AFLW 2019 Expansion - Welcome North/Tas and Geelong (WCE, GC, Rich, Stk in 2020)

[The_Wookie]

I think West Coast "needs" a team a lot more than the Gold Coast, simply because they wanted one and missed out. Why would you assume it's Victoria that will get "several extra teams"?

womens game in victoria is far more developed and extensive than anywhere else by a fair margin.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Its interesting that St Kilda and Geelong assume they are the next two teams in. Richmond and North would probably disagree with that.

Probably because the AFL don't need 2 more inner city teams, they've already got 3, 4 if you include the bulldogs.

 

[The_Wookie]

Probably because the AFL don't need 2 more inner city teams, they've already got 3, 4 if you include the bulldogs.

Tigers have aligned themselves with Bendigo Thunder though, which is a very good move. A huge supporter base wont hurt their chances either.

 

[Nick Lions]

womens game in victoria is far more developed and extensive than anywhere else by a fair margin.

Have you got any stats on this? I'm genuinely interested to compare the numbers of participants in each state and regional growth. I don't think the gap between Victoria and the rest is as vast as you'd expect.
Edit: Just had a look myself. I noticed in another thread you had Australia wide participation at 380,000~ for females. According to AFLQ website 76,000 of those were in Queensland. I'd be surprised if traditional Australian Rules states in WA and SA didn't match that. I can't argue that Women's footy has more history in Victoria. Numbers of participants are likely to be slightly higher in Victoria too. Development however looks as though it could be a different story.

 

[The_Wookie]

Have you got any stats on this? I'm genuinely interested to compare the numbers of participants in each state. I don't think the gap between Victoria and the rest is as vast as you'd expect.

Not in overall participants, but in terms of club football theres a lot more in victoria than any other state. Check the womens footy board

 

[External Inputs]

womens game in victoria is far more developed and extensive than anywhere else by a fair margin.

Considering two WA marquees were ruled out by ACLs and still 8 others were selected, 6 for eastern states clubs, it doesn't seem like the team selectors considered Victoria so very far ahead. If Victoria wants to have three or four new teams that's fine by me, so long as the players all come from Victoria, rather than bleeding other states dry.

 

[The_Wookie]

Have you got any stats on this? I'm genuinely interested to compare the numbers of participants in each state and regional growth. I don't think the gap between Victoria and the rest is as vast as you'd expect.
Edit: Just had a look myself. I noticed in another thread you had Australia wide participation at 380,000~ for females. According to AFLQ website 76,000 of those were in Queensland. I'd be surprised if traditional Australian Rules states in WA and SA didn't match that. I can't argue that Women's footy has more history in Victoria. Numbers of participants are likely to be slightly higher in Victoria too. Development however looks as though it could be a different story.

Theres a wide variety of differing stats out there. But using general participation statistics is highly misleading. In particular I query how much is development and how much is just school programming.

These are the 2015 breakdowns from AFL Queenslands womens programme - 71,000 participants - 59,000 in schools, 8,000 in Auskick and just 3,000 in club fooiball.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Victoria has easily dominated the national women's state championships for over 20 years. The opposition are road-kill, don't get close. They lost only once ( in Perth, narrowly in a famous, hard fought victory by WA in 2015).
Freo.'s poor AFLW record has been a big surprise -many judged them to be favourite. Perhaps an indicator of WA poor depth in women's AF.

At U 18 national championships, Vic. was split up into Vic. Metro. & Vic. Country -they have always dominated, don't think Vic. Metro has ever lost championship. Despite Qlds. big nos, no match in schoolgirl championships against Vic. Metro.

Qld. is doing a superb job. in promoting primary & secondary schoolgirl AF - & probably has the highest nos. for female participation in Aust. overall, a few thousand ahead of Vic. Qld. are competitive against Vic. in schoolgirl AF only -the Qld. women fight strongly, but usually get overun.

