Coaching Staff Eye on our Coaching (Ratten, Lade, Batchelor, Slater sign on)

BringBackPowerFwds

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Does Longer need more ruck coaching or does he need some midfield coaching?
IMO he needs both. Longer is an interesting case. I recently read an article about him from 2013 and it quoted the following:

-Longer was also an exceptional basketballer and even took up the martial art of Muay Thai to complement his elite ball skills.

-His excellent year and strong leadership skills were also recognised with the captaincy of the victorious Vic Metro team and selection as the ruckman in the TAC Cup team of the year and the 2011 All-Australian team.

-At one stage he was being talked about as a possible top five selection, so when he drifted to eight, the Lions were happy to snare the big man.

If he had elite ball skills, why don't we see more of them on display? He only averages 8 possessions a game.
If he had strong leadership skills why have these skills not developed enough for him to be part of the leadership group?
If he was talked about as a top five pick why has he not lived up to that potential?

Lethlean, in a recent interview, when asked about Longer's re-signing commented that he needs to work hard, be professional...... The "be professional" comment made my ears prick up. I interpreted that comment as Lethlean saying that Billy was not doing everything possible to get the best out of himself.
Hopefully a strong preseason and the new assistant coaches will help Billy realise his potential because we certainly need him to stand up next year if we want to be relevant again.

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2013-10-25/the-billy-longer-story
 

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IMO he needs both. Longer is an interesting case. I recently read an article about him from 2013 and it quoted the following:

-Longer was also an exceptional basketballer and even took up the martial art of Muay Thai to complement his elite ball skills.

-His excellent year and strong leadership skills were also recognised with the captaincy of the victorious Vic Metro team and selection as the ruckman in the TAC Cup team of the year and the 2011 All-Australian team.

-At one stage he was being talked about as a possible top five selection, so when he drifted to eight, the Lions were happy to snare the big man.

If he had elite ball skills, why don't we see more of them on display? He only averages 8 possessions a game.
If he had strong leadership skills why have these skills not developed enough for him to be part of the leadership group?
If he was talked about as a top five pick why has he not lived up to that potential?

Lethlean, in a recent interview, when asked about Longer's re-signing commented that he needs to work hard, be professional...... The "be professional" comment made my ears prick up. I interpreted that comment as Lethlean saying that Billy was not doing everything possible to get the best out of himself.
Hopefully a strong preseason and the new assistant coaches will help Billy realise his potential because we certainly need him to stand up next year if we want to be relevant again.

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2013-10-25/the-billy-longer-story
Fair comments.
There are plenty who have good skills but just can't get their hands on it enough, Brodie Murdoch comes to mind.
I think the leadership group they tend to want players who will be best 22 each week, and that hasn't been the case for Longer.
He was an early pick. But so was Jack Watts. That's how we got Longer for peanuts, he was already a Holden Astra ex- demonstration model.
Why do any of them not live up to their potential?
 

gringo2011

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Fair comments.
There are plenty who have good skills but just can't get their hands on it enough, Brodie Murdoch comes to mind.
I think the leadership group they tend to want players who will be best 22 each week, and that hasn't been the case for Longer.
He was an early pick. But so was Jack Watts. That's how we got Longer for peanuts, he was already a Holden Astra ex- demonstration model.
Why do any of them not live up to their potential?

Longer should get some time before he's a write off. He's starting back a bit but plenty didn't come on until they were over 25.

Compare Longer and Gawn at 24, not much in it.
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...646&pid2=3346&fid1=A&fopt1=24&fid2=A&fopt2=24

Make Steph Martin look like a lemon

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...646&pid2=2718&fid1=A&fopt1=24&fid2=A&fopt2=24
 
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VDS66

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Why do any of them not live up to their potential?
It's between the ears as well as burning desire to put the work in.

Mates son tore it up at St Kilda City. Ayers approached to play at Port. Played a few games at Sandy and went back to local footy.

Made a few bucks and didnt have to bust his guts trying.
 

