Coaching Staff Eye on our Coaching (Ratten, Lade, Batchelor, Slater sign on)
StCicatriz
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- Aug 3, 2016
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round 1: his inclusion of long looked good, but the forward structure still looks off. paddy looked slow asf. rucking bruce is also an on going problem. steele spent time on the wing, which was a bit strange.
He is clueless and has too much preconceptions.
Add in a lingering lisp...
CursingFijian
Knight of the Square Table
Whatever it takes?
CursingFijian
Knight of the Square Table
A good coach at the AFL level in this day and age has to be a human resource manager, with very strong planning and organisational skills, a thorough understanding of teaching techniques, a solid grasp of biomechanics learning, an expert understanding of modern game day tactics, and strong analytical and review skills. And then he must present well to corporate sponsors and the general market.
The job is enormous and is just too big for one person, and there are multiple layers of ‘staff’ that have to gel before a team can be ready to function at the highest level. Any disconnect at any level and the team splutters. Whether that is senior coach and the board of directors, senior coach and his line coaches, line coaches and the players, players and support staff (doctors, physios, nutritionists, trainers), or players and other players. A senior coach quite often finds himself engaged in ‘managing’ organisational situations as much as he is designing drills and laying out cones and teaching game tactics.
There is no use bringing in any new coach if it creates a disconnect. There is also no point in having the ‘best’ coaches if they can’t work in harmony and create a coaching environment that doesn’t distract from team performance. Sometimes a club that has harmony will prefer to develop from within rather than introduce unknown or known disruptive quantities.
I don’t believe any argument that Richo runs a closed circle. I think he has always been open to improving his line coaches. But he can only control what he can control. And that is, work hard to make the incumbent team better at there job. He certainly shouldn’t have a coaches wanted ad in the classifieds, because that just leads to disconnect.
I would say that Richo gets a LOT of the job right. But like Clarkson, Lyon, Longmire, Hardwick and others he’s not perfection. If he is like most coaches then he would not be too concerned with appeasing fans. He would be concerned with winning contests at a micro level and winning games at a macro level. Other than a win loss ratio there is nothing to suggest Richo is not valued by his players at the club. Player retention is good. Belief in the game plan is good. Player development is reasonable. Don’t get me wrong, we have our share of busts, but EVERY club is the same. If you can’t see that you aren’t looking hard enough. We don’t have any A+ graders you say? Brisbane had 4 or 5 today and we still clocked them, and the four best players on the park were in RWB. Any credit for that?
But lets accept the premise that Richo is not the best coach available to the club. And lets assume that Robert Harvey is the best coach for the club. Bringing Harvey in now would mean that he needs to assess all aspects of the team from the list to the game plan to the support staff and then make the changes that he wants. We would effectively be in at best, a mini rebuild, and at worst we would be back at the starting point.
Who in heck wants either of those two options right now? Not me. The only basis for sacking Richo in my book is if we are
% sure he can’t put the team into a position where it can contest for a premiership. And I think he can. We just need a little more improvement. And his track record for improvement is pretty good.
List balance is our issue in my opinion. Add Nankervis, Josh Kelly, and Peter Wright to our team and I think we are playing deep into September.
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The job is enormous and is just too big for one person, and there are multiple layers of ‘staff’ that have to gel before a team can be ready to function at the highest level. Any disconnect at any level and the team splutters. Whether that is senior coach and the board of directors, senior coach and his line coaches, line coaches and the players, players and support staff (doctors, physios, nutritionists, trainers), or players and other players. A senior coach quite often finds himself engaged in ‘managing’ organisational situations as much as he is designing drills and laying out cones and teaching game tactics.
There is no use bringing in any new coach if it creates a disconnect. There is also no point in having the ‘best’ coaches if they can’t work in harmony and create a coaching environment that doesn’t distract from team performance. Sometimes a club that has harmony will prefer to develop from within rather than introduce unknown or known disruptive quantities.
I don’t believe any argument that Richo runs a closed circle. I think he has always been open to improving his line coaches. But he can only control what he can control. And that is, work hard to make the incumbent team better at there job. He certainly shouldn’t have a coaches wanted ad in the classifieds, because that just leads to disconnect.
