled in AF) -as they will be pushed around too easily.

There might be something in that. Plenty of stories of women taking up marathon running in their 30s (by the time I was 35, every joint in my body was busted up).

 

[telsor]

Mel Hickey, 31 yo Melbourne AFLW player, has been quoted recently saying she has never felt stronger in her life, and has been playing sport at a high level for over 10 years.
She said she also believes that, due to physiological differences, females might not reach their peak strength and fitness until about 30.

If true, this would allow older AFLW athletes to compete at a high level well into their 30's -unlike men who are generally on the decline by their early 30's. And might also mean that some women younger than 23, cf men in the AFL, will often be at a significant disadvantage (unless they are VERY skilled in AF) -as they will be pushed around too easily.

Part of the reason men retire in their 30s is that after 10-15 years, the cumulative effect of their injuries just wears them down.

I'd also point out that in other sports, even those that are relatively well paid for both genders (e.g. tennis, WNBL) there is little to suggest that women tend to play longer than men.

 

[telsor]

Longer delays to bring more teams in adds to the concern I had with the teams the AFL picked.

The earlier clubs join the women's league, the more advantages these clubs will have in attracting fans & sponsors, especially the new fans to the game who will go to the first clubs and be less likely to move.

The longer that head start goes for, the bigger that advantage will be.

If the AFL had given women's teams to the smallest clubs in each market, then the larger clubs would be able to make up the difference far more easily and thus lead to a more even competition down the road.

 

[Clems Knee]

Longer delays to bring more teams in adds to the concern I had with the teams the AFL picked.

The earlier clubs join the women's league, the more advantages these clubs will have in attracting fans & sponsors, especially the new fans to the game who will go to the first clubs and be less likely to move.

The longer that head start goes for, the bigger that advantage will be.

If the AFL had given women's teams to the smallest clubs in each market, then the larger clubs would be able to make up the difference far more easily and thus lead to a more even competition down the road.

Fremantle check
GWS check
Adelaide (Port withdrew so was the only candidate) check
Brisbane (both small) check
Melbourne check
Western Bulldogs check
Carlton - kinda, the Blues are not as big as they used to be.
Collingwood - well no.

So 6 out of 8 isn't bad. There is another argument to have the teams with the best application getting the first gig. And the teams with the greatest drawing power.

 

[telsor]

Fremantle check
GWS check
Adelaide (Port withdrew so was the only candidate) check
Brisbane (both small) check
Melbourne check
Western Bulldogs check
Carlton - kinda, the Blues are not as big as they used to be.
Collingwood - well no.

So 6 out of 8 isn't bad. There is another argument to have the teams with the best application getting the first gig. And the teams with the greatest drawing power.

Worth noting that in several of those cases, that was the only team that applied in that market.

Yeah, I understand the appeal of higher drawing clubs to help draw crowds, etc. but if the plan was to expand the number of clubs quickly, then surely starting with St Kilda & North and having Carlton & Collingwood come in a few years later wouldn't have hurt too much.

It's done now, but as I said, delays in bringing in more clubs makes the 'first in' advantage bigger.


The other concern with attaching them to AFL clubs is what happens when support doesn't match existing clubs? AFLW doesn't have quite the same historical issues in NSW, QLD for example, so support is likely to be closer to the populations, so if (when?) the support in QLD warrants 3 womens clubs, while 2 mens clubs AFL continues to struggle, what do they do?

 

[eastfreo75]

People need to realise that the landscape in terms of playing strength is very different from the women's to the men's.

In the last girls under 18 nationals , Victoria metro was way in front of the pack. Qld, WA, and Vic County were very even. SA is very poor and NSW/act is better than SA.

Queensland Female AFL in 2016 increased in numbers by 30%.

So in the future Qld will over take WA as the second best state.




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[Gigantor]

I too share Telsor's concern about the original teams getting too much of an advantage soaking up the first two years of talent.

If the comp is successful after its first year, I'd rather see two, or even four, teams come straight in to grab the next load of talent not yet on a playing list.

 

[Limerick]

Are the current AFLW lists to remain as is, in 2018. I thought I heard that the AFL was going to do some form of redrafting to even up the comp i.e. each of the eight teams can retain a set number with the rest going back into a draft.

The AFL does have a problem in that many football followers won't buy a membership to any women's team other than the the men's tean they follow and as such the AFL is committed to an 18 team women's comp. However the depth of the talent pool and the cost will be a large factor over the next few years.

The talent pool depth is the reason we have a pre season comp.

