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Collingwood pro said:
Did people watch the same game, thought Witts was good, might not be the fastest but was able to create contests he created a few goals or at least one. Why do people want him out.
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Had a running argument with my brother all night. I think he's ben good this year. Dropped a couple of marks on Thursday but his tap work is generally good.
 
Exposed?

2 rucks wasn't the issue mate. Lachlan Keefe almost single handedly costing us the game combined with Buckley's mistakes with selection and positioning cost us the game. Amongst other things.

My mates wife who has no clue about footy even said on Saturday when we caught up "Oh my god that number 23 was sooooo bad. He was just running around like a headless chook doing nothing".

When someone who doesn't know the sport knows you played bad, you must have been really bad.
 
Despite being quiet Witts last two contests resulted in goals. The first he won a ground level ball after a good contest where he was outnumbered and handballed it to the player who goaled. The second he again was involved in a pack where he was outnumbered and the ball spilled over the top and we scored again. In a game where Adelaide managed to bottle us up really well on such a narrow ground I thought his contesting was important. Ironically we moved Keefe forward once Witts was subbed out and he looked totally out of his depth as a forward.
I think the obvious player who should have been subbed was Keefe once they decided they weren't going to continue with him on Jenkins, especially if we were going to still continue with a tall in the forward line in his place!
 

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Heavily Disagree that the 2 Rucks are Hurting us.

They where in our Better players Thursday Night.

Keeffe and not having enough Inside Mids had a Big Say on our Loss
 
Lots of people getting into Keeffe. We are just too young down back so KP backs will getting geting exposed and picked off, particularly when the midfield isn't on top.
Unfortunately we have list managed ourselves into the position where if our 3 gun mids do not dominate we can't beat quality sides.
They will not all dominate week in week out.
The gap is too big to our our second level mids. Not enough pace, skill, ball winning ability or grunt as a package.

This is why Reid has to play back and we have the solve the forward issues with forwards.
 
MarkT2 said:
Lots of people getting into Keeffe. We are just too young down back so KP backs will getting geting exposed and picked off, particularly when the midfield isn't on top.
Unfortunately we have list managed ourselves into the position where if our 3 gun mids do not dominate we can't beat quality sides.
They will not all dominate week in week out.
The gap is too big to our our second level mids. Not enough pace, skill, ball winning ability or grunt as a package.

This is why Reid has to play back and we have the solve the forward issues with forwards.
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Well Adams would give Ball Winning Ability and Grunt to the Midfield
 
MarkT2 said:
Lots of people getting into Keeffe. We are just too young down back so KP backs will getting geting exposed and picked off, particularly when the midfield isn't on top.
Unfortunately we have list managed ourselves into the position where if our 3 gun mids do not dominate we can't beat quality sides.
They will not all dominate week in week out.
The gap is too big to our our second level mids. Not enough pace, skill, ball winning ability or grunt as a package.

This is why Reid has to play back and we have the solve the forward issues with forwards.
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Seriously?

If our three gun mids don't dominate we are in trouble??

Jeeze that wouldn't happen at another club would it ????????

JEEZUZ H :rolleyes:
 
I think the main and critical difference with a Witts and Grundy or, a Witts or Grundy combo when comparing them to Jolly circa 2010 is that Jolls was very good a getting forward and kicking goals.
 
rand corp said:
I think the main and critical difference with a Witts and Grundy or, a Witts or Grundy combo when comparing them to Jolly circa 2010 is that Jolls was very good a getting forward and kicking goals.
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and Jolly was in his Prime in 2010 and Witts and Grundy are still just Kids
 
Shpeshal Ed said:
Exposed?

2 rucks wasn't the issue mate. Lachlan Keefe almost single handedly costing us the game combined with Buckley's mistakes with selection and positioning cost us the game. Amongst other things.

My mates wife who has no clue about footy even said on Saturday when we caught up "Oh my god that number 23 was sooooo bad. He was just running around like a headless chook doing nothing".