I would say that Richo gets a LOT of the job right. But like Clarkson, Lyon, Longmire, Hardwick and others he’s not perfection. If he is like most coaches then he would not be too concerned with appeasing fans. He would be concerned with winning contests at a micro level and winning games at a macro level. Other than a win loss ratio there is nothing to suggest Richo is not valued by his players at the club. Player retention is good. Belief in the game plan is good. Player development is reasonable. Don’t get me wrong, we have our share of busts, but EVERY club is the same. If you can’t see that you aren’t looking hard enough. We don’t have any A+ graders you say? Brisbane had 4 or 5 today and we still clocked them, and the four best players on the park were in RWB. Any credit for that?
But lets accept the premise that Richo is not the best coach available to the club. And lets assume that Robert Harvey is the best coach for the club. Bringing Harvey in now would mean that he needs to assess all aspects of the team from the list to the game plan to the support staff and then make the changes that he wants. We would effectively be in at best, a mini rebuild, and at worst we would be back at the starting point.
Who in heck wants either of those two options right now? Not me. The only basis for sacking Richo in my book is if we are
% sure he can’t put the team into a position where it can contest for a premiership. And I think he can. We just need a little more improvement. And his track record for improvement is pretty good.List balance is our issue in my opinion. Add Nankervis, Josh Kelly, and Peter Wright to our team and I think we are playing deep into September.
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You are way too sensible to be posting on BigFooty.A good coach at the AFL level in this day and age has to be a human resource manager, with very strong planning and organisational skills, a thorough understanding of teaching techniques, a solid grasp of biomechanics learning, an expert understanding of modern game day tactics, and strong analytical and review skills. And then he must present well to corporate sponsors and the general market.
The job is enormous and is just too big for one person, and there are multiple layers of ‘staff’ that have to gel before a team can be ready to function at the highest level. Any disconnect at any level and the team splutters. Whether that is senior coach and the board of directors, senior coach and his line coaches, line coaches and the players, players and support staff (doctors, physios, nutritionists, trainers), or players and other players. A senior coach quite often finds himself engaged in ‘managing’ organisational situations as much as he is designing drills and laying out cones and teaching game tactics.
There is no use bringing in any new coach if it creates a disconnect. There is also no point in having the ‘best’ coaches if they can’t work in harmony and create a coaching environment that doesn’t distract from team performance. Sometimes a club that has harmony will prefer to develop from within rather than introduce unknown or known disruptive quantities.
I don’t believe any argument that Richo runs a closed circle. I think he has always been open to improving his line coaches. But he can only control what he can control. And that is, work hard to make the incumbent team better at there job. He certainly shouldn’t have a coaches wanted ad in the classifieds, because that just leads to disconnect.
I would say that Richo gets a LOT of the job right. But like Clarkson, Lyon, Longmire, Hardwick and others he’s not perfection. If he is like most coaches then he would not be too concerned with appeasing fans. He would be concerned with winning contests at a micro level and winning games at a macro level. Other than a win loss ratio there is nothing to suggest Richo is not valued by his players at the club. Player retention is good. Belief in the game plan is good. Player development is reasonable. Don’t get me wrong, we have our share of busts, but EVERY club is the same. If you can’t see that you aren’t looking hard enough. We don’t have any A+ graders you say? Brisbane had 4 or 5 today and we still clocked them, and the four best players on the park were in RWB. Any credit for that?
But lets accept the premise that Richo is not the best coach available to the club. And lets assume that Robert Harvey is the best coach for the club. Bringing Harvey in now would mean that he needs to assess all aspects of the team from the list to the game plan to the support staff and then make the changes that he wants. We would effectively be in at best, a mini rebuild, and at worst we would be back at the starting point.
Who in heck wants either of those two options right now? Not me. The only basis for sacking Richo in my book is if we are
List balance is our issue in my opinion. Add Nankervis, Josh Kelly, and Peter Wright to our team and I think we are playing deep into September.
