F1 F1 2024 thread

[gaskin]

RBR and Max don't have a leg to stand on. Both were slam dunk penalties and especially the one where Max deliberately pushed Lando off. It was just dumb driving from Max.

 

[Bradesmaen]

RBR and Max don't have a leg to stand on. Both were slam dunk penalties and especially the one where Max deliberately pushed Lando off. It was just dumb driving from Max.

Second yes, first no.

 

[jabba5114]

Second yes, first no.

Second deserved at least a 20 sec penalty anyway

Sent from my SM-A556E using Tapatalk

 

[Cromulant]

Second deserved at least a 20 sec penalty anyway

Sent from my SM-A556E using Tapatalk

It didn't.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Second deserved at least a 20 sec penalty anyway

Sent from my SM-A556E using Tapatalk

no.

 

[Black_White]

According to RBR they had data that showed Lando deliberately braked later and hung it around the outside and was never going to make the corner. I still feel like if you're the car on the outside unless you're over half a cars length in front, you're not entitled to the position. Do the switch back and get better drive off the corner, that's how it used to be done, none of this hang it around and plead to someone to give you space.

Wasn’t this my point at the time?
Lando was not in any position to overtake on the outside.
Had he not braked late then he would have had a wonderful opportunity to get him on the inside when he went off course.
Not really a thinking man is our Brit.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

Despite peoples opinion the T4 incident, based on the rules as they stand (where only the apex matters), lando had the right for room.

As the car on the outside, he was ahead / level with Max....which is what the rules say he has to be.
Whether you agree with the ruleset or not (i don't FWIW), at least they were consistent in their application of them for both weeks.

Max tried the same trick as last week. Dived for the apex (because that's all that matters when defending).
But this time he didn't get there.
As soon as he didn't get there, it's on him to give room. He didn't.
It was actually an easy call.

I'm all on Ferrari for the constructors.
At least its gong to be an exciting end to the year.

 

[happy_eagle]

Turn 4 incident should have been 5 seconds.
The latter incident was probably right in being 10.

 

[Barrybran]

Turn 4 incident should have been 5 seconds.
The latter incident was probably right in being 10.

The turn 4 incident shouldn't have been a penalty at all. Lando was never getting around Max there and shouldn't have attempted it. The second incident was certainly dangerous and warranted a penalty.

 

[happy_eagle]

The turn 4 incident shouldn't have been a penalty at all. Lando was never getting around Max there and shouldn't have attempted it. The second incident was certainly dangerous and warranted a penalty.

Ideally Turn 4 should have been one of those ones where Lando gives the position back and no penalty is required. But obviously was a bit hard to sort that out with what happened a few corners later.

 

[Barrybran]

Ideally Turn 4 should have been one of those ones where Lando gives the position back and no penalty is required. But obviously was a bit hard to sort that out with what happened a few corners later.

To be fair to Max, Lando wasn't exactly slowing down. Even when he did give up the position, he kept his pace up. Max's actions were a warning shot. A reckless one and deserving of a penalty but Lando played a role in both penalties.

 

[FR0GGY]

 

[FR0GGY]

From my observations, Hamilton grows a horn when he's in the best car.

So does sky commentary.

 

[Skull Face]

Despite peoples opinion the T4 incident, based on the rules as they stand (where only the apex matters), lando had the right for room.

As the car on the outside, he was ahead / level with Max....which is what the rules say he has to be.
Whether you agree with the ruleset or not (i don't FWIW), at least they were consistent in their application of them for both weeks.

Max tried the same trick as last week. Dived for the apex (because that's all that matters when defending).
But this time he didn't get there.
As soon as he didn't get there, it's on him to give room. He didn't.
It was actually an easy call.

I'm all on Ferrari for the constructors.
At least its gong to be an exciting end to the year.

People who don't think the 1st incident was a penalty for max may as well come out and say they want to ban all overtaking.

If you can run someone off the road because you have the inside line defending even when you are behind then no overtake will ever happen again because you can just defend inside go deep and block the exit so its drs clean or overtake in pits no wheel to wheel racing ever.

 

[Barrybran]

People who don't think the 1st incident was a penalty for max may as well come out and say they want to ban all overtaking.

If you can run someone off the road because you have the inside line defending even when you are behind then no overtake will ever happen again because you can just defend inside go deep and block the exit so its drs clean or overtake in pits no wheel to wheel racing ever.

When you're turning left, you're looking left. If someone tries to come around you on the right, you're not seeing where they are.

No doubt Max knows he's there but it is not unreasonable to defend a space while you're looking in the opposite direction. There are other places and ways overtakes can be done but the onus is on the car with the greater visibility to do so safely.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

People who don't think the 1st incident was a penalty for max may as well come out and say they want to ban all overtaking.

If you can run someone off the road because you have the inside line defending even when you are behind then no overtake will ever happen again because you can just defend inside go deep and block the exit so its drs clean or overtake in pits no wheel to wheel racing ever.

Agree.
I want cars overtaking. inside and outside.

Its the guidelines that are a problem.
but now that they are published, its clear they are wrong and they will be changed ASAP.