SA have been pathetic in promoting female AF until about 12 months ago -have very low numbers across all levels of female AF.
SANFL have just started a summer adult comp.

NSW is surprisingly strong -IIRC, c. 30+teams in 2016 (inc. Newcastle 10 adult teams!). Surprisingly, in 2016 only 1 adult team in the Riverina.
ACT also strong, c. 8 teams. University presence is strong in both areas.
Neither get close to Vic. in national championships, senior or junior.
The AFL is promoting schoolgirl AF in NSW heavily -to fly the AF flag, increase its footprint.

NT & Tas. have grown strongly in last few years, NT is better than Tas.
Neither would challenge Vic., WA, or Qld.

A significant increase in regd. participation nos. is expected in 2017, in all states, across all age groups.

Syd. is disappointing with only 3 new women's teams -but Melb. will have c. 50 NEW women's teams (inc. 40 in VAFAW, who in 2017 are starting a new women's comp. -& intend in making their comp. Aust. biggest. Even all-boys'schools are starting adult women's teams!).

 

[jatz14]

Victoria has easily dominated the national women's state championships for over 20 years. The opposition are road-kill, don't get close. They lost only once ( in Perth, narrowly in a famous, hard fought victory by WA in 2015).
Freo.'s poor AFLW record has been a big surprise -many judged them to be favourite. Perhaps an indicator of WA poor depth in women's AF.

At U 18 national championships, Vic. was split up into Vic. Metro. & Vic. Country -they have always dominated, don't think Vic. Metro has ever lost championship. Despite Qlds. big nos, no match in schoolgirl championships against Vic. Metro.

Qld. is doing a superb job. in promoting primary & secondary schoolgirl AF - & probably has the highest nos. for female participation in Aust. overall, a few thousand ahead of Vic. Qld. are competitive against Vic. in schoolgirl AF only -the Qld. women fight strongly, but usually get overun.

SA have been pathetic in promoting female AF until about 12 months ago -have very low numbers across all levels of female AF.
SANFL have just started a summer adult comp.

NSW is surprisingly strong -IIRC, c. 30+teams in 2016 (inc. Newcastle 10 adult teams!). Surprisingly, in 2016 only 1 adult team in the Riverina.
ACT also strong, c. 8 teams. University presence is strong in both areas.
Neither get close to Vic. in national championships, senior or junior.
The AFL is promoting schoolgirl AF in NSW heavily -to fly the AF flag, increase its footprint.

NT & Tas. have grown strongly in last few years, NT is better than Tas.
Neither would challenge Vic., WA, or Qld.

A significant increase in regd. participation nos. is expected in 2017, in all states, across all age groups.

Syd. is disappointing with only 3 new women's teams -but Melb. will have c. 50 NEW women's teams (inc. 40 in VAFAW, who in 2017 are starting a new women's comp. -& intend in making their comp. Aust. biggest. Even all-boys'schools are starting adult women's teams!).

I think WA has also won an u18 champs, beating Vic Metro.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[BringBackTorps]

I think WA has also won an u18 champs, beating Vic Metro.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

OK, I wasn't aware.
WA U 18 actually won the Championship , as well as beating Vic. Metro? When?

My understanding U 18 Perth girls generally didn't continue into senior WAWFL -thus causing WAWFL's nos. to stagnate for many years.

Do you know if the WA Amateurs are planning to start their own women's comp.?

 

[The_Wookie]

As a further comparison to the above

• 2015- AFLQ reports 3,000 in womens club teams. WA reports 2,200. AFl Victoria reports more than 5,000. Notably, Queenslands figures are inclusive of the Northern Rivers
• 2016 - of the 953 total womens teams reported in Australia by the AFL, 157 are in WA, 355 are in Victoria (which also reports 9,354 women in competitions). AFLQ reports 3,666 in womens club competitions.

Its also worth noting that AFL Victoria is moving to a full blown TAC Cup system this year for the women.