AirWinmar

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IMO he needs both. Longer is an interesting case. I recently read an article about him from 2013 and it quoted the following:

-Longer was also an exceptional basketballer and even took up the martial art of Muay Thai to complement his elite ball skills.

-His excellent year and strong leadership skills were also recognised with the captaincy of the victorious Vic Metro team and selection as the ruckman in the TAC Cup team of the year and the 2011 All-Australian team.

-At one stage he was being talked about as a possible top five selection, so when he drifted to eight, the Lions were happy to snare the big man.

If he had elite ball skills, why don't we see more of them on display? He only averages 8 possessions a game.
If he had strong leadership skills why have these skills not developed enough for him to be part of the leadership group?
If he was talked about as a top five pick why has he not lived up to that potential?

Lethlean, in a recent interview, when asked about Longer's re-signing commented that he needs to work hard, be professional...... The "be professional" comment made my ears prick up. I interpreted that comment as Lethlean saying that Billy was not doing everything possible to get the best out of himself.
Hopefully a strong preseason and the new assistant coaches will help Billy realise his potential because we certainly need him to stand up next year if we want to be relevant again.

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2013-10-25/the-billy-longer-story
My theory on Longer - Richo has pidgeon holed him to 'play a role' and not to kick under any circumstance. Never ubderstood this as he isnt such a bad kick. Personally i think if your told not to kick, you will be less motivated to win the ball even if its subcontious. Just a theory..
 
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My theory on Longer - Richo has pidgeon holed him to 'play a role' and not to kick under any circumstance. Never ubderstood this as he isnt such a bad kick. Personally i think if your told not to kick, you will be less motivated to win the ball even if its subcontious. Just a theory..
That's crap, he just doesn't get the ball enough to kick it.
Last game he played 6 of his 9 disposals were kicks
 

BringBackPowerFwds

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My theory on Longer - Richo has pidgeon holed him to 'play a role' and not to kick under any circumstance. Never ubderstood this as he isnt such a bad kick. Personally i think if your told not to kick, you will be less motivated to win the ball even if its subcontious. Just a theory..
There could be some validity to your theory AirWinmar. It could also be a confidence thing with Billy. He is not trusting himself enough to kick the ball and therefore always looking to handball. It's also got me stumped how a bloke his size can only take 1 or 2 marks per game. Is it work rate, lack of confidence or something else ? He has only got a one year contract, so it's now time for Billy to piss or get off the pot
 
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OK now i have to post the stats to prove my point.
Kicks as a percentage of total Disposals. From worst to best. 2018
Unfortunately StKilda ARE one of the most handballing teams.

Hugh Goddard 16%
Lewis Pierce 26%
Nathan Wright 28%
Nathan Brown 37%
Josh Bruce 37%
Tom Hickey 39%
Jack Steele 42%
Koby Stevens 42%
Billy Longer 43% So the kickingest of our rucks , except for Marshall
Mav Weller 44%
Daniel McKenzie 45%
Jack Sinclair 46%
Jarryn Geary 48%
Ben Long 48%
Freeman 48%
Billings 50%
Acres 50%
Armitage 51%
Dunstan 51%
Steven 51%
Phillips 51%
Clarke 52%
Paton 53%
Marshall 53%
Ross 53%
Gilbert 54%
Joyce 54%
Gresham 57%
Battle 58%
Coffield 58%
Carlisle 59%
Austin 61%
Newnes 62%
Lonie 62%
Webster 62%
Savage 64%
Membrey 67%
White 68%
Rice 70%
Roberton 70%
McCartin 72%
 

AirWinmar

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OK now i have to post the stats to prove my point.
Kicks as a percentage of total Disposals. From worst to best. 2018
Unfortunately StKilda ARE one of the most handballing teams.