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Many likes.
+++++++
Saint Watto
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Great post there Cursing......great reading.
- Banned
- #1,460
Not much said but still better than 'pleasing & positive' being repeated 20 times.
Gangnam Saint
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- Oct 16, 2015
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With all due respect, so what?
Who cares?
The only important thing is the internal messaging and effect on the players.
The media work is superficial nonsense.
- Banned
- #1,462
You are right in the scheme of things its not significant, but you would think a guy on 800k a year after 5 years of the same dribble could improve his public speaking. Who is to say he is not the same behind closed doors at the club.
To put it into perspective Richo is earning twice what most public service CEO's earn. How long would they last not being able to manage the media in a professional manner. IMO his media persona is important to his role.
In short I just want the best for the club.
Gangnam Saint
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When Richo's media persona helps us win 4 points I'll care. Until then his salary in a private enterprise relative to a public sector CEO (?) is irrelevant.
You're projecting. And, you're assuming his external communication style is the same as his internal style - simple reasoning would suggest it is not but I know you are not interested in hearing it.
Cross posting from the Autopsy thread, with addenda.
I want to give the coaches a boost about now, we were defensively excellent especially considering how many centre clearances we lost, not only did we not concede we didn't roll back the forward line and midfield to congest the defensive area, there were times when the Lions had repeat entries in attack, yet we held both defensive and forward structures, when we did get the ball and ran it forward we had players waiting to receive and score. Unlike last year.
Three other possible contributing factors towinning, the new set up, possibly some weight loss and selecting a bench full of mids. It's been a long time since I've seen it; we ran out the game, no getting run over in the last five minutes of every quarter and we were full of running at the end of the fourth. For a change the boot was on the other foot. Individually or in combination these changes worked, Richo and the panel should be given kudos for that.
Our coaching is improving and the stark contrast to Collingwood's performance against Hawthorn, Collingwood players are trying their guts out, actually winning centre clearances in spite of Mitchells 54 possessions, but forward structures, defensive structures and transitions all abysmal. Collingwood will be on the end of some horrible losses this year, when all the team has is effort, it only takes a small drop in output for things to sink horribly, Collingwood's only hope is to play teams with structures as poor as their own.
I want to give the coaches a boost about now, we were defensively excellent especially considering how many centre clearances we lost, not only did we not concede we didn't roll back the forward line and midfield to congest the defensive area, there were times when the Lions had repeat entries in attack, yet we held both defensive and forward structures, when we did get the ball and ran it forward we had players waiting to receive and score. Unlike last year.
Three other possible contributing factors towinning, the new set up, possibly some weight loss and selecting a bench full of mids. It's been a long time since I've seen it; we ran out the game, no getting run over in the last five minutes of every quarter and we were full of running at the end of the fourth. For a change the boot was on the other foot. Individually or in combination these changes worked, Richo and the panel should be given kudos for that.
Our coaching is improving and the stark contrast to Collingwood's performance against Hawthorn, Collingwood players are trying their guts out, actually winning centre clearances in spite of Mitchells 54 possessions, but forward structures, defensive structures and transitions all abysmal. Collingwood will be on the end of some horrible losses this year, when all the team has is effort, it only takes a small drop in output for things to sink horribly, Collingwood's only hope is to play teams with structures as poor as their own.
- Banned
- #1,465
I was not suggesting his communication style is the same internally at all. Perhaps I didn't express it as I should - I was asking how do you know it is not?
No Richo's pressers dont win 4 points, however that is quite a short sighted view.
What his media appearances should do is excite the fan base, give them belief and which would help to encourage there attendance at games, to purchase memberships and merchandise. Basically to sell the club in the best manner he can in a commercial sense. I dont think Richo achieves that.
Ross Lyon early on wasnt the greatest media performer either but over time he learnt how to work them and now they love him. Its just a small piece in the puzzle but why shouldnt we expect better from Richo?
Gangnam Saint
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No onfield results matter, the optics of being a polished media performer do not.
He will sell far more memberships, excite more supporters and get bums on seat by having a successful side.