To have a ruleset that doesn't take into account the defending car staying on the track is just insane!
To only have the apex as the deciding factor on how the defending car behaves is mind boggling.

Also the notion of "defending" car needs re-thinking because there needs to be clear understanding of when an overtake is "done".

It explains why Max is at the centre of controversy year after year.
He is driving to the guidelines....he's just the only one to apply them verbatim.
Everyone else will give room on exit (look at Saintz on Max in T1).
Max just runs the car to the rules.....and the rules say he doesn't have to stay on track if he is defending and first to the apex.

 

[Skull Face]

When you're turning left, you're looking left. If someone tries to come around you on the right, you're not seeing where they are.

No doubt Max knows he's there but it is not unreasonable to defend a space while you're looking in the opposite direction. There are other places and ways overtakes can be done but the onus is on the car with the greater visibility to do so safely.

When you are battling a car you are checking in your mirrors down the straight to see if the car behind is close enough to go for a move, you realise this you defend to the inside.

Trying to pretend he couldn't see him is perhaps the most delusional take ive seen on here



May as well say he cant see carlos sainz either, he knows he is there which is why he defends inside then squeezes norris to the edge of the track and if you bother to watch the onboard footage he doesnt run him off until halfway to turn 5 when he opens the steering up to run norris off the road

 

[Barrybran]

When you are battling a car you are checking in your mirrors down the straight to see if the car behind is close enough to go for a move, you realise this you defend to the inside.

Trying to pretend he couldn't see him is perhaps the most delusional take ive seen on here

View attachment 2154246

May as well say he cant see carlos sainz either, he knows he is there which is why he defends inside the squeezes norris to the edge of the track and if you bother to watch the onboard footage he doesnt run him off until halfway to turn 5 when he opens the steering up to run norris off the road

How is it delusional? Drivers can see where opponents line up but once they're in the corner they're looking in, not out. The driver on the inside is entitled to drive in the racing line. The onus is on the driver on the outside to make the overtake safely.

 

[Skull Face]

How is it delusional? Drivers can see where opponents line up but once they're in the corner they're looking in, not out. The driver on the inside is entitled to drive in the racing line. The onus is on the driver on the outside to make the overtake safely.

It is delusional to pretend he couldnt see him for 2 reason.

#1 norris gets ahead before braking making it impossible not to be able to see him
#2 If you watch the on board you can see max intentionally open the steering briefly to run himself wide to the kerb and run lando off when he normally would be starting to open up for 5.

Verstappen is not on the racing line as he chose to give it up to defend the inside line, if you want to get technical about it norris was ahead before braking so max is the one trying to overtake offline to regain the position.

It still amazes me the sim racing community can get this so much better then the fia and it's a very basic concept in that if another car has overlap on you then you must give each other space through the turn.

 

[ReidBetweenTheLines]

It will never happen, but there’s a bit of speculation about Ric after Perez’ disastrous weekend.

 

[Barrybran]

It is delusional to pretend he couldnt see him for 2 reason.

#1 norris gets ahead before braking making it impossible not to be able to see him
#2 If you watch the on board you can see max intentionally open the steering briefly to run himself wide to the kerb and run lando off when he normally would be starting to open up for 5.

Verstappen is not on the racing line as he chose to give it up to defend the inside line, if you want to get technical about it norris was ahead before braking so max is the one trying to overtake offline to regain the position.

It still amazes me the sim racing community can get this so much better then the fia and it's a very basic concept in that if another car has overlap on you then you must give each other space through the turn.

You realise how limited the vision is, right? If a driver is looking one direction, they're not going to see the car attempting to overtake on the outside. They know they're there from their mirrors before the corner but they don't know if the driver on the outside is going to back off or do something stupid because they're looking in the other direction.

 

[Black_White]

When you are battling a car you are checking in your mirrors down the straight to see if the car behind is close enough to go for a move, you realise this you defend to the inside.

Trying to pretend he couldn't see him is perhaps the most delusional take ive seen on here

View attachment 2154246

May as well say he cant see carlos sainz either, he knows he is there which is why he defends inside then squeezes norris to the edge of the track and if you bother to watch the onboard footage he doesnt run him off until halfway to turn 5 when he opens the steering up to run norris off the road

Freeze frame can be very deceptive. The pic no doubt shows he could see him at that point.
Would need to see video to judge exactly when the car came into view. Would be even better if there was in helmet vision to show where he was looking and just when Lando was seen.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

It will never happen, but there’s a bit of speculation about Ric after Perez’ disastrous weekend.

View attachment 2154283

They are just stupid fluff articles. He is not coming back.

 

[Skull Face]

You realise how limited the vision is, right? If a driver is looking one direction, they're not going to see the car attempting to overtake on the outside. They know they're there from their mirrors before the corner but they don't know if the driver on the outside is going to back off or do something stupid because they're looking in the other direction.

You can see your front tire champ and if you can't see Norris tire directly beside that you should not be behind the wheel of any motor vehicles because you WILL kill someone

 

[Cromulant]

Fair overreaction