Hugh Goddard 16%
Lewis Pierce 26%
Nathan Wright 28%
Nathan Brown 37%
Josh Bruce 37%
Tom Hickey 39%
Jack Steele 42%
Koby Stevens 42%
Billy Longer 43% So the kickingest of our rucks , except for Marshall
Mav Weller 44%
Daniel McKenzie 45%
Jack Sinclair 46%
Jarryn Geary 48%
Ben Long 48%
Freeman 48%
Billings 50%
Acres 50%
Armitage 51%
Dunstan 51%
Steven 51%
Phillips 51%
Clarke 52%
Paton 53%
Marshall 53%
Ross 53%
Gilbert 54%
Joyce 54%
Gresham 57%
Battle 58%
Coffield 58%
Carlisle 59%
Austin 61%
Newnes 62%
Lonie 62%
Webster 62%
Savage 64%
Membrey 67%
White 68%
Rice 70%
Roberton 70%
McCartin 72%
Fair point and thanks for posting those stats.intersting to see these ratios. i was going off the eye test and remember the occasions where Billy doesnt want to kick and then ends up handballing to someone under pressure instead
 

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AirWinmar

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There could be some validity to your theory AirWinmar. It could also be a confidence thing with Billy. He is not trusting himself enough to kick the ball and therefore always looking to handball. It's also got me stumped how a bloke his size can only take 1 or 2 marks per game. Is it work rate, lack of confidence or something else ? He has only got a one year contract, so it's now time for Billy to piss or get off the pot
Yep his own confidence could also be the reason and a good point. Really hope he gets it together this season and Brendon Lade being with us full time should give him the best shot
 

BringBackPowerFwds

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Fair point and thanks for posting those stats.intersting to see these ratios. i was going off the eye test and remember the occasions where Billy doesnt want to kick and then ends up handballing to someone under pressure instead
You eye is correct career wise.
2018 was an anomaly for Billy.
His career avg for kicking is 32.8%.
 
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You eye is correct career wise.
2018 was an anomaly for Billy.
His career avg for kicking is 32.8%.
That is kind of weird.

Its also weird when we see that he played 18 games in 2015 with 40% kicks but after missing 2016 played 17 games in 2017 with an incredibly low 15%. But it
was 2017 when he won the most hitouts. He also won more contested possessions and had more tackles in 2017. I guess its 2017 when most people remember watching him play. Against Melbourne he had 15 possessions ALL contested. I guess that makes it harder to find space. ( just 3 kicks that game ).

Seems that something is going on with him.
 

gringo2011

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Brett Ratten's record at Carlton is impressive. From the wooden spoon in 2006 to playing finals 3 years later. Finals again in 2010 and then nearly into a PF in 2011.
Did more in 5 years at Carlton than Richo has done at St Kilda.

My brother follows the Blues so I used to watch a bit of them in that era. They were good under Ratts, he was really screwed over by Carlton overrating their list. He had them playing a good brand of footy too.
 

Nutsngum

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Brett Ratten's record at Carlton is impressive. From the wooden spoon in 2006 to playing finals 3 years later. Finals again in 2010 and then nearly into a PF in 2011.
Did more in 5 years at Carlton than Richo has done at St Kilda.
Richo won 12 games in his third year.. which would have made finals in the 2009 year youre talking about.

Perhaps its time we lay off the constant Richo bashing and start realizing that the remainder of the comp also heavily effects finals positions?
 
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Richo won 12 games in his third year.. which would have made finals in the 2009 year youre talking about.

Perhaps its time we lay off the constant Richo bashing and start realizing that the remainder of the comp also heavily effects finals positions?
I may have finally got the subtle hint that some people here don't rate Richo and would like him gone.
Given that i've finally gotten the message into my thick head, and surely everyone else has as well, can we please please please stop posting all the crap about him every second post on every thread because he'll still be there until at least round 1 and its getting VERY BORING.

 

jwikked

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Can someone with a Herald Sun subscription hook us all up with the Brett Ratten interview?


Here you go bro:
Brett Ratten opens up on departure from Carlton, his new job at St Kilda and his coaching future
SAM EDMUND, Herald Sun
November 2, 2018 3:00pm
Subscriber only
BRETT Ratten says his senior coaching flame still flickers, believing the blame for poor results is more evenly shared than when he was sacked by Carlton in 2012.