When someone who doesn't know the sport knows you played bad, you must have been really bad.
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Keefe didn't cost us the game. Jenkins might have kicked 4 goals, but how many times has a key forward kicked 4 goals yet their side has still lost? I'd wager it happens a fair bit.

Kicking 1 goal in a half of football cost us the game.
 
HeavyPop said:
Keefe didn't cost us the game. Jenkins might have kicked 4 goals, but how many times has a key forward kicked 4 goals yet their side has still lost? I'd wager it happens a fair bit.

Kicking 1 goal in a half of football cost us the game.
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Finally some common sense, our forward line is dysfunctional at the moment with Cloke out of form it throws not only the rest of the forward line out but the midfielders f50 entries as well.
 
jonbe54 said:
Finally some common sense, our forward line is dysfunctional at the moment with Cloke out of form it throws not only the rest of the forward line out but the midfielders f50 entries as well.
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Well if Drop Keeffe then would you Drop Cloke as well?
 

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TradeDraft said:
Well if Drop Keeffe then would you Drop Cloke as well?
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It's not as easy as that Dave, despite his demons he still draws the best defender and we have no one else with his presence. HE needs to be spelled in the magoos to pick up some confidence but WE would feel the difference without a player that commands respect from the opposition.
 
HeavyPop said:
Keefe didn't cost us the game. Jenkins might have kicked 4 goals, but how many times has a key forward kicked 4 goals yet their side has still lost? I'd wager it happens a fair bit.

Kicking 1 goal in a half of football cost us the game.
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Then why did we let Jenkins Kick 4 Goals then?
 
jonbe54 said:
Seriously?

If our three gun mids don't dominate we are in trouble??

Jeeze that wouldn't happen at another club would it ????????

JEEZUZ H :rolleyes:
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Another club - yes. Quite a few actually. Not the ones that win the flags though.

If you are completely reliant on your 3 top end mids to all dominate to win against the better sides then you aren't one of them.
In 2010 Wellingham was about our 7th or 8th best midfielder. Ball & Pendlebury had poor games in GF1 and we didn't lose.
After Sidebottom who is probably our 4th best mid there is a huge drop off and no capacity to make up for one of our big 3 not being at their best.

And what's with the sarcastic sooky posting all the time just because someone doesn't share your view of the world?
 
MarkT2 said:
Another club - yes. Quite a few actually. Not the ones that win the flags though.

If you are completely reliant on your 3 top end mids to all dominate to win against the better sides then you aren't one of them.
In 2010 Wellingham was about our 7th or 8th best midfielder. Ball & Pendlebury had poor games in GF1 and we didn't lose.
After Sidebottom who is probably our 4th best mid there is a huge drop off and no capacity to make up for one of our big 3 not being at their best.

And what's with the sarcastic sooky posting all the time just because someone doesn't share your view of the world?
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Probably its to do with the hysterical posturing of sooks after a loss :rolleyes:
 
HeavyPop said:
Kicking 1 goal in a half of football cost us the game.
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Clearly hard to win when that happens.
Interestingly we also kept Adelaide goaless for a decent stretch but didn't capitalise ourselves.
We have gotten away with poor kicking against poor or out of form sides this year. Not jusy goal kicking but field kicking under pressure.
It cost us against Geelong and Adelaide. It will cost us in September.
 
I can't believe our greatest mistake to a single player in the past 20 years, that was said to be a mistake many times by many fans, was throwing one of the best young kids in his draft, to the wolves to early, that made his confidence suffer badly, and he became not even half the player he promised to be in Josh Fraser, and we are stupidly doing it again. Brodie Grundy is Josh Fraser revisited. He was enthusiastic, and although not quiet as hard at it as Grundy in this early stage, he did have a bit more grunt to him in the earlier years, and this fell away quickly.

Grundy is a strange unit. He is the type of player that will get a mental issue to fight in his middle years in my opinion. Some may disagree, but I just don't trust the nature of his to be a no fuss player that just gets on with things. He is already showing confusion as to how to deal with his aggression in a sometimes very immature way.

The Collingwood Football Club, surely have to be more careful than they are, to increase the boys chances to not follow Josh Frasers footsteps step by step.

