Explain this to me

[Fat Red]

Mr Howard

I am from Afghanistan. When I was there, I was persecuted by the Taliban.

The Taliban are evil. You agree about this, because you are fighting a war against them.

So surely I am a genuine refugee? Why do you have to lock me up?

 

[mantis]

Gawd Fat Red, you are just itching for a fight today aren't you.

First that topic on the footy board & now this.

 

[Fat Red]

LOL, good pickup Mantis.

I'm enjoying the other one, btw

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by Fat Red
Mr Howard

I am from Afghanistan. When I was there, I was persecuted by the Taliban.

The Taliban are evil. You agree about this, because you are fighting a war against them.

So surely I am a genuine refugee? Why do you have to lock me up?

I am from Afghanistan
When I was there, I was persecuted by the Taliban.

The Taliban are evil. Nope, the Talban are muslim extremists.

You agree about this, because you are fighting a war against them. Nope......we are fighting a war against terorism. If Bin Laden had been surrendered and terrorist camps torn down there would not have been a war against the Taliban.

So surely I am a genuine refugee? How do I know you are not a Muslim extremist coming here with an extremist Muslim agenda?

Why do you have to lock me up? Because we have an immigration system, we need to protect our citizens, there are millions who would like to come here...and why should you jump the queue? If you don't like the process then why don't yoo go home...the Taliban is histoty now!!!

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by mantis
Gawd Fat Red, you are just itching for a fight today aren't you.

First that topic on the footy board & now this.

Gosh I enjoy the intellectual stimulation of input from Wormtongue

 

[Darky]

Originally posted by Fat Red
Mr Howard

I am from Afghanistan. When I was there, I was persecuted by the Taliban.

The Taliban are evil. You agree about this, because you are fighting a war against them.

So surely I am a genuine refugee? Why do you have to lock me up?

The question in my mind is not over letting in Afghan refugees, whom I consider genuine.

Given that all we have to base our opinions on are media reports (unless someone has inside sources somewhere), the coverage given to the refugee crisis is that many of them are not from Afghanistan.

When any sort of documentation which helps to authenticate identity and origin is absent (perhaps deliberately absent), how can one verify anything at all?

I am not fully aware of the extent of political instability in countries other than Afghansitan due to a general lack of media reports, so while not dismissing that other nationals might be genuine, it's a very hard puzzle to piece together.

 

[mantis]

Originally posted by Frodo


Gosh I enjoy the intellectual stimulation of input from Wormtongue

As opposed to your childish name calling trolls.

 

[Santos L Helper]

Re: Re: Explain this to me

Originally posted by Frodo


If you don't like the process then why don't yoo go home...the Taliban is histoty now!!!

Because you have all bombed our country and innocent people into oblivion................we have no home.

 

[Frodo]

Re: Re: Re: Explain this to me

Originally posted by Santos L Helper


Because you have all bombed our country and innocent people into oblivion................we have no home.

Interesting viewpoint.

Now if it were Australia that were bombed then I would be the first to want to come home and rebuild it.

And......Afghanistan and it's people bombed to oblivion? Hardly, well undere 1% of the population were killed or injured. Less than three months of killing and injuries that were LAW under the Taliban. Hardly oblivion.

Just maybe, along with millions of others, they see a far better life in Australia and want to queue jump. After all, who are they now running from in Afghanistan? Iraq, maybe.....some may have offended Saddam and to retuirn would put their life in peril, but not Afghanistan.

 

[1AD]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Explain this to me

Originally posted by Frodo



Just maybe, along with millions of others, they see a far better life in Australia and want to queue jump. After all, who are they now running from in Afghanistan? Iraq, maybe.....some may have offended Saddam and to retuirn would put their life in peril, but not Afghanistan.

Explain then why out of the 12,000 "official" refugees taken in by Australia last year , just over half where from the former Yugolslavia (Bosnia etc).

Wher is the peril there now?
Are they different ?

Ask the SAS soldier that had half his foot blown off how safe Afghanistan is.

 

[Santos L Helper]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Explain this to me

Originally posted by Frodo


Interesting viewpoint.

Now if it were Australia that were bombed then I would be the first to want to come home and rebuild it.

And......Afghanistan and it's people bombed to oblivion? Hardly, well undere 1% of the population were killed or injured. Less than three months of killing and injuries that were LAW under the Taliban. Hardly oblivion.

Just maybe, along with millions of others, they see a far better life in Australia and want to queue jump. After all, who are they now running from in Afghanistan? Iraq, maybe.....some may have offended Saddam and to retuirn would put their life in peril, but not Afghanistan.

Firstly Frodo, if it were Australia we would have some sort of economy to put the pieces back together, Afghanistan does not.
Maybe they are still trying to escape the 'heroin producing, only marginally better than the Taliban' Norhtern Alliance government which is now the official USA sanctioned government?