Successfully coaching his own lower league side to flags, being a successful assistant and taking a woodedspoon side to the verge of finals suggests his internal communication style is far different to the bland media persona he portrays.
But I would have thought that was obvious.
- Banned
- #1,467
Agreed a sucessful team would improve the above, but he hasnt had that for 4 years. In fact he took Watters team from 9th to last. He seems to be a guy that is interested in continued improvement - so why for the benefit of him and the club is improving his media persona such a difficult task?
Kildonan
Premium Platinum
What do you think of St Kilda's transitions? I think the club performed very well in that aspect of play against Brisbane. Maybe having a transition coach is a step ahead of clubs who only have line coaches. Maybe we are innovating. Isn't that what you want? What we all want?
All clubs have to address the successful tactics of the premiers. Both on how to deal with it defensively and whether or not to incorporate aspects into their own playbooks.
I want to hear commentators talking about the St Kilda style of play being adopted by other clubs. Maybe we have to win a premiership first, but I think we are innovating and I would like to see how this plays out.
Go & look at the list in 2013 & the list now.
We were in full rebuild mode.
Richo’s performances in the media ranks at about 245 of 246 in order of importance in delivering us a flag.
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A learning from life:
When I was a wee lad, every Sunday my father and I would gather in front of the B&W at 12 to watch World of Sport.
There was Lou, Jack and Bobby doing their thing. Ron controlling the circus and Uncle Doug extolling the virtues of various products.
Apart from the panel discussion about the games the day prior, each coach would appear in conjunction with the opposition coach to answer questions about their game.
We had the media performers: EJ, Barassi, Tommy Hafey. Even Bobby Rose.
And all I had to look forward to was this big eared, taciturn copper who: never smiled, never answered questions in words of more than one syllable, quite clearly wanted to be elsewhere and had one of the worst media personalities ever. Even allowing for the time.
Oh how I wished we had EJ, or Barass, or one of the other media stars coaching us. That would make the Saints so much better, and I could brag about our coach at school.
Little did I know then, as I know now, that we had the best coach.
So I empathise with people’s frustrations.
But that’s it.
Could not care a tinker’s cuss about Richo’s media performances.
That’s not what would get my rocks off about our coach.
Having this group play to their potential would.
When I was a wee lad, every Sunday my father and I would gather in front of the B&W at 12 to watch World of Sport.
There was Lou, Jack and Bobby doing their thing. Ron controlling the circus and Uncle Doug extolling the virtues of various products.
Apart from the panel discussion about the games the day prior, each coach would appear in conjunction with the opposition coach to answer questions about their game.
We had the media performers: EJ, Barassi, Tommy Hafey. Even Bobby Rose.
And all I had to look forward to was this big eared, taciturn copper who: never smiled, never answered questions in words of more than one syllable, quite clearly wanted to be elsewhere and had one of the worst media personalities ever. Even allowing for the time.
Oh how I wished we had EJ, or Barass, or one of the other media stars coaching us. That would make the Saints so much better, and I could brag about our coach at school.
Little did I know then, as I know now, that we had the best coach.
So I empathise with people’s frustrations.
But that’s it.
Could not care a tinker’s cuss about Richo’s media performances.
That’s not what would get my rocks off about our coach.
Having this group play to their potential would.
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Not every day you read "tinker's cuss." More a fan of Blighty's rat's tossbag myself.
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Python influence
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certainly nothing wrong with that
- Banned
- #1,474
I also watched the show and it was 45 years ago. The difference with Jeans and Richo is one had on field sucess the other hasnt and its a very different AFL environment these days.
I dont dislike Richo I think he is a wonderful guy. I have just been expressing my frustrations regarding his short comings because I want the best for him and the club.
It was obvious Richo had been struggling at times on game days - which he himself has admitted he had become too autocratic and wasnt listening to his assistants.
The appointment of Playfair was a great move by the club attracting intellectual property from a leading successful AFL club. That is my issue with our other assistants I think we need up to date leading edge intellectual coaching ideas from other sucessful AFL clubs to fill the any tactical voids.
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