Coaching Staff Eye on our Coaching (Ratten, Lade, Batchelor, Slater sign on)

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holllywood said:
There was another thread roasting our goal kicking but here is some food for thought and adding to what LonietoMcCartin said;

Our forwards (apart from Roo) have been inexcusable;

Bruce - 7.7
Membrey- 7.5
Gresham - 6.9
Weller - 5.7
Lonie - 3.5
Billings - 2.6
Ross- 1.4

Fix this up, and things will look a lot better.
Click to expand...
Spot on, all sides have deficiency in their side but our main issue is our forwards inability to gel and click we fix this up and we would be ok going forward,then you add more of what you need after that.
 
Saintbloke said:
Bad kicking is bad football- it's a team skill deficiency and it really falls back on the coach. He has been there a few years now, and I don't see much improving. The forward line has had no real obvious structure all season, the forwards seem intent on trying to out-muscle their opponents rather than making big efforts to get in the clear and provide an option, and the midfield when they get the ball, don't seem to have any idea who and where they should be kicking, and just bomb it- again, a team discipline issue with the ball and it falls at the coach's feet. I'm getting a bit sick of excuses, and players being singled out for blame- it's a team game, and the team should be performing a whole lot better at this stage.
Click to expand...
A worthy point, and at this stage I'd like to put Aaron Hamill under the microscope.

He's our current forwards coach (and obviously a Saints star from his playing days), but I believe his coaching history started with him being a part-time kicking coach for some of our forwards. While a line coach doesn't need as much training as the main coach, it seems that he is failing right now, so it's fair to question his appointment. As a player, he was known far more for his intense pressure in the forward line than goal kicking or marking iirc. To that end, we seem to have developed our forward pressure but not goal kicking or lead up work. Additionally, i don't know what it's like now, but i remember a season or so ago other posters being surprised with his poor communication with one of our forwards, maybe Paddy(?) Time for a review?
 
austinnn said:
A worthy point, and at this stage I'd like to put Aaron Hamill under the microscope.

He's our current forwards coach (and obviously a Saints star from his playing days), but I believe his coaching history started with him being a part-time kicking coach for some of our forwards. While a line coach doesn't need as much training as the main coach, it seems that he is failing right now, so it's fair to question his appointment. As a player, he was known far more for his intense pressure in the forward line than goal kicking or marking iirc. To that end, we seem to have developed our forward pressure but not goal kicking or lead up work. Additionally, i don't know what it's like now, but i remember a season or so ago other posters being surprised with his poor communication with one of our forwards, maybe Paddy(?) Time for a review?
Click to expand...


Yeah it's more their line coach IMO. The senior coach shouldn't have to be all over the goal kicking practice, they can design drills to account for fatigue but they would all do that now. Sometimes it can just be some kind of mental thing and goes through the team. This year we seem to be a lot more mobile which must wear the players out.

Anyway, I'm pretty confident now that the coaches are doing pretty good with a team that don't have any stars, have had injuries to key players and are pretty poorly resourced. We weren't far off 5 wins but we are working very hard for our competitiveness.
 

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gringo2011 said:
Yeah it's more their line coach IMO. The senior coach shouldn't have to be all over the goal kicking practice, they can design drills to account for fatigue but they would all do that now. Sometimes it can just be some kind of mental thing and goes through the team. This year we seem to be a lot more mobile which must wear the players out.

Anyway, I'm pretty confident now that the coaches are doing pretty good with a team that don't have any stars, have had injuries to key players and are pretty poorly resourced. We weren't far off 5 wins but we are working very hard for our competitiveness.
Click to expand...
I can't remember, but have I ever told you I think you should use a picture of one of the Three Amigos - I'm thinking Chevy Chase, maybe - as an avatar. They're red-white-and-black, and they are gringos. I also think their sardonic wit is very representative of your posting style.
 
Wasn't sure where to post this but there is some interesting stats on our year so far on AFL.com....under the heading "On Trend...stats that show how your team is playing"
 
Wasn't sure where else to put this, so I thought here would be a good place with the recent debate over our gameplan and fitness.

The below is just a ladder of every team's cumulative winning (or losing) margins in 4th quarters this year. 5 games is a very small sample size so, as long as I don't get bored, I'll try and update it every round. In brackets is also the total no. of 4th quarters won for each team, except the Bulldogs, simply because I greatly dislike them and their marginal wins are highly irritating.

I'm sure there's a better resource out there but I wanted some collated data myself, and so I thought I'd share at least the base table here, unwanted or not :p

Cats (4) +151
Giants (4) +101
Tigers (5) +82
Crows (5) +79
Eagles (3) +24
Dockers (3) +14
Druggos (4) +10
Bulldogs (3) +2
Port Power (3) -3
Pies (2) -10
Suns (2) -21
Dreamons (2) -24
Swans (1) -27
Carlton (1) -37
St Kilda (2) -49
Hawks (1) -88
Kangaroos (0) -93
Lions (0) -111

Some interesting points:
1) The total of adding all the margins somehow add up to 0. It'll be interesting see if this continues for all rounds or if it's just a funny coincidence.