 

[Gigantor]

Are the current AFLW lists to remain as is, in 2018. I thought I heard that the AFL was going to do some form of redrafting to even up the comp i.e. each of the eight teams can retain a set number with the rest going back into a draft.

The AFL does have a problem in that many football followers won't buy a membership to any women's team other than the the men's tean they follow and as such the AFL is committed to an 18 team women's comp. However the depth of the talent pool and the cost will be a large factor over the next few years.

The talent pool depth is the reason we have a pre season comp.

I think it will be a while before they go to 18 teams.

Given the unique nature of the AFL Women's as it currently stands, they might need to do some creative thinking about keeping the comp fairly even. It looks like we (GWS) are starting from a long way behind.

 

[jatz14]

I think it will be a while before they go to 18 teams.

Given the unique nature of the AFL Women's as it currently stands, they might need to do some creative thinking about keeping the comp fairly even. It looks like we (GWS) are starting from a long way behind.

To be fair, they have a few significant players out, and are probably the team that can least afford that.

 

[jatz14]

Are the current AFLW lists to remain as is, in 2018. I thought I heard that the AFL was going to do some form of redrafting to even up the comp i.e. each of the eight teams can retain a set number with the rest going back into a draft.

The AFL does have a problem in that many football followers won't buy a membership to any women's team other than the the men's tean they follow and as such the AFL is committed to an 18 team women's comp. However the depth of the talent pool and the cost will be a large factor over the next few years.

The talent pool depth is the reason we have a pre season comp.

They are reviewing everything at the end of the season, including teams, rules grounds, etc. So presumably, right now, even the AFL do not know if or how the lists change.

 

[Kappa]

Talent pool is super stretched with 8 teams... Talking about expanding already is ridiculous.

 

[The_Wookie]

Talent pool is super stretched with 8 teams... Talking about expanding already is ridiculous.

I reckon we'll see a staggered approach to teams joining, but eventually every afl team will have a womens side.

2019 - three new teams ie. St Kilda, Gold Coast, West Coast
2021 - three new teamns ie. Geelong, Port Adelaide, Sydney
2023 - Final teams ie. Hawthorn (Tas), Essendon, Richmond (NT), North

 

[Kappa]

I reckon we'll see a staggered approach to teams joining, but eventually every afl team will have a womens side.

2019 - three new teams ie. St Kilda, Gold Coast, West Coast
2021 - three new teamns ie. Geelong, Port Adelaide, Sydney
2023 - Final teams ie. Hawthorn (Tas), Essendon, Richmond (NT), North

People complain about not having enough talent for 18 mens teams and now we're talking about 18 women teams within 7 years? Ridiculous to be honest.

5 Years minimum from expansion IF things go well, which they might not.

 

[The_Wookie]

People complain about not having enough talent for 18 mens teams and now we're talking about 18 women teams within 7 years? Ridiculous to be honest.

5 Years minimum from expansion IF things go well, which they might not.

It'll be sooner rather than later. the clubs wont stand for it to be longer while other clubs reap benefits.

 

[FRUMPY]

The afl have stuffed this up by aligning teams with afl clubs. Now every club will want a side. but the biggest flaw in AFL is we have 10 teams in melbourne.

Add to that the afl is stretched for talent for 18 teams that womens footy will never get to such talent levels to get 18 elte teams. Heck team lists are only around 30 at present for womens team (i think).

Expansion should be shelved for 3 years at a minimum but maybe increase team lists each year.

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[Gigantor]

The afl have stuffed this up by aligning teams with afl clubs. Now every club will want a side. but the biggest flaw in AFL is we have 10 teams in melbourne.

Add to that the afl is stretched for talent for 18 teams that womens footy will never get to such talent levels to get 18 elte teams. Heck team lists are only around 30 at present for womens team (i think).

Expansion should be shelved for 3 years at a minimum but maybe increase team lists each year.

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It's a success because they are AFL clubs

 

[Kappa]

It'll be sooner rather than later. the clubs wont stand for it to be longer while other clubs reap benefits.

The clubs don't have a choice. The AFL has already shown it doesn't care about "equality" here handing out licenses to a handful of their favourites.

 

[Doggies 06]

People complain about not having enough talent for 18 mens teams and now we're talking about 18 women teams within 7 years? Ridiculous to be honest.

5 Years minimum from expansion IF things go well, which they might not.

It will be many years (if ever) before there are 18 AFLW teams.

All of a sudden the supporters of teams that put in substandard bids want in.

5 years minimum IMO will be required to build up the talent pool and get the existing teams to a high level of performance on field.