PLEASE, we recruited, retained and promoted Ben Hudson to take a chunk of the season on, so our young ruck stocks can go back and play some reserves football, where the constant pressure is not as big.

We have a few easier games in the upcoming week, maybe not West Coast, but the weeks after, that we need to bring Hudson in, and take that huge expectation off Grundy and Witts. Perhaps play Hudson and Grundy at times, Hudson and Witts at others, and Hudson and White at others. But Hudson needs to be more in the mix. I can't remember a game where I thought Hudson has to be dropped. He is a great competitor, and perhaps no where near as much x factor as Grundy, but he can play a role. Get him in, he shaved his beard off, to maybe give a vibe that he isn't just a washed up has been, so I am hoping he comes in, as early as this week in replacement of Witts.
 

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DNine said:
I can't believe our greatest mistake to a single player in the past 20 years, that was said to be a mistake many times by many fans, was throwing one of the best young kids in his draft, to the wolves to early, that made his confidence suffer badly, and he became not even half the player he promised to be in Josh Fraser, and we are stupidly doing it again. Brodie Grundy is Josh Fraser revisited. He was enthusiastic, and although not quiet as hard at it as Grundy in this early stage, he did have a bit more grunt to him in the earlier years, and this fell away quickly.

Grundy is a strange unit. He is the type of player that will get a mental issue to fight in his middle years in my opinion. Some may disagree, but I just don't trust the nature of his to be a no fuss player that just gets on with things. He is already showing confusion as to how to deal with his aggression in a sometimes very immature way.

The Collingwood Football Club, surely have to be more careful than they are, to increase the boys chances to not follow Josh Frasers footsteps step by step.

PLEASE, we recruited, retained and promoted Ben Hudson to take a chunk of the season on, so our young ruck stocks can go back and play some reserves football, where the constant pressure is not as big.

We have a few easier games in the upcoming week, maybe not West Coast, but the weeks after, that we need to bring Hudson in, and take that huge expectation off Grundy and Witts. Perhaps play Hudson and Grundy at times, Hudson and Witts at others, and Hudson and White at others. But Hudson needs to be more in the mix. I can't remember a game where I thought Hudson has to be dropped. He is a great competitor, and perhaps no where near as much x factor as Grundy, but he can play a role. Get him in, he shaved his beard off, to maybe give a vibe that he isn't just a washed up has been, so I am hoping he comes in, as early as this week in replacement of Witts.
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I see you are a Big Hudson Fan.

Hudson is there for a Just in Case not for Playing him over Witts and Grundy. If we Rest Grundy or Witts then White would become the 2nd Ruck. Though I agree Hudson would be the Better Choice over White.

Grundy is a strange unit. He is the type of player that will get a mental issue to fight in his middle years in my opinion. Some may disagree, but I just don't trust the nature of his to be a no fuss player that just gets on with things. He is already showing confusion as to how to deal with his aggression in a sometimes very immature way.
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So you think Grundy is a Spazo? and Turn into a Nutcase who be out of the League in a few years?

We get you don’t rate Grundy at all
 
TradeDraft said:
Then why did we let Jenkins Kick 4 Goals then?
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I suppose Jenkins played a good game. Just because we played bad, doesn't mean Adelaide weren't good. I thought we did pretty good to keep Adelaide to 10 goals with how bad we were across the ground.
 
HeavyPop said:
I suppose Jenkins played a good game. Just because we played bad, doesn't mean Adelaide weren't good. I thought we did pretty good to keep Adelaide to 10 goals with how bad we were across the ground.
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Well we did not let them give us a Flogging but still does not explain why Jenkins kicked 4 Goals. Yes he had a Good game but was that because Keeffe could not Stop Him?
 
MarkT2 said:
That's just crap. You were the same on the Essendon ASADA thread. Just put me on ignore so you don't get uptight when I'm not a delusional cheerleader.
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mmmm quite the tantrum - actually I couldn't be bothered, if my sarcasm annoys you so much perhaps you might consider doing as you suggested I do?
 

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