F1 2022

Remove this Banner Ad

DamoESP

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 2, 2008
8,749
6,739
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
San Antonio Spurs, Dallas Stars
So has it been established wtf went on with Yuki? Certainly smelt funny at the time. Max was always going to win anyway though imo.
Yep, he thought it was a loose wheel at first and stopped, unfastened his seatbelt (not all the way), came back into the pits, they redid tyres and refastened seatbelt, he went back out, problem still existed as it was the diff.

Stewards gave him a reprimand for the seatbelt.

 
Last edited:

Jatz

.
Sep 7, 2008
48,331
31,431
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Philadelphia Eagles
Yep, he thought it was a loose wheel at first and stopped, unfastened his seatbelt (not all the way), came back into the pits, they redid tyres and refastened seatbelt, he went back out, problem still existed as it was the did.

Stewards gave him a reprimand for the seatbelt.


That doesn't explain what the issue was that caused the retirement though? They have the data to know that the wheel was on properly and didn't seem to adjust anything other than a seat belt when he came in.

The car then barely makes it out of pit lane before stopping again.
 

DamoESP

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 2, 2008
8,749
6,739
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
San Antonio Spurs, Dallas Stars
That doesn't explain what the issue was that caused the retirement though? They have the data to know that the wheel was on properly and didn't seem to adjust anything other than a seat belt when he came in.

The car then barely makes it out of pit lane before stopping again.

It explains it in the Stewards ruling that I linked, it was a diff issue that caused the retirement.

EDIT: Noticed my first post also said "did" instead of "diff".....stupid auto correct lol
 

Log in to remove this ad.

DamoESP

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 2, 2008
8,749
6,739
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
San Antonio Spurs, Dallas Stars
Unfortunately it seems a lot of fans for a particular team/driver have gone all in on this RBR/AT conspiracy theory and started directing hateful comments towards Hannah Schmitz (because there was a screen grab of her smiling on the pitwall which they say was after TSU VSC, but I believe it was actually during BOT SC...), to the point that HAM's PR team had to put out this statement asking them to stop:



An example of one of the comments about Hannah:
https://i.redd.it/1fr89j16rvl91.jpg
 

Vader

Sith Lord
Oct 14, 2005
49,977
33,435
Canberra
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood, Adelaide Crows
Hamilton was never going to win that race, and the whining sook needs to realise it.

The team had two choices with him:
  • A - They could leave him out on mediums. In this case he maintains track position as race leader, but is left running on the slower tyre compound;
  • B - They could pit him for softs. In this case he would have the same tyres as everyone else, but would have had to give up track position to Verstappen (who would be in P1 on re-start).
Neither scenario was ever going to result in Hamilton winning the race - though scenario B would have, at least, seen him finish on the podium. They opted for A.

It's worth noting that Russell was proactive in requesting that the team pit him for soft tyres. We didn't hear any such calls from Hamilton - that doesn't mean it didn't happen, but it appears unlikely. This is not the first time that Hamilton has missed pitting for new tyres when the entire rest of the field pitted (there was a race recently where he was literally the only car on the grid, starting on wets, when every other car pitted for slicks at the end of the formation lap). Hamilton needs to start taking responsibility for his own lack of communication with the team (other than the constant whining noises being emitted from his cockpit).
 

Neale4brownlow

Norm Smith Medallist
May 20, 2017
5,500
8,906
AFL Club
West Coast
Hamilton was never going to win that race, and the whining sook needs to realise it.

The team had two choices with him:
  • A - They could leave him out on mediums. In this case he maintains track position as race leader, but is left running on the slower tyre compound;
  • B - They could pit him for softs. In this case he would have the same tyres as everyone else, but would have had to give up track position to Verstappen (who would be in P1 on re-start).
Neither scenario was ever going to result in Hamilton winning the race - though scenario B would have, at least, seen him finish on the podium. They opted for A.