2) 4 big outliers on the top and three outliers in the bottom. Everyone else is fairly closely distributed for now.

3)The two teams that have won all their last quarters aren't actually first and second on the ladder. Not a big surprise but nice little anomaly.

I'll wait for a greater sample size - perhaps another 10 matches - before I want to compare these margins with the teams' average ages, median ages, median experience, average experience and also as a comparison to actual ladder position. The graphs will be very pretty then, so that's something to look forward to.



1) I know why this adds up to zero. I want to see if someone still tries to point it out to me, that way I'll catch out the skim readers haha
 
It was interesting listening to Fev on the radio this morning speak about goal kicking and how he would have 100+ shots at goal every day because goal kicking is his job, it's what he's paid for, it's his bread and butter, and that if you kick straight you win matches. He mentioned that since the introduction of sports science into the game in the mid 2000's, substantial goal kicking practice is pretty much discouraged. Fev would be 10 shots into his 150 a day, and the sports science guys would come up to him and tell him he can't have any more shots on goal as he's overloaded on his legs this week and escort him off the ground. So Fev would just have goal kicking practice at a local footy oval after training in secret.

It may not be an accurate reflection of what's going on with us, but an interesting insight nonetheless.

Supposedly Jack Riewoldt mentioned that he had 500 shots at goal last week, and credited his Anzac Eve haul to the extra practice.
 
CHBench said:
It was interesting listening to Fev on the radio this morning speak about goal kicking and how he would have 100+ shots at goal every day because goal kicking is his job, it's what he's paid for, it's his bread and butter, and that if you kick straight you win matches. He mentioned that since the introduction of sports science into the game in the mid 2000's, substantial goal kicking practice is pretty much discouraged. Fev would be 10 shots into his 150 a day, and the sports science guys would come up to him and tell him he can't have any more shots on goal as he's overloaded on his legs this week and escort him off the ground. So Fev would just have goal kicking practice at a local footy oval after training in secret.

It may not be an accurate reflection of what's going on with us, but an interesting insight nonetheless.

Supposedly Jack Riewoldt mentioned that he had 500 shots at goal last week, and credited his Anzac Eve haul to the extra practice.
Click to expand...

"Practise makes perfect" my mother always told me.
And if you don't believe her, South African golfing great Gary Player said, " The more I practise the luckier I get!"
 
Last edited:
Lets just say we finish this season between 10 - 14, do we hire additional coaching staff like a midfield coach (to replace an existing one if any) and maybe a new forward coach? Just to bring in new ideas and new perspective?
 
Ok I have had a go at our coaching after a loss , this week we won and congratulations to the coaching for the moves they made at the selection table. Was glad they didn't rush Paddy back in just because he kicked a couple of goals . Make him have to work for his chance like today he kicked 7 that's what he has to do more often . Glad they Finally gave Sinclair a chance and he took it . Didn't have 30 disposals but watch how many times he pops up in the games highlight package.


Sent via HAL
 

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Hamil brought in the pressure game up forward for us. A positive but I think he forgot to teach us how to kick for goals. We need to hire a former gun player to teach us how to kick straight. We seem to nail those shots from 50, but not a set shot. Even Rooey sometimes snaps across his body when he can do a drop punt.

Bruce cops a fair bit in my opinion, the bloke gets the best defender each week. I think we had overall better goal kicking against the hawks, so we hope we only become more accurate as the season rolls on.

On HTC 2PS5200 using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
A big win against the rabble of Hawthorn is good. Probably the Geelong loss made Richo think a bit harder on not just systems, but motivation of his team and individual players- a huge part of coaching any kind of team. Apart form that, we do need to get more goals out of the key forwards in Bruce and Membrey from this point- it's one thing taking the oppositions best defender, but as forward, you need to kick goals too, not just push and shove.
 
Masquerade said:
Wasn't sure where else to put this, so I thought here would be a good place with the recent debate over our gameplan and fitness.

The below is just a ladder of every team's cumulative winning (or losing) margins in 4th quarters this year. 5 games is a very small sample size so, as long as I don't get bored, I'll try and update it every round. In brackets is also the total no. of 4th quarters won for each team, except the Bulldogs, simply because I greatly dislike them and their marginal wins are highly irritating.

I'm sure there's a better resource out there but I wanted some collated data myself, and so I thought I'd share at least the base table here, unwanted or not :p

Cats (4) +151
Giants (4) +101
Tigers (5) +82
Crows (5) +79
Eagles (3) +24
Dockers (3) +14
Druggos (4) +10
Bulldogs (3) +2
Port Power (3) -3
Pies (2) -10
Suns (2) -21
Dreamons (2) -24
Swans (1) -27
Carlton (1) -37
St Kilda (2) -49
Hawks (1) -88
Kangaroos (0) -93
Lions (0) -111

Some interesting points:
1) The total of adding all the margins somehow add up to 0. It'll be interesting see if this continues for all rounds or if it's just a funny coincidence.

