Opinion Expectations

[Mighty Guybrush]

Hi all, sorry to intrude but saw this discussion and thought you might like to read it;
http://www.unambitiousus.com/sports/fremantle-2015-will-they-slide/

FWIW I suspect you guys still have the ability to be top 4, but will need a good run with injuries etc...

Just read that article. Its two minutes of my life I will never get back. I believe we are still very much in contention - just my opninion, but the basis for the opinion of the "author" of that article smacks of someone who doesnt know or follow our team and is regurtitating popular myths about Ross Lyon (doesnt develop youth blah blah blah).

 

[DJ75]

Just read that article. Its two minutes of my life I will never get back. I believe we are still very much in contention - just my opninion, but the basis for the opinion of the "author" of that article smacks of someone who doesnt know or follow our team and is regurtitating popular myths about Ross Lyon (doesnt develop youth blah blah blah).

I get where you are coming from, but Lyon does have some history in this area doesn't he (See St. Kilda)? Outside of Lachie Neale (who is no rookie now), how much youth have you developed over the past two seasons? Are you well placed in 2016-18?

 

[salim malik]

I get where you are coming from, but Lyon does have some history in this area doesn't he (See St. Kilda)? Outside of Lachie Neale (who is no rookie now), how much youth have you developed over the past two seasons? Are you well placed in 2016-18?

The only reason your'e on here is to gloat over a couple of nobodies opinion that your team will move into the four over us
Your opinion of Lyon and our youth means zilch .
Go away please

 

[DJ75]

The only reason your'e on here is to gloat over a couple of nobodies opinion that your team will move into the four over us
Your opinion of Lyon and our youth means zilch .
Go away please

Wow. Ok then.
For the record - no gloating. I would have happily taken Ross lyon as a coach at the Crows. Hell he is the type of coach we have desperately needed for a number of years. I have no such faith that the Crows will be top 4 next year - I still think we will be bottom of the eightish.

Reading this thread it seems that many of you hold the same opinions of the article - that your list is close but ageing and a worry if injuries occur.

Sorry to intrude - I shall be off now.

 

[Unique Name]

Taberner
Crozier
Neale
Sutcliffe
Sheridan
(Fyfe & Walters are only 23 and have develeped under Lyon)
We're a side in premiership contention so we will always be slightly older.

 

[Mr Peabody]

I get where you are coming from, but Lyon does have some history in this area doesn't he (See St. Kilda)? Outside of Lachie Neale (who is no rookie now), how much youth have you developed over the past two seasons? Are you well placed in 2016-18?

"Unambitious. The Online magazine for Time Wasters"....... or in your case, wasted space perhaps.

 

[PapaJ]

Wow. Ok then.
For the record - no gloating. I would have happily taken Ross lyon as a coach at the Crows. Hell he is the type of coach we have desperately needed for a number of years. I have no such faith that the Crows will be top 4 next year - I still think we will be bottom of the eightish.

Reading this thread it seems that many of you hold the same opinions of the article - that your list is close but ageing and a worry if injuries occur.

Sorry to intrude - I shall be off now.

Don't take it too personally. The problem is that many of us around here are sick of hearing the cliche thing about Lyon not good at developing youth and, more recently, that we're going to drop out of the 8 or scrape in at best because the only 3 players of substance are aging. The latter remains to be seen, it might happen. But both opinions nearly always demonstrate no or very little understanding of Lyon's time here or Freo footy in general. It is based on hearsay at best and shows no sophistication or research ability whatsoever when it is sprouted out.

FWIW, I did see your posts as respectful enough. Thanks for popping in. Like I said, we're just sick of hearing that ridiculous line which is based on nothing but the fact that the Saints, a club that is run quite differently to Freo, had terrible recruiting period and basically no youth of notable talent to develop while Lyon was there.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Mostly I meant that they lack pace. What makes McPharlin such a great defender is his ability to keep up with fast leading forwards. That's why he's effective on guys like Buddy Franklin and Tex Walker while our other defenders aren't. Zac Dawson is very good at playing on contested marking forwards like Hawkins or Tippett but you wouldn't want him on Buddy or Gunston.

Naturally though, you get loser and lose that quick start and your muscles get sorer for longer. I think that big positive for Luke, being able to play as a half-back flanker and find space and kick it long into the midfield or wings, is something that'll go missing and be his downfall. How many times did he show that in 2014? The other question is how many great games did he play in 2014? He was on the ground for 13 matches and in the second half of the season, was walking injured or not on the whiteboard. People on this forum will always propose la-la-land hypotheticals of no injuries, but they're a part of football. You have to be rational and impartial – a year older, coming off an average season, injury prone... how many games is McPharlin going to play for Freo? How many games are going to be great?

People love to espouse 'role player' mentality and of course McPharlin is the only one to really fill a role. But you need guys with actual ability and talent. Luke has the latter but I'm not sold on the idea he can still perform to a top four level.

When you're bottoming out and bringing in fresh faced young punks, it's good to have older heads around. They make little comments, they set examples, and they're good for morale and an extra, relevant coach from kids who need it. They can afford to play a few games and help on-field and they're worth the spot on the list. But when you're challenging for a flag*, do you seriously think Hawthorn or Sydney would have someone like that?