It's worth noting that Russell was proactive in requesting that the team pit him for soft tyres. We didn't hear any such calls from Hamilton - that doesn't mean it didn't happen, but it appears unlikely. This is not the first time that Hamilton has missed pitting for new tyres when the entire rest of the field pitted (there was a race recently where he was literally the only car on the grid, starting on wets, when every other car pitted for slicks at the end of the formation lap). Hamilton needs to start taking responsibility for his own lack of communication with the team (other than the constant whining noises being emitted from his cockpit).
Depends what the ultimate goal is for Merc this year.

If they wanted to squeeze a win that may be the only chance they get. And if that's the case its a big stuff up to let Russell make an individual call override the teams goal.

To that extent I agree with Ham to be furious. He was first past the pit lane and he doesnt get the luxury of seeing what anyone behind him is doing, but he SHOULD have been confidence that his team are at least working together and Russell would be following him. In the end he got hung out to dry. If that was the plan he'd have pitted no doubt.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing, and I doubt they would've won regardless. But I doubt Merc overly care for coming 2nd and 3rd when 1st and ~4th may have been on the cards?
 

Jatz

.
Sep 7, 2008
48,331
31,431
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Philadelphia Eagles
Hamilton was never going to win that race, and the whining sook needs to realise it.

The team had two choices with him:
  • A - They could leave him out on mediums. In this case he maintains track position as race leader, but is left running on the slower tyre compound;
  • B - They could pit him for softs. In this case he would have the same tyres as everyone else, but would have had to give up track position to Verstappen (who would be in P1 on re-start).
Neither scenario was ever going to result in Hamilton winning the race - though scenario B would have, at least, seen him finish on the podium. They opted for A.

It's worth noting that Russell was proactive in requesting that the team pit him for soft tyres. We didn't hear any such calls from Hamilton - that doesn't mean it didn't happen, but it appears unlikely. This is not the first time that Hamilton has missed pitting for new tyres when the entire rest of the field pitted (there was a race recently where he was literally the only car on the grid, starting on wets, when every other car pitted for slicks at the end of the formation lap). Hamilton needs to start taking responsibility for his own lack of communication with the team (other than the constant whining noises being emitted from his cockpit).
Absolutely disagree.

That's what these teams have strategists for. If you just want the drivers to make the call, strategists are no longer required. These drivers have plenty of other things to focus on rather than planning and knowing what those around them are doing.
 

Vader

Sith Lord
Oct 14, 2005
49,977
33,435
Canberra
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood, Adelaide Crows
Depends what the ultimate goal is for Merc this year.

If they wanted to squeeze a win that may be the only chance they get. And if that's the case its a big stuff up to let Russell make an individual call override the teams goal.

To that extent I agree with Ham to be furious. He was first past the pit lane and he doesnt get the luxury of seeing what anyone behind him is doing, but he SHOULD have been confidence that his team are at least working together and Russell would be following him. In the end he got hung out to dry. If that was the plan he'd have pitted no doubt.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing, and I doubt they would've won regardless. But I doubt Merc overly care for coming 2nd and 3rd when 1st and ~4th may have been on the cards?
Nothing they could have done would have prevented Verstappen from winning, once the VSC occurred - let alone the final SC laps.

Their options were pit Hamilton, and probably get 2nd - or leave him out, and hope that he doesn't fall off the podium completely (which he did). Winning was not an option open to them, and that was clear without any need for hindsight.

How did Russell's individual call override the team's goal? Russell made a good call, which saved their race. Had he not made that call, they may not have ended up with either car on the podium.
 

Vader

Sith Lord
Oct 14, 2005
49,977
33,435
Canberra
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood, Adelaide Crows
Absolutely disagree.

That's what these teams have strategists for. If you just want the drivers to make the call, strategists are no longer required. These drivers have plenty of other things to focus on rather than planning and knowing what those around them are doing.
Well... you have to wonder about the competence of the Mercedes strategists, because they got it horribly wrong after the VSC & SC interventions. Every other team was able to adapt, except Mercedes.