 

[Garlic muncher]

As a further comparison to the above

• 2015- AFLQ reports 3,000 in womens club teams. WA reports 2,200. AFl Victoria reports more than 5,000. Notably, Queenslands figures are inclusive of the Northern Rivers
• 2016 - of the 953 total womens teams reported in Australia by the AFL, 157 are in WA, 355 are in Victoria (which also reports 9,354 women in competitions). AFLQ reports 3,666 in womens club competitions.

Its also worth noting that AFL Victoria is moving to a full blown TAC Cup system this year for the women.

In 2016 Brisbane Junior AFL

Under 17 girls - 6 teams
under 15 girls - 13 teams
under 13 girls - 11 teams

................ 30 teams


In 2017

Under 17 girls - 10 teams
under 15 girls - 18 teams
under 13 girls - 14 teams

............... 42 teams

Under 12 and below play with boys.

** edit, there was a girls under 11's last year in Brisbane, but draw for under 12's and below in 2017 is not released yet.

 

[NoobPie]

In 2016 Brisbane Junior AFL

Under 17 girls - 6 teams
under 15 girls - 13 teams
under 13 girls - 11 teams

................ 30 teams


In 2017

Under 17 girls - 10 teams
under 15 girls - 18 teams
under 13 girls - 14 teams

............... 42 teams

Under 12 and below play with boys.

A cheeky 40% growth in teams year on year

 

[jatz14]

OK, I wasn't aware.
WA U 18 actually won the Championship , as well as beating Vic. Metro? When?

My understanding U 18 Perth girls generally didn't continue into senior WAWFL -thus causing WAWFL's nos. to stagnate for many years.

Do you know if the WA Amateurs are planning to start their own women's comp.?

2014.
The team had
Ashley Sharp
Kellie Gibson
Brianna Green
Caitlyn Edwards
Tarnica Golisano
Cassie Davidson
Hayley Miller
Tayla Bresland
Sabrina Frederick-Traub
Beatrice Devlin
Edit. Forgot Demi Okely
All currently on AFLW lists
Your right, I think there is a big drop off in U18s going to seniors, but not the best players (who generally end up at the best clubs). In addition to the above, I recognise a few others from the team still kicking around in the WAWFL. I suspect its why WA has the double of a good state team, and poor depth. The best stay, the rest do not.

I havent heard anything about the WAAFL, but here in the SWFL, a womens comp starts this year, and there was very little advance warning or publicity for that, so you never know.

 

[BringBackTorps]

2014.
The team had
Ashley Sharp
Kellie Gibson
Brianna Green
Caitlyn Edwards
Tarnica Golisano
Cassie Davidson
Hayley Miller
Tayla Bresland
Sabrina Frederick-Traub
Beatrice Devlin
Edit. Forgot Demi Okely
All currently on AFLW lists
Your right, I think there is a big drop off in U18s going to seniors, but not the best players (who generally end up at the best clubs). In addition to the above, I recognise a few others from the team still kicking around in the WAWFL. I suspect its why WA has the double of a good state team, and poor depth. The best stay, the rest do not.

I havent heard anything about the WAAFL, but here in the SWFL, a womens comp starts this year, and there was very little advance warning or publicity for that, so you never know.

Why is there a big drop off in WA in U18's going to snrs?
(In Vic., there is also a drop off. Some say the girls look at the tackling in Premier -or VFLW-; & get "nervous"!)

 

[Garlic muncher]

Why is there a big drop off in WA in U18's going to snrs?
(In Vic., there is also a drop off. Some say the girls look at the tackling in Premier -or VFLW-; & get "nervous"!)

Same as the men's, there is sometimes a big step up from girls to women in physicality, just like mens girls don't want to get hurt and lose jobs or job prospects etc, or they move away for work, or take a gap year or other interests may take over etc

 

[jatz14]

Why is there a big drop off in WA in U18's going to snrs?
(In Vic., there is also a drop off. Some say the girls look at the tackling in Premier -or VFLW-; & get "nervous"!)