 

[Pies rock]

I'm from a migrant background (France) and we all detest these refugees. My family went through hell when they lived in Egypt in the 50's when all the Europeans were being abused and killed for being in their country. However, they didn't jump on a boat and try and force their way into Australia. Why? Because it's unfair on thousands of others who are trying to do the right thing, do it fairly and not abuse the laws. These boat people are not genuine, they are sneaky, devious slime who should be turned away. The only way my family and myself can look at these people is with total and utter hatred. My family members were killed because of these types of people. They jump the queue which means it takes longer for the law abiding refugees to be processed and moved to their new country. Thus, they suffered for years longer than they should have. Anyone who feels sorrow for these bloody rotten bastards doesn't understand the whole situation...

 

[Santos L Helper]

Originally posted by Pies rock
I'm from a migrant background (France) and we all detest these refugees. My family went through hell when they lived in Egypt in the 50's when all the Europeans were being abused and killed for being in their country. However, they didn't jump on a boat and try and force their way into Australia. Why? Because it's unfair on thousands of others who are trying to do the right thing, do it fairly and not abuse the laws. These boat people are not genuine, they are sneaky, devious slime who should be turned away. The only way my family and myself can look at these people is with total and utter hatred. My family members were killed because of these types of people. They jump the queue which means it takes longer for the law abiding refugees to be processed and moved to their new country. Thus, they suffered for years longer than they should have. Anyone who feels sorrow for these bloody rotten bastards doesn't understand the whole situation...

Sentence number 2 gives you away as not possibly seeing this with an open mind. How the hell does your families plight mean that anyone who feels sympathy for these people doesn't understand the situation?

 

[Fat Red]

Originally posted by Pies rock
My family went through hell when they lived in Egypt in the 50's when all the Europeans were being abused and killed for being in their country. However, they didn't jump on a boat and try and force their way into Australia.

I don't want to be insensitive, but surely they didn't need to as they could go back to France?


Could you please explain how people getting on boats caused your family members to be killed, I don't understand the connection.

 

[stemline]

It is absolutely criminal that these people are being locked up under the conditions that they are in. There is no good excuse for the length of time they have been held captive. Their claims should be processed and their applications granted or denied.

The utter lack of any compassion by the Australian Goverment is shameful.
The Government's appealing to, and fuelling of, the worst trait of the community, homophobia, is disgusting.

It can't be an easy thing, it goes beyong simply 'jumping on a boat'. You have to be desperate as all hell. You are basically running for your life.

To say that you have a similar background, ie refugee, and then to say you have nothing but hatred and disgust for these people is incredibly hippocritical. Your lack of understanding, when in a position to understand their desperation, paints you in an ugly light.

The conditions they are held in now, where they are not allowed their own clothes, they are not allowed contact with people outside, women must queue openly for sanitary pads (coming from a culture where these things are extremely private, just shows the lack of human compassion being shown these people.

We are talking about children, held in a prison for years now. No trial, no charges. Just waiting.
The act of pulling strips of linnen through your lips with a piece of wire is not the act of a 'sneeky, devious slime', it is the act of a desperate people being treated like animals.

The kind of utter hatred being talked about here has no place in this country. To hate them for their desperation, when you were welcomed into this country with open arms, is wrong.

 

[Pies rock]

Originally posted by Fat Red


I don't want to be insensitive, but surely they didn't need to as they could go back to France?


Could you please explain how people getting on boats caused your family members to be killed, I don't understand the connection.

OK, firstly the situation was rather hostile at the time. The people that were moving them didn't exactly give them a 'free choice' which country they could go to. There was a war on in Egypt at the time (started just after they arrived) and the Arabs wanted all Europeans out of there, so they weren't exactly being treated well when they wre being deported. There were strict guidelines of what people moved out of the country and where they were going, so there was no way they would let them go back to France.

I had two great uncles killed because of the long delays in processing their departure. There were numerous groups at the time, the best were the ones that were moving them (altho they were far from nice), and they were planned to move straight away. However, there were a few that just wanted to kill and torture any European they could find (ethnic cleansing). Apparently there were boat people even back then who tried to jump the queue, and they had to halt everyone who was preparing to leave. About two weeks after they were meant to leave, they were hunted down and killed. Naturally, my family felt very angry towards these boat people, and similar incidents could be happening today. The delay because of the boat people meant two people very close to them were killed and it's probably happening at the moment. They don't deserve sorrow, they are putting thousands of other lives at risk, they can rot in hell for all I care. They should be entering the queue and not stopping others from leaving...

 

[Damp Squarie]

Originally posted by Fat Red
Mr Howard

I am from Afghanistan. When I was there, I was persecuted by the Taliban.

The Taliban are evil. You agree about this, because you are fighting a war against them.

So surely I am a genuine refugee? Why do you have to lock me up?

Little Johnny Replys....
Im sorry You're mumbling I cant hear a word you're saying.
Are you a Ventriloquist?

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by stemline
It is absolutely criminal that these people are being locked up under the conditions that they are in. There is no good excuse for the length of time they have been held captive. .