Credit to Mercedes - their initial strategy was good, and without the VSC/SC they would have forced Verstappen to overtake Hamilton on track. I have no doubt at all that Verstappen would have done so with ease, but in motor racing nothing is a 100% certainty. Their initial strategy was good - their inability to adapt on the fly was verging on Ferrari level incompetence.
 

Neale4brownlow

Norm Smith Medallist
May 20, 2017
5,500
8,906
AFL Club
West Coast
Nothing they could have done would have prevented Verstappen from winning, once the VSC occurred - let alone the final SC laps.

Their options were pit Hamilton, and probably get 2nd - or leave him out, and hope that he doesn't fall off the podium completely (which he did). Winning was not an option open to them, and that was clear without any need for hindsight.

How did Russell's individual call override the team's goal? Russell made a good call, which saved their race. Had he not made that call, they may not have ended up with either car on the podium.
I agree it likely wouldn't have many any difference whatsoever.

But there was only ~10 or so laps left at that point.

If Ham/Russell both went on then Max isn't first into turn 1. The onus is on Max to make 2 overtakes instead of 1.

It almost certainly didn't make a difference to the result but IF they wanted to win that was the call they had to make (don't pit).

The options should have been:
1) Both don't pit and go for the wind. Russell defends from max and maybe Lewis builds a big enough gap to win? Unlikely but it's the only shot at a win they had in that moment.
2) Both pit and take 2nd/3rd. If they're aiming for 2nd in constructors this was the call that needed to be make.

Instead they got the wet fish approach of doing nothing until a driver desperately calls for it last minute.
 

Jatz

.
Sep 7, 2008
48,331
31,431
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Philadelphia Eagles
Well... you have to wonder about the competence of the Mercedes strategists, because they got it horribly wrong after the VSC & SC interventions. Every other team was able to adapt, except Mercedes.

Credit to Mercedes - their initial strategy was good, and without the VSC/SC they would have forced Verstappen to overtake Hamilton on track. I have no doubt at all that Verstappen would have done so with ease, but in motor racing nothing is a 100% certainty. Their initial strategy was good - their inability to adapt on the fly was verging on Ferrari level incompetence.
100% this. They did a Ferrari (as you said at the end of your post). Absolutely no doubting it was the team that screwed him this time.

Ultimately Max was always going to be too fast. Sucks we never got to see the race it could've been.
 

Vader

Sith Lord
Oct 14, 2005
49,977
33,435
Canberra
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood, Adelaide Crows
As I see it, there were three possible outcomes:
  • Pit Russell only (i.e. reality) - Hamilton a sitting duck, overtaken by 3x drivers on fresh softs. Mercedes finish 2-4.
  • Pit Hamilton only - Verstappen gains track position at the restart and is never headed, Hamilton holds on for P2, Russell is a sitting duck for Leclerc and finishes P4. Mercedes finish 2-4.
  • Pit neither driver - Hamilton has a "rear gunner", but both cars are lame ducks, on old mediums. Verstappen & Leclerc overtake both of them easily, resulting in a Mercedes 3-4.
Anyone who thinks that the Mercs could have held off either Verstappen or Leclerc, with both Mercs on aging mediums and Ver/Lec on fresh softs, is delusional to the point of requiring medical assistance for their mental health problems.

There is/was no scenario where Mercedes win, once the VSC/SC interventions occur, and it was highly unlikely even without those interventions.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Jatz

.
Sep 7, 2008
48,331
31,431
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Philadelphia Eagles
As I see it, there were three possible outcomes:
  • Pit Russell only (i.e. reality) - Hamilton a sitting duck, overtaken by 3x drivers on fresh softs. Mercedes finish 2-4.
  • Pit Hamilton only - Verstappen gains track position at the restart and is never headed, Hamilton holds on for P2, Russell is a sitting duck for Leclerc and finishes P4. Mercedes finish 2-4.
  • Pit neither driver - Hamilton has a "rear gunner", but both cars are lame ducks, on old mediums. Verstappen & Leclerc overtake both of them easily, resulting in a Mercedes 3-4.
Anyone who thinks that the Mercs could have held off either Verstappen or Leclerc, with both Mercs on aging mediums and Ver/Lec on fresh softs, is delusional to the point of requiring medical assistance for their mental health problems.