Ratten, now happy as an assistant at St Kilda beside good mate Alan Richardson, was sacked by the Blues with a year to go on his contract despite an 11-11 season record and a fifth-place finish the year prior.

BANISHED: ONE POSITIVE FOR BLUES IN FIXTURE

EVERY CLUB RATED: WHICH TEAM HAS TOUGHEST DRAW?

History says Mick Malthouse took the Blues backwards as the highly-paid replacement.

Ratten, 47, isn’t bitter and remains content with an assistant coaching resume that includes three consecutive flags with Hawthorn and the potential for growth at the Saints.

But as a senior coach, if he wasn’t at the wrong place in 2012, he was certainly in the wrong time.

Damien Hardwick, Nathan Buckley, and even Richardson, are proof that football has adopted a more forgiving attitude towards its figureheads.

Mark Thompson was the anomaly in 2006, but may now be the norm.

“I think the industry has got it right. If someone has a bad year they actually show a bit of patience,” Ratten told the Herald Sun.


Brett Ratten at his new home, St Kilda Football Club. Picture: David Crosling
“The (football department) soft cap might have helped a bit, but I think clubs and the industry now have more of a commonsense approach and actually dig a bit deeper than actually just looking at the W and L next to people’s names.

“Whether people say you’re making excuses or this happened and that happened, there’s a reality sometimes.

“If you’ve used 41 players like we did at the Blues in my last year that’s actually a reality. It’s not trying to create something to pass blame, it’s something to consider in the argument.

“I think clubs are a lot more business savvy with that now and they make good decisions around their coaches and they’re a lot more supportive as opposed to the quick fix that doesn’t work.

“Brendon Gale at Richmond; it was fantastic to see him support ‘Dimma’ and the next minute they get success and I think that shows where the industry is heading now.”

Ratten’s coaching resume reads 60 wins, 59 losses and a draw. He led the Blues to four finals, with a 1-3 return, after taking over from Denis Pagan in mid-2007.

There’s clearly unfinished business, but whether he ever gets the chance remains unclear.

“Like anything in life, you don’t know what’s around the corner and what opportunity will present itself or what’s in front of you,” he said.

“Water will find its own level with that and if someone asks one day, then maybe. But I’m pretty happy doing what I’m doing and I’m excited to be at St Kilda.”


Brett Ratten calls the shots as Carlton coach in 2007.
Ratten hasn’t occupied the senior chair for six years, but has spent that time alongside Alastair Clarkson at the all-conquering Hawks.

He said his “man management” skills had improved and that he would no longer sweat the “small stuff” he admitted to doing at the Blues where he had a strong emotional attachment as a 255-game player.

Ratten’s appointment as the forwards coach at St Kilda is part of an off-field overhaul that has also seen Graeme Allan, Brendon Lade, new list manager James Gallagher and data analyst Darren O’Shaughnessy join the club.

“It’s a great challenge here with a young, but exciting list,” Ratten said of life at Moorabbin.

“There’s new facilities and this is a team that has played some good footy, but last year had a blip on the radar and are not where they want to be.

And in Richardson, the chemistry is already there.

“We had a great connection at the Blues and it’s great to rekindle that,” he said.

“Our kids play basketball together and we played vets years ago at Park Orchards.

“Gee, he could sneak forward Richo. Nothing had changed.”
 

Dr Spaceman

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I accept Richo may be a better coach than I believe he is.

I accept that 2017 may have just been a bad year for a any number of reasons.

I accept a lot of the blame for things that went wrong may lie with persons no longer at the club.

I accept we are probably better placed now to progress than we were at season's end.

I furthermore accept that I wouldn't have a clue about any of this and that I can't see what goes on behind closed doors.

But what worries me is the Richo who appears on 360 and on the Members videos. That is something we all can see and reality is he comes across as boring as batshit.

I just hope it's a case of on-camera nerves, and that away from the spotlight he suddenly morphs into some sort of Alan Killigrew on crack.

If he is able to motivate the team then that's great.

However they need to teach him how inspire we success starved supporters.
 
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