Agreed.........they should have been sent back the day after they arrived. Stuff the processing and red tape...make it clear to the world...come to Australia illegally and you don't get a 'go to jail' card you just het sent back to 'go' immediately.

 

[Voice of Reason]

Originally posted by stemline
It is absolutely criminal that these people are being locked up under the conditions that they are in. There is no good excuse for the length of time they have been held captive. Their claims should be processed and their applications granted or denied.

This is a very emotional response that only looks at one side. All government processes take time. These people have entered the country illegally. You and I do not know the length of time compared to other "genuine" immigrants who have observed the correct process. The illegal immigrants have caused the conditions to deteriorate by wrecking the compounds (unless you are alleging a conspiracy where all that was made up or caused by Australian officials).

The utter lack of any compassion by the Australian Goverment is shameful.
The Government's appealing to, and fuelling of, the worst trait of the community, homophobia, is disgusting..

I don't like some of the views of some of the people in government either, but they have a difficult line to tread here. Why don't you recognise that?

It can't be an easy thing, it goes beyong simply 'jumping on a boat'. You have to be desperate as all hell. You are basically running for your life.

Agreed. Whether we should let despearate people who have no respect for our laws settle here permanently is very doubtful.

.To say that you have a similar background, ie refugee, and then to say you have nothing but hatred and disgust for these people is incredibly hippocritical. Your lack of understanding, when in a position to understand their desperation, paints you in an ugly light..

I'm an immigrant, but not a refugee, and I do have sympathy for them. However, I believe they should cooperate with our system.

.The conditions they are held in now, where they are not allowed their own clothes, they are not allowed contact with people outside, women must queue openly for sanitary pads (coming from a culture where these things are extremely private, just shows the lack of human compassion being shown these people..

I don't think you know much about the society they came from. Sanitory pads were and are an absolute luxury if they come from Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan or even Russia.

.We are talking about children, held in a prison for years now. No trial, no charges. Just waiting.
The act of pulling strips of linnen through your lips with a piece of wire is not the act of a 'sneeky, devious slime', it is the act of a desperate people being treated like animals..

I find this self-mutilation extremely disturbing. Everyone must take responsibliility for their own actions.

.The kind of utter hatred being talked about here has no place in this country. To hate them for their desperation, when you were welcomed into this country with open arms, is wrong. .

Agreed

 

[mantis]

Originally posted by Frodo


Agreed.........they should have been sent back the day after they arrived. Stuff the processing and red tape...make it clear to the world...come to Australia illegally and you don't get a 'go to jail' card you just het sent back to 'go' immediately.

Another very caring post from frodo, if he had his way, we would be living back in the days of medieval England, with the Lords of the land & the Serfs working for nothing & definitely no non aglo saxons allowed in the country.

Wonder what would have happened if the Aboriginals had of been able to apply those rules like frodo wants, where would most of us be now.
Where would the shiploads of convicts been allowed to land, not in Australia, guess they would have been sent back to England for execution for stealing a loaf of bread because their family was starving.

Waiting for the typical frodo juvenile reply of stupid bitch or childish name calling.

 

[Mobbs]

How long is the processing actually taking?

 

[B-Line]

Maybe we're doin the kids a favour by getting rid of some of the old pervs....

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,44067,00.html

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by mantis


Another very caring post from frodo, if he had his way, we would be living back in the days of medieval England, with the Lords of the land & the Serfs working for nothing & definitely no non aglo saxons allowed in the country.

Wonder what would have happened if the Aboriginals had of been able to apply those rules like frodo wants, where would most of us be now.
Where would the shiploads of convicts been allowed to land, not in Australia, guess they would have been sent back to England for execution for stealing a loaf of bread because their family was starving.

Waiting for the typical frodo juvenile reply of stupid bitch or childish name calling.

Didn't have to wait long ,Wormtonge did you Now why can you, in your very mature way , refer to me as Gollum ( real name Smeagol) and in the same breath call me juvenile for referring to you as another character out of Lord of the rings?

Not that you have read the book or even seen the movie so talking from your rear is once again your persuasion.

Now to refute this last rubbish. In medieval times the country had heaps of imigrants in England from all over Europe. In fact English was never spoken at court, only French and Latin.

As for your Aboriginal amusement there can be no doubt that Europeans took Australia as Terra Nullis. The aboriginal community of the time was so small as to be relatively insignificant. I am sure that if at the time of colonisation the Aboriginals had been a significant race then history would have been more like the american Indian situation........but is wasn't.

And again, Sandie, there must be more to life than just trolling in every thread I post to

 

[mantis]

Trolling, look who is talking the King of trolls, plus I wasn't trolling, I was replying to an uncaring post by yourself on the plight of the refugees, but I forgot, no one is allowed to post if their views differ to yours.

Oh & I read Lord of the rings when I was a kid, I have moved on to more adult reading material though now.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Frodo

Please define 'a significant race'

cheers