There is/was no scenario where Mercedes win, once the VSC/SC interventions occur, and it was highly unlikely even without those interventions.
The mediums the Mercs had on were only 7 laps old (including some laps under a VSC) and would only have had to go 22 laps (again some under VSC and as it turned out, more under an actual safety car) which was less than they ran the first stint on.

Slower than the softs, sure. But they didn't desperately need to pit and actually could've made it quite easily to the end of the race at a good clip. Both Mercs were quick in the first stint.
 

Simon_Nesbit

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 26, 2001
11,427
7,407
Tasmania
AFL Club
Hawthorn
As I see it, there were three possible outcomes:
  • Pit Russell only (i.e. reality) - Hamilton a sitting duck, overtaken by 3x drivers on fresh softs. Mercedes finish 2-4.
  • Pit Hamilton only - Verstappen gains track position at the restart and is never headed, Hamilton holds on for P2, Russell is a sitting duck for Leclerc and finishes P4. Mercedes finish 2-4.
  • Pit neither driver - Hamilton has a "rear gunner", but both cars are lame ducks, on old mediums. Verstappen & Leclerc overtake both of them easily, resulting in a Mercedes 3-4.
Anyone who thinks that the Mercs could have held off either Verstappen or Leclerc, with both Mercs on aging mediums and Ver/Lec on fresh softs, is delusional to the point of requiring medical assistance for their mental health problems.

There is/was no scenario where Mercedes win, once the VSC/SC interventions occur, and it was highly unlikely even without those interventions.
Pretty much this, or Pit Both = restart 2-3, Max disappears into the distance but fresh tires to fight Leclerc

GR was racing for himself - Lewis believed it was a team (behind him). For the team, it was either both stay out or both pit.

If it was Supercars, Lewis would take off early straight after the SC ended, GR would "miss" the jump, and then move slowly around the last corner, obviously losing out to Max on the pit straight before divebombing into T1, going way to deep and overshooting the corner on "cold tyres" forcing Max to take avoiding action. No harm no foul, GR still loses his spot to Max (and Leclerc, maybe others) to finish 4th, but LH is now far enough up the road to survive and get the win.

Even 1st and 6th matches 2nd and 3rd. It was a gamble worth taking.

We'd also see a Max masterclass as he smashed out times on fresh softs, low fuel charging down Lewis.
 

BIRDBRAIN

Club Legend
Aug 12, 2013
2,897
4,362
AFL Club
West Coast
The mediums the Mercs had on were only 7 laps old (including some laps under a VSC) and would only have had to go 22 laps (again some under VSC and as it turned out, more under an actual safety car) which was less than they ran the first stint on.

Slower than the softs, sure. But they didn't desperately need to pit and actually could've made it quite easily to the end of the race at a good clip. Both Mercs were quick in the first stint.

The reason RUS asked to pit was because he lost tyre temp behind the SC and it made sense to just put the softs on fresh out of the tyre blankets. So while the mediums weren't that old they were going to take a long time to fire back up on the restart, which we saw with Lewis.
 

Vader

Sith Lord
Oct 14, 2005
49,977
33,435
Canberra
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood, Adelaide Crows
Pretty much this, or Pit Both = restart 2-3, Max disappears into the distance but fresh tires to fight Leclerc

GR was racing for himself - Lewis believed it was a team (behind him). For the team, it was either both stay out or both pit.

If it was Supercars, Lewis would take off early straight after the SC ended, GR would "miss" the jump, and then move slowly around the last corner, obviously losing out to Max on the pit straight before divebombing into T1, going way to deep and overshooting the corner on "cold tyres" forcing Max to take avoiding action. No harm no foul, GR still loses his spot to Max (and Leclerc, maybe others) to finish 4th, but LH is now far enough up the road to survive and get the win.

Even 1st and 6th matches 2nd and 3rd. It was a gamble worth taking.