If we had O'Keefe we'd be throwing a contract in front of him and touting him as somehow beneficial for Neale, Grey, or Ballard. But the Swans realise O'Keefe's worth has come and gone and what he'd offer in 2015 is way less than what he offered in 2014 (some pretty good games but what, only about five of them).

People might combat that with the Hawks and Mitchell and Hodge. But those guys are absolute guns. They only have a couple of seasons left, probably, but they're never going to be displaced and if you took them out, Hawthorn probably wouldn't be as great as they are. I think if you keep McPharlin, at his injury riddled and drastically decreased ability, then Freo are as good with him and without him. It's not like Lukey's out there playing 18 games and starring in them.

I'm honestly concerned with the age of important players and the lack of intense development with the younger guys. Neale has been good, Fyfe is a ripper, but when Sandilands, McPharlin, Pav, and Mundy are the guys who need to click to win a flag... you are in trouble. There'll be a grim reality check in five years when the Victorian boys want to piss off home, Neale and Fyfe are the governors with no one to spread the wealth too, and we keep hanging onto the "but he's only 25!" mentality. The buzzwords, "list management" and "Bond" and "Lyon" and "drafting" are very overrated amongst our own. I'm just saying.

* I don't think Freo are contenders anyway. The side missed their chance. Good luck getting past an angry Sydney and a stellar Hawthorn who have Frawley and O'Rourke and will no doubt elevate some serviceable 21-year old ala Duryea and Litherland

 

[Kram]

Yeah having McPharlin play on does smell a bit of desperation unfortunately. And if another person suggests that he can play up forward next year I'm gonna lose it.

 

[Clems Knee]

I reckon McPharlin would be a good get as a forward next year.
What do you guys reckon?

 

[PapaJ]

Naturally though, you get loser and lose that quick start and your muscles get sorer for longer. I think that big positive for Luke, being able to play as a half-back flanker and find space and kick it long into the midfield or wings, is something that'll go missing and be his downfall. How many times did he show that in 2014? The other question is how many great games did he play in 2014? He was on the ground for 13 matches and in the second half of the season, was walking injured or not on the whiteboard. People on this forum will always propose la-la-land hypotheticals of no injuries, but they're a part of football. You have to be rational and impartial – a year older, coming off an average season, injury prone... how many games is McPharlin going to play for Freo? How many games are going to be great?

People love to espouse 'role player' mentality and of course McPharlin is the only one to really fill a role. But you need guys with actual ability and talent. Luke has the latter but I'm not sold on the idea he can still perform to a top four level.

When you're bottoming out and bringing in fresh faced young punks, it's good to have older heads around. They make little comments, they set examples, and they're good for morale and an extra, relevant coach from kids who need it. They can afford to play a few games and help on-field and they're worth the spot on the list. But when you're challenging for a flag*, do you seriously think Hawthorn or Sydney would have someone like that?

If we had O'Keefe we'd be throwing a contract in front of him and touting him as somehow beneficial for Neale, Grey, or Ballard. But the Swans realise O'Keefe's worth has come and gone and what he'd offer in 2015 is way less than what he offered in 2014 (some pretty good games but what, only about five of them).

People might combat that with the Hawks and Mitchell and Hodge. But those guys are absolute guns. They only have a couple of seasons left, probably, but they're never going to be displaced and if you took them out, Hawthorn probably wouldn't be as great as they are. I think if you keep McPharlin, at his injury riddled and drastically decreased ability, then Freo are as good with him and without him. It's not like Lukey's out there playing 18 games and starring in them.

I'm honestly concerned with the age of important players and the lack of intense development with the younger guys. Neale has been good, Fyfe is a ripper, but when Sandilands, McPharlin, Pav, and Mundy are the guys who need to click to win a flag... you are in trouble. There'll be a grim reality check in five years when the Victorian boys want to piss off home, Neale and Fyfe are the governors with no one to spread the wealth too, and we keep hanging onto the "but he's only 25!" mentality. The buzzwords, "list management" and "Bond" and "Lyon" and "drafting" are very overrated amongst our own. I'm just saying.

* I don't think Freo are contenders anyway. The side missed their chance. Good luck getting past an angry Sydney and a stellar Hawthorn who have Frawley and O'Rourke and will no doubt elevate some serviceable 21-year old ala Duryea and Litherland

I'm with you to a point, I'm not convinced on McPharlin either. My gut feeling is that it was the wrong call, but I struggle to say it. Sounds sacrilege to do so because I've loved the guy and what he's brought to the team. However, if he genuinely thinks he can go on, and the club think they can make it work, well you've got to be in boots and all so I'll resist my doubts and stay hopeful until we see how it all washes up.

As for the rest, e.g. the reality check in 5 years. Well 5 years we don't know what will happen, but suggesting that Neale and Fyfe will be forcing our Victorians home is just speculation at its extreme. Every team is bound to a cap, so there's always managing that - but if we're going to base future predictions on actual recent evidence rather than pessimistic defeatism, then we've got a very good track record of balancing our TPP and list in general.