The usual, some only playing because friends are, some go on and start medical degrees, some relocate for study/work, and away from their normal friends, drop out of things like sport.

The suggestion is also (I have no first hand experience), that those that go to the WAWFL either end up in a weak team, and regularly get smashed, which is no fun, or end up at the Titans or Swans, and then face not even getting a run, also no fun, so they leave.

Going to 2 teams per club may help there.

 

[Aeglos]

Couple of reasons for big drop offs (in guys at least) from U18 to seniors
1) a few start trades that require them to work Saturdays and/or they can't afford to get hurt
2) they go with playing with their mates every weekend to getting split up into reserves/seniors or not playing at all
A heap I played 18s with would come to just about every home game but never had any intention of playing

I think WA has also won an u18 champs, beating Vic Metro.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

2008 iirc

 

[BringBackTorps]

Couple of reasons for big drop offs (in guys at least) from U18 to seniors
1) a few start trades that require them to work Saturdays and/or they can't afford to get hurt
2) they go with playing with their mates every weekend to getting split up into reserves/seniors or not playing at all
A heap I played 18s with would come to just about every home game but never had any intention of playing



2008 iirc

The VAFA recognised the big drop off, from U 17 jnrs -U19 Snr. comps.; & made changes to U 19 age requirements.

They made the age cut-off date June 30 (not the usual Jan. 1). Effectively, if a player is still 19 (but not 20 yo) on June 30 in the current year, he can still play U19 (ie it has become an U19 &1/2 comp.).
Furthermore, a VAFA U 19 team can have four (maximum) players who are 20 (ie not 21, or older) on June 30 in the current year.

The VAFA recognised many U19 players still were physically light weights, & were very reticent about going to the more physical & intense senior environment of U 19 AF -let alone snr. adult AF.
Also, psychologically, some 18,19, & 20 y.o.'s (often students or apprentices, PT jobs, light drinkers, driving old cars, no girlfriends, "poor", don't take training too seriously etc) were in a "different frame of mind"to many senior players. The latter (often big drinkers, have girlfriends/wives/kids/divorced, with mortgages & responsibility,in FT jobs, drive good cars, paying off a house, etc) take their football much more seriously -& not enamoured with some quick young dude who takes their/or friends'place in the 1's!

These VAFA U 19 changes have been successful in increasing the numbers playing VAFA U 19's -"mates playing with mates for longer". There have been discussions about possibly converting VAFA U 19 to an U 20 comp. -it wants to increase further its young player nos. Some 3rds teams are unofficially all U23, "to keep the boys together".
Of course, nothing prevents a very skilled 18 yo playing adult snr. AF, if that is what the player & club wants.
The VAFA has built its U19's to 7 Divisions. Some clubs (usually the big all-boys schools) have three U19 teams, in different U 19 Divisions.

 

[Aeglos]

The VAFA recognised the big drop off, from U 17 jnrs -U19 Snr. comps.; & made changes to U 19 age requirements.

They made the age cut-off date June 30 (not the usual Jan. 1). Effectively, if a player is still 19 (but not 20 yo) on June 30 in the current year, he can still play U19 (ie it has become an U19 &1/2 comp.).
Furthermore, a VAFA U 19 team can have four (maximum) players who are 20 (ie not 21, or older) on June 30 in the current year.

The VAFA recognised many U19 players still were physically light weights, & were very reticent about going to the more physical & intense senior environment of U 19 AF -let alone snr. adult AF.
Also, psychologically, some 18,19, & 20 y.o.'s (often students or apprentices, PT jobs, light drinkers, driving old cars, no girlfriends, "poor", don't take training too seriously etc) were in a "different frame of mind"to many senior players. The latter (often big drinkers, have girlfriends/wives/kids/divorced, with mortgages & responsibility,in FT jobs, drive good cars, paying off a house, etc) take their football much more seriously -& not enamoured with some quick young dude who takes their/or friends'place in the 1's!