We'd also see a Max masterclass as he smashed out times on fresh softs, low fuel charging down Lewis.
How did I forget option 4 - pit both? As you say, it would have resulted in a Mercedes 2-3.

Basically, there was no scenario where they won. The question was whether or not they wanted 2-3 or 2-4.
 

drd23

Hall of Famer
Feb 28, 2009
35,007
31,645
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Baltimore Ravens, Atletico
Unfortunately it seems a lot of fans for a particular team/driver have gone all in on this RBR/AT conspiracy theory and started directing hateful comments towards Hannah Schmitz (because there was a screen grab of her smiling on the pitwall which they say was after TSU VSC, but I believe it was actually during BOT SC...), to the point that HAM's PR team had to put out this statement asking them to stop:



An example of one of the comments about Hannah:
https://i.redd.it/1fr89j16rvl91.jpg

That tweet in the image is deplorable. Good on Lewis’s team for putting out that message, especially after the recent FIA campaign to stop abuse of people in the sport or attending a race
 

Black_White

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 7, 2001
19,933
15,786
In the Pocket Rocket, lights ablaze!
AFL Club
Collingwood
Haven’t watched the race. But the Russell thing makes me curious.
Did he insist on pitting? Did the team call him to pit?
Did he insist on softs? Did the team tell him he was getting mediums?
Because in my mind, if the team didn’t ask him to pit or offered mediums, then he has done something most of Hamilton’s previous partners never did. That is stand up to the team and demand to race unimpeded.
I hope that’s what happened.
 

drd23

Hall of Famer
Feb 28, 2009
35,007
31,645
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Baltimore Ravens, Atletico
Haven’t watched the race. But the Russell thing makes me curious.
Did he insist on pitting? Did the team call him to pit?
Did he insist on softs? Did the team tell him he was getting mediums?
Because in my mind, if the team didn’t ask him to pit or offered mediums, then he has done something most of Hamilton’s previous partners never did. That is stand up to the team and demand to race unimpeded.
I hope that’s what happened.
From what was broadcast it appears that he asked to pit for softs (they were going through pit lane anyway under safety car as the stopped car was on the start/finish straight) because he said he was losing too much temperature in his mediums

I don’t remember hearing him being offered any sort of stop from the team
 

my name was taken

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 8, 2008
5,048
6,891
AFL Club
St Kilda
Haven’t watched the race. But the Russell thing makes me curious.
Did he insist on pitting? Did the team call him to pit?
Did he insist on softs? Did the team tell him he was getting mediums?
Because in my mind, if the team didn’t ask him to pit or offered mediums, then he has done something most of Hamilton’s previous partners never did. That is stand up to the team and demand to race unimpeded.
I hope that’s what happened.
From memory it was very confusing situation and the radio messages on the telecast aren't aligned but think the message played as russell entered pitlane was Russel said " let's go softs" and the reply was something like " stop stop....box box" in a bit of a frantic tone, no idea what the stop stop meant
 

Lia

Senior List
Jan 12, 2022
240
357
AFL Club
West Coast
Unfortunately it seems a lot of fans for a particular team/driver have gone all in on this RBR/AT conspiracy theory and started directing hateful comments towards Hannah Schmitz (because there was a screen grab of her smiling on the pitwall which they say was after TSU VSC, but I believe it was actually during BOT SC...), to the point that HAM's PR team had to put out this statement asking them to stop:



An example of one of the comments about Hannah:
https://i.redd.it/1fr89j16rvl91.jpg

Not only that, Tsunoda has been copping it for his speaking patterns and "body language" during his post race interviews. Ignoring the fact that he is speaking a second language.
 

DamoESP

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 2, 2008
8,749
6,739
Perth
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
San Antonio Spurs, Dallas Stars
Not only that, Tsunoda has been copping it for his speaking patterns and "body language" during his post race interviews. Ignoring the fact that he is speaking a second language.
Yeah people were trying to analyze his post race interview, not realizing that he is like that in most English interviews...
 

Remove this Banner Ad