 

[rgauci]

McPharlin got brownlow votes this year. Problem was it was April or May. We need those games in September, I'm banking on the fitness staff timing his run better.

 

[Silent Alarm]

I'm with you to a point, I'm not convinced on McPharlin either. My gut feeling is that it was the wrong call, but I struggle to say it. Sounds sacrilege to do so because I've loved the guy and what he's brought to the team. However, if he genuinely thinks he can go on, and the club think they can make it work, well you've got to be in boots and all so I'll resist my doubts and stay hopeful until we see how it all washes up.

As for the rest, e.g. the reality check in 5 years. Well 5 years we don't know what will happen, but suggesting that Neale and Fyfe will be forcing our Victorians home is just speculation at its extreme. Every team is bound to a cap, so there's always managing that - but if we're going to base future predictions on actual recent evidence rather than pessimistic defeatism, then we've got a very good track record of balancing our TPP and list in general.

I didn't mean to imply Fyfe and Neale would force anyone out. Regardless of cap space or chances, people will leave Freo – and the players who most commonly go home are from Victoria.

 

[PapaJ]

I didn't mean to imply Fyfe and Neale would force anyone out. Regardless of cap space or chances, people will leave Freo – and the players who most commonly go home are from Victoria.

Well, in 5 years time the ability for players to pick and choose is almost certainly going to increase rather than decrease, so yeah, it's possible. But, again, we've got a pretty good track record of holding our home grown non-WA talent.

What I'm really saying is that the McPharlin thing is on our doorstep so pessimism on him playing on this year makes sense, but which players may want out in 5 years is not really anything I can be too concerned about myself. Too much water to go under the bridge on that one - but each to their own I suppose.

 

[Arcassius]

I didn't mean to imply Fyfe and Neale would force anyone out. Regardless of cap space or chances, people will leave Freo – and the players who most commonly go home are from Victoria.

That's true - the West Australians are already home, and who would ever go back to SA?

 

[yoong]

To be fair. I think MacPharlin would be asked to move on had we managed to get Frawley. His announcement to go another year was after it's clear Frawley is going to Hawthorne.

Luke is probably not the solution, but is there an immediate answer on how to fill the KPD gap? Maybe Silvagni, but he and Tanner Smith had been injury prone too, so a proven backup will be handy.

I think they will get games, since I believe that MacPharlin shouldn't be playing the majority of them. The thing with soft tissue and older players is that they tend to need a longer recovery period or the stress will be cumulative and end up in injury. I hope we'll play him for not more that 15 games.

 

[go_the_dockers]

I get where you are coming from, but Lyon does have some history in this area doesn't he (See St. Kilda)? Outside of Lachie Neale (who is no rookie now), how much youth have you developed over the past two seasons? Are you well placed in 2016-18?

We have a very good group of players 25 and under, we don't have many players between 26 and 30 but I can't see us being out of the top 8 for a while.

Taberner, Apeness, Morabito, Crozier, Clarke, Neale, Sheridan will all have better season next year. They just need to make up for the decline in Pav, Johnson and Sandi.

 

[salim malik]

Nick Reiwoldt was finished before last season according to some and look at the wonderful season he had.
Wouldnt it be a good idea to at least wait until after pre season until Luke is written off

 

[salim malik]

We have a very good group of players 25 and under, we don't have many players between 26 and 30 but I can't see us being out of the top 8 for a while.

Taberner, Apeness, Morabito, Crozier, Clarke, Neale, Sheridan will all have better season next year. They just need to make up for the decline in Pav, Johnson and Sandi.

Didnt see much decline in Sandi 014,all Australian probably relates to not a half bad season.
Johnno's back problems hopefully have been sorted out and he should have a good run at it.
Have to agree on Pav

 

[Taylor]

Nick Reiwoldt was having a super season until he jarred his knee in that early game in New Zealand. He just wasn't the same after that.

 

[salim malik]

Nick Reiwoldt was having a super season until he jarred his knee in that early game in New Zealand. He just wasn't the same after that.

Didnt he make the all Ausie side 014?

 

[Taylor]

Didnt he make the all Ausie side 014?

...and he was having an even better year prior to the knee jarring.

 

[clogged]

McPharlin got brownlow votes this year. Problem was it was April or May. We need those games in September, I'm banking on the fitness staff timing his run better.

Not going to happen. He has broken down towards the end of the last three seasons.

The fitness staff aren't going to magically make a 33 year old man fitter at the right time after 9-10 months of intensive training.

 

[rgauci]

Not going to happen. He has broken down towards the end of the last three seasons.

The fitness staff aren't going to magically make a 33 year old man fitter at the right time after 9-10 months of intensive training.

Why put the hard yards into him through Jan-Feb. I bet we see a mini preseason from him in May/June, he won't do much this summer. Look forward to seeing if the preseason reports confirm my suspicion.

 

[Taylor]

If McPharlin is fit but underdone does he still offer more than the next best? (Silvani?)

I don't think Alex has had a proper preseason in years, he has been in a boot, had a groin injection infection and never had a clear run at it.