2) 4 big outliers on the top and three outliers in the bottom. Everyone else is fairly closely distributed for now.

3)The two teams that have won all their last quarters aren't actually first and second on the ladder. Not a big surprise but nice little anomaly.

I'll wait for a greater sample size - perhaps another 10 matches - before I want to compare these margins with the teams' average ages, median ages, median experience, average experience and also as a comparison to actual ladder position. The graphs will be very pretty then, so that's something to look forward to.



1) I know why this adds up to zero. I want to see if someone still tries to point it out to me, that way I'll catch out the skim readers haha
Click to expand...
Great read mate. Assuming as teams play each other the margin will always be 0. Eg St.Kilda def Hawthorn by 75 points, We move to +75 and Hawthorn to -75. Etc etc.

We really need a new section for stats. I love looking at numbers and seeing trends in the way we play and think it could be really interesting. Sir Skid thoughts?
 
George said:
Great read mate. Assuming as teams play each other the margin will always be 0. Eg St.Kilda def Hawthorn by 75 points, We move to +75 and Hawthorn to -75. Etc etc.

We really need a new section for stats. I love looking at numbers and seeing trends in the way we play and think it could be really interesting. Sir Skid thoughts?
Click to expand...
Kildonan Armitage2Riewoldt
Thoughts? Do we have a thread for stats?
 
George said:
I was thinking a sub forum like the players board and animal enclosure.
Click to expand...
I don't mind the idea tbh but will get K and A2R's input.
Could be a good way to split up heat maps and the many forms of stats.

Good stats input there Masquerade :thumbsu:
Shows up our last quarter fadeouts
 
nitewalker13 said:
Lets just say we finish this season between 10 - 14, do we hire additional coaching staff like a midfield coach (to replace an existing one if any) and maybe a new forward coach? Just to bring in new ideas and new perspective?
Click to expand...

We should be doing that regardless of where we finish.
 
Sab22 said:
Hamil brought in the pressure game up forward for us. A positive but I think he forgot to teach us how to kick for goals. We need to hire a former gun player to teach us how to kick straight. We seem to nail those shots from 50, but not a set shot. Even Rooey sometimes snaps across his body when he can do a drop punt.

Bruce cops a fair bit in my opinion, the bloke gets the best defender each week. I think we had overall better goal kicking against the hawks, so we hope we only become more accurate as the season rolls on.

On HTC 2PS5200 using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...

Not sure about this. Surely it is each player's individual responsibility to work on goal kicking. It is something that can be done on their own, without much facilitation. Don't think they need their forward coach to hold their hand.

On the other hand, I definitely think that our forward structures need improvement. The fact that in the space of 6 weeks we have gone into games with 3, possibly 4, different forward set ups suggests that the coaches are taking a very ad hoc approach to it.

They are:

Paddy, Membrey, Bruce fwd/ruck, Roo wing/fwd
Membrey, Bruce fwd/ruck, Roo wing/fwd
Membrey, Bruce fwd/ruck, Roo
Membrey, Bruce, Roo
 
George said:
I was thinking a sub forum like the players board and animal enclosure.
Click to expand...
The admin seem reluctant to have too many sub forums (fora?), but I love stats too (some say too much) maybe we can apply for a new sub board or two (one for the SBFFL)

Sir Skid Armitage2Riewoldt
 
FQFjt said:
Not sure about this. Surely it is each player's individual responsibility to work on goal kicking. It is something that can be done on their own, without much facilitation. Don't think they need their forward coach to hold their hand.

On the other hand, I definitely think that our forward structures need improvement. The fact that in the space of 6 weeks we have gone into games with 3, possibly 4, different forward set ups suggests that the coaches are taking a very ad hoc approach to it.

They are:

Paddy, Membrey, Bruce fwd/ruck, Roo wing/fwd
Membrey, Bruce fwd/ruck, Roo wing/fwd
Membrey, Bruce fwd/ruck, Roo
Membrey, Bruce, Roo
Click to expand...

I very much doubt it is "ad hoc" as you say.

It could be that they are still trying to work out the best system, and this is the year to do it.
It could be that they like using different structures to make it difficult for the opposition to plan/ coach against us.

We are in the fortunate position of having a number of players in our forward line who we can move around, so why not exploit it?
 
Diehard Saint said:
I very much doubt it is "ad hoc" as you say.

It could be that they are still trying to work out the best system, and this is the year to do it.
It could be that they like using different structures to make it difficult for the opposition to plan/ coach against us.

We are in the fortunate position of having a number of players in our forward line who we can move around, so why not exploit it?
Click to expand...

I suppose that is the optimistic spin, whereas mine is the pessimistic spin. Hope you're right.
 
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