F-35 Joint Strike Fighter - Abbott agrees to buy more, more, more.

[Power Raid]

You think im going to do your work for you?

I've pulled you multiple times for lying/making s**t up.

The Navy doesnt just leave a bosun to tend lines on an FFG or an ANZAC or even the old DE's.

Rubbish

So you think there is some action station or level of preparation or even awareness of a potential threat.

Rubbish, they are only looking at line, flags, food, Tele, sleep, machinery (if running) and rounds.

Please detail the security

 

[Elroo]

Rubbish

So you think there is some action station or level of preparation or even awareness of a potential threat.

Rubbish, they are only looking at line, flags, food, Tele, sleep, machinery (if running) and rounds.

Please detail the security

So theres not zero onboard then?

You think they dont have any MT's onboard doing maintenance work when alongside?

 

[Power Raid]

So theres not zero onboard then?

You think they dont have any MT's onboard doing maintenance work when alongside?

I can confirm in the late 90s there were ships with no one on board on certain ships. I think this was called "dead watch" where the rounds were being completed from the island rather than ships company.

If you go back you will note we are talking about security, so even when a full duty watch remains on board, very few are doing watches at anyone time. Further, none are armed, so there is zero ability to deal with an issue if it were to arise other than a bare knuckle fight.

 

[Malifice]

I can confirm in the late 90s there were ships with no one on board on certain ships. I think this was called "dead watch" where the rounds were being completed from the island rather than ships company.

If you go back you will note we are talking about security, so even when a full duty watch remains on board, very few are doing watches at anyone time. Further, none are armed, so there is zero ability to deal with an issue if it were to arise other than a bare knuckle fight.

I think youre thinking about 2008:

NAVY chiefs battling a staffing crisis have taken the unprecedented step of ordering a two-month shutdown over Christmas, and have told personnel with child-care problems that they can work from home.

The navy has also ordered all ships not deployed on operations home for Christmas to try to combat a 2020 shortfall in trained personnel.

In addition, the number of sailors forced to stay on board ships docked in their home port on "duty watch" as sentries will be reduced from previous levels of 15 to 20 people to a skeleton staff.

Instead sensors and alarms will be used to guard the ships, with the ultimate aim being to do away with the need for any people at all.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/aussie-navy-closes-for-christmas/2008/11/17/1226770355889.html

So in addition to base security (walls, cameras, armed SERCO guards, patrols), and live in seamen everywhere, you also have an on duty skeleton crew of 15-20 people per ship and sensors and alarms.

Seeing as the RAN's fleet are dispersed among two main naval bases, and dozens of smaller ones, with at least 1/3 of the fleet on operations or exercise at any given moment, I cant envisage how you could take them out with any amount of ease considering the level of explosives to sink just the one 3500 tonne vessel, or what the advantages of doing so would be (other than trigger economic sanctions for the country responsible).

 

[Power Raid]

I think youre thinking about 2008:



http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/aussie-navy-closes-for-christmas/2008/11/17/1226770355889.html

So in addition to base security (walls, cameras, armed SERCO guards, patrols), and live in seamen everywhere, you also have an on duty skeleton crew of 15-20 people per ship and sensors and alarms.

Seeing as the RAN's fleet are dispersed among two main naval bases, and dozens of smaller ones, with at least 1/3 of the fleet on operations or exercise at any given moment, I cant envisage how you could take them out with any amount of ease considering the level of explosives to sink just the one 3500 tonne vessel, or what the advantages of doing so would be (other than trigger economic sanctions for the country responsible).

FBE security was better than FBW when I was in. There is definitely a lot of cameras these days but F all back in the 90s.

Even then, no one is armed and most blokes wouldn't know where the armory was on a base and even if the did, they wouldn't have access.

I'm sure a clearance diver could provide better details on what is required to sink or disable a ship. but even if a diver couldn't carry it, a small boat could and even a simple drive through the gates and straight up to a ship "would" have been possible (I think that has been addressed now).

 

[little graham]

http://www.rt.com/usa/312446-f-35-inferior-foreign/

The F-35 will find itself outmaneuvered, outgunned, out of range, and visible to enemy sensors,” NSN’s policy analyst Bill French said. “Going forward, full investment in the F-35 would be to place a bad trillion-dollar bet on the future of airpower based on flawed assumptions and an underperforming aircraft.“To avoid such a catastrophic outcome, Congress and DOD should begin the process of considering alternatives to a large-scale commitment to the F-35. Staying the present course may needlessly gamble away a sizable margin of American airpower at great expense and unnecessary risk to American lives,” he added.

Its official, its a white elephant.

 

[Power Raid]

http://www.rt.com/usa/312446-f-35-inferior-foreign/



Its official, its a white elephant.

official because an un-official organisation said so?

Its probably an elephant but not because NSN said so

 

[little graham]

official because an un-official organisation said so?

Its probably an elephant but not because NSN said so

If we buy that piece of junk, the Indonesians will have better fighters...

 

[RUNVS]

If we buy that piece of junk, the Indonesians will have better fighters...

The Indonesians will have Russian fighters so that is probably quite true.

The problem is that the Americans have sunk so much money into the F-35 that they simply don't want to admit that they would be much better off starting from scratch and designing specific fighter jets for specific roles rather than an all in one air frame.