These VAFA U 19 changes have been successful in increasing the numbers playing VAFA U 19's -"mates playing with mates for longer". There have been discussions about possibly converting VAFA U 19 to an U 20 comp. -it wants to increase further its young player nos. Some 3rds teams are unofficially all U23, "to keep the boys together".
Of course, nothing prevents a very skilled 18 yo playing adult snr. AF, if that is what the player & club wants.
The VAFA has built its U19's to 7 Divisions. Some clubs (usually the big all-boys schools) have three U19 teams, in different U 19 Divisions.

Well of course if you expand an age group 2 years you'll get increased playing numbers lol. You've literally doubled the pool of potential players (and I suspect the number of U19s hasn't doubled in that period)
The EFL did the same thing (U19 w/ a couple of 20 year olds) and a lot f clubs are still struggling to field sides. The demographic out here has changed a lot in that time though so hard to tell (few schools have closed in the same areas as clubs struggling to field sides)

 

[BringBackTorps]

Well of course if you expand an age group 2 years you'll get increased playing numbers lol. You've literally doubled the pool of potential players (and I suspect the number of U19s hasn't doubled in that period)
The EFL did the same thing (U19 w/ a couple of 20 year olds) and a lot f clubs are still struggling to field sides. The demographic out here has changed a lot in that time though so hard to tell (few schools have closed in the same areas as clubs struggling to field sides)

The VAFA haven't "expand an age group 2 years". Six months only, & allowing max. four 20 y.o.
VAFA U 19's is booming -why do you say"...the demographic has changed a lot..."re the eastern suburbs. Still big nos. playing in eastern suburbs.

 

[barrackers]

From the Collingwood B&F the unofficial talk around the comp is an expansion in 2019 of between 2-4 Victorian teams

 

[BringBackTorps]

From the Collingwood B&F the unofficial talk around the comp is an expansion in 2019 of between 2-4 Victorian teams

If we want to keep the skill standards at appropriate levels, I don't believe we could add 3 or 4 new Vic. AFLW teams in 2019 (or 3-4 new teams overall, from around Aust.)

It is expected the new elite u18 AFLW Vic. TAC comp.in 2017, however, will dramatically lift skill standards.
But how would these teenage girls (c.18-20 y.o in 2019) skill levels, self-belief, & enthusiasm cope with the "brutality"of AFLW tackles & bumps -in heat & humidity.

Without mentioning names, was this "unofficial talk"emanating from AFLW Coll. players, or snr. officials; or both?
What were the reasons mentioned for adding 4 new Vic. teams in 2019
Names mentioned of which new clubs to come in?

 

[Dirty Bird]

I'd go 2019 - Geelong and west coast
2021 - north Melbourne and Gold Coast
2023 - Richmond and st kilda
2025 - hawthorn and Sydney
2027 - Essendon and port Adelaide

Can delay teams by a few years, but on the benefit to women's footy and/or talent levels. I feel it should be that order

(Maybe switch west coast and north Melbourne........north is trying to align with tas, helps Tasmania development)

 

[barrackers]

If we want to keep the skill standards at appropriate levels, I don't believe we could add 3 or 4 new Vic. AFLW teams in 2019 (or 3-4 new teams overall, from around Aust.)

It is expected the new elite u18 AFLW Vic. TAC comp.in 2017, however, will dramatically lift skill standards.
But how would these teenage girls (c.18-20 y.o in 2019) skill levels, self-belief, & enthusiasm cope with the "brutality"of AFLW tackles & bumps -in heat & humidity.

Without mentioning names, was this "unofficial talk"emanating from AFLW Coll. players, or snr. officials; or both?
What were the reasons mentioned for adding 4 new Vic. teams in 2019
Names mentioned of which new clubs to come in?

Sikeman made the comment during his speech, he didn't elude anything more than what I posted.