 

[Juddism]

Canada's new PM has advised that he will axe the purchase of JSF.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-...fighter-purchase-unaffected-by-canada/6874660

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Can only hope the Australian electorate will realise how bad our conservative government is as the Canadians have done.

 

[madmug]

Can only hope the Australian electorate will realise how bad our conservative government is as the Canadians have done.

When it comes to foreign policy & defense issues, both parties practice sycophancy of the highest order.

The public vote will have SFA to do with it. They will waste $billions just to look like a good & faithful puppy to the USA.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

When it comes to foreign policy & defense issues, both parties practice sycophancy of the highest order.

The public vote will have SFA to do with it. They will waste $billions just to look like a good & faithful puppy to the USA.

Yeah, was more just a general comment

 

[madmug]

Yeah, was more just a general comment

Understood.

Will the F35 follow in the footsteps of the F104, the F111 & F4. All had dubious records of safety & performance & cost.?

 

[Dagger5]

There is absolutely 0% chance the government or any alternate government will make the right decision and cancel the contract. What we should of done was upgrade our current F-18 fleet to operate until 2030 and then start buying 6th gen fighters from the US or Japan which at this stage look like they will be nothing like the F-35 nightmare.

 

[RUNVS]

There is absolutely 0% chance the government or any alternate government will make the right decision and cancel the contract. What we should of done was upgrade our current F-18 fleet to operate until 2030 and then start buying 6th gen fighters from the US or Japan which at this stage look like they will be nothing like the F-35 nightmare.

From what I know the FA-18 Super Hornet is actually a very good fighter jet. We really should have just stuck with that.

 

[Dagger5]

From what I know the FA-18 Super Hornet is actually a very good fighter jet. We really should have just stuck with that.

The Super Hornets are up to standard but our vanilla F/A-18's from the 80's though will need upgrades if they are to serve us longer. Seeing all the delays with the F-35 however might mean they would need to upgraded after all but I haven't seen any contingency plans for this eventuality.

 

[RUNVS]

The Super Hornets are up to standard but our vanilla F/A-18's from the 80's though will need upgrades if they are to serve us longer. Seeing all the delays with the F-35 however might mean they would need to upgraded after all but I haven't seen any contingency plans for this eventuality.

Despite the FA-18 Super Hornet sounding like it is just an upgrade on the old FA-18 Hornet I was under the impression it is actually an entirely new plane. I think the Super Hornet really should be the backbone of the RAAF for the next decade at least. It is certainly capable of the role.

 

[Dagger5]

Despite the FA-18 Super Hornet sounding like it is just an upgrade on the old FA-18 Hornet I was under the impression it is actually an entirely new plane. I think the Super Hornet really should be the backbone of the RAAF for the next decade at least. It is certainly capable of the role.

Yeah it actually is an entirely new plane with a larger airframe that is designed to be more stealthy too. The Super Hornets are pretty decent but they are not as good as current offerings around the world like the Eurofighter or Rafale but they are more than adequate for our region for the next 20 years. I just think we are better off with them and our current vanilla Hornets for 20 years instead of putting an anchor on the RAAF for the next 50 years with the F-35.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Wonder what the Canadians will buy instead?

I think the program will survive Canada pulling out, but maybe if another 2 or 3 cournties drop out it will be in serious trouble.

 

[RUNVS]

Wonder what the Canadians will buy instead?

I think the program will survive Canada pulling out, but maybe if another 2 or 3 cournties drop out it will be in serious trouble.

In reality the Canadians don't need to buy anything. If they had no military what so ever can anyone honestly say they would be at risk of being invaded?

 

[Admiral Byng]

In reality the Canadians don't need to buy anything. If they had no military what so ever can anyone honestly say they would be at risk of being invaded?

It was announced that Canada will open a new tender process to buy another new fighter instead, so they'll still end up getting something. I'm going on what the Canadians have said themselves, not getting into the argument from a philosophical point of view. I'm very interested in what they'll they'll buy instead.

 

[little graham]

They won't get Russian planes, not for sale to like of the Canadians and us.

 

[RUNVS]

They won't get Russian planes, not for sale to like of the Canadians and us.

They will probably end up getting a Eurofighter or Super Hornet.

 

[madmug]

In reality the Canadians don't need to buy anything. If they had no military what so ever can anyone honestly say they would be at risk of being invaded?

Well that applies to us as well. What countries have the logistics or the desire to invade a wide brown land like ours? The USA, umm, err. Well thats about it as far as the capacity to do so sits.

I've said B4, we need a good submarine force. Thats about it when it comes to real defense. Other than that a country of our size & wealth needs a good coast guard & good humanitarian support systems & equipment. That includes small & efficient navy surface assets like the AWDs & helicopter carriers. Also small & efficient Army & Airforce units to protect the other units mentioned. Forget the Abrams & such heavy equipment.

Really, whats more important, the new technology & 'versatility' of the F35 aircraft, or the weapons the other planes carry. I dont see why we need to spend so much on a new set of wings. Do we need 'that' plane?. Or something much cheaper thats 'nearly' as good & carries good avionics & weapons?

It wont be long B4 we're using unmanned aircraft anyway.