F1 F1 2024 thread

[happy_eagle]

So apparently Perez’s contract has a performance clause where he has to be within 100 points of Max by Monza (currently 119 points behind him) so has 3 races to out score Max…. The other apparent clause is that he cannot be more than five places behind Max in the drivers standings….. I think Perez’s time at RBR is over if true

'Perez no longer secured of Red Bull seat despite contract extension'

Sergio Perez recently signed a new contract at Red Bull Racing, but that does not mean the Mexican will automatically stay in 2025, with the fight for the Constructors' championship looking tight after recent poor performances.

racingnews365.com

Assuming this is true, and they are only going to promote mid season from within. They would either

1. Promote Ricciardo/Tsunoda into the Red Bull, and Lawson into the RB for a few races to see how either of them handle the car.
2. Promote Lawson all the way into the main car. Can't see that happening tbh.

So on option 1 would they go for Daniel or Yuki?
Yuki has had the better season, but they don't seem to rate him. Daniel hasn't really done much to suggest he deserves a drive, and many were guessing he wouldn't even see out the season a few weeks ago.

 

[Barrybran]

Assuming this is true, and they are only going to promote mid season from within. They would either

1. Promote Ricciardo/Tsunoda into the Red Bull, and Lawson into the RB for a few races to see how either of them handle the car.
2. Promote Lawson all the way into the main car. Can't see that happening tbh.

So on option 1 would they go for Daniel or Yuki?
Yuki has had the better season, but they don't seem to rate him. Daniel hasn't really done much to suggest he deserves a drive, and many were guessing he wouldn't even see out the season a few weeks ago.

They could afford to put Ricciardo in the seat through to the end of 2025. Tsunoda's contract is sorted so it could be done in such a way as saying to Daniel 'this is your seat for 18 months but there are no guarantees beyond that'. Red Bull keeps the seat open for Tsunoda/Lawson for 2026 but also have the option to extend Ricciardo if Verstappen moves on.

 

[99 Problems]

Assuming this is true, and they are only going to promote mid season from within. They would either

1. Promote Ricciardo/Tsunoda into the Red Bull, and Lawson into the RB for a few races to see how either of them handle the car.
2. Promote Lawson all the way into the main car. Can't see that happening tbh.

So on option 1 would they go for Daniel or Yuki?
Yuki has had the better season, but they don't seem to rate him. Daniel hasn't really done much to suggest he deserves a drive, and many were guessing he wouldn't even see out the season a few weeks ago.

I think it’s all unlikely to happen, but I think they’d go with Ricciardo. If they promote Tsunoda and it doesn’t work and he struggles the rest of the year, he can’t really go back to the second car, so they’d lose him completely.

If Ricciardo doesn’t work they can still let him go at the end of the season, and would have a better idea who out of Lawson and Yuki might be ready to step up, or give the time to try and get in someone like Sainz. And they know Ricciardo will handle the pressure of going for podiums or even wins if he can be competitive.

But that would mean they’re really only buying time for half a season, and to me if you’re doing that you just grit the teeth and stick with Perez for now. Unless they need to ditch Perez now to contractually be allowed to sign his replacement.

 

[happy_eagle]

I think it’s all unlikely to happen, but I think they’d go with Ricciardo. If they promote Tsunoda and it doesn’t work and he struggles the rest of the year, he can’t really go back to the second car, so they’d lose him completely.

If Ricciardo doesn’t work they can still let him go at the end of the season, and would have a better idea who out of Lawson and Yuki might be ready to step up, or give the time to try and get in someone like Sainz. And they know Ricciardo will handle the pressure of going for podiums or even wins if he can be competitive.

But that would mean they’re really only buying time for half a season, and to me if you’re doing that you just grit the teeth and stick with Perez for now. Unless they need to ditch Perez now to contractually be allowed to sign his replacement.

Well if the rumour about his performance clause is correct, he has until after Spa (so 3 more races) to close the gap. Then whoever you put into the seat is getting 10 races, which I think is enough to be able to make a call on Daniel, Yuki or Liam.

 

[darth_timon]

Ricciardo to Red Bull makes sense from the experience perspective. He won't be as quick as Max, but he will be quicker than Perez, he will give good feedback about the car to engineers, nail the setup better, and grant Red Bull tactical flexibility mid-race.

 

[Vader]

They could afford to put Ricciardo in the seat through to the end of 2025. Tsunoda's contract is sorted so it could be done in such a way as saying to Daniel 'this is your seat for 18 months but there are no guarantees beyond that'. Red Bull keeps the seat open for Tsunoda/Lawson for 2026 but also have the option to extend Ricciardo if Verstappen moves on.

Tsunoda won't be with Red Bull or VCARB in 2026, as Honda will no longer be their engine supplier.

 

[jabba5114]

Reading that williams want bottas. If that's true could Danny ric end up at audi? Who do they sign?

Sent from my SM-A556E using Tapatalk

 

[FR0GGY]

So apparently Perez’s contract has a performance clause where he has to be within 100 points of Max by Monza (currently 119 points behind him) so has 3 races to out score Max…. The other apparent clause is that he cannot be more than five places behind Max in the drivers standings….. I think Perez’s time at RBR is over if true

'Perez no longer secured of Red Bull seat despite contract extension'

Sergio Perez recently signed a new contract at Red Bull Racing, but that does not mean the Mexican will automatically stay in 2025, with the fight for the Constructors' championship looking tight after recent poor performances.

racingnews365.com

Oh wow, how’s that hill to climb, 119 points behind and needs to outscore him by 19pts
Not happening.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Don't think Ricciardo deserves to replace Perez. Tsunuda has kicked his ass most of the season.

If Red Bull were smart, they should give the opportunity to Liam Lawson to be number 2 to Max.

Lawson beat Tsunuda last season in 4 out of 5 races. I'm confident that had Lawson been racing this season, he woud of already proven to be the 2nd best driver in the combined RBR/RB team. Just do a straight swap with Perez.

A returning, older, wiser and chastened Daniel Ricciardo might be happy to play tail gunner for Max with the odd scrap / win and being part of a championship winning team.

A young, ambitious Lawson just starting out maybe not so and understandably so.

 

[DamoESP]

Oh wow, how’s that hill to climb, 119 points behind and needs to outscore him by 19pts
Not happening.

Yep. Thing is, the clause in the contract would have been there months ago so he knew what was required of him well before the last race or two.

It’s like having a semester to do a school assignment and only starting it the Sunday night before the due date

 

[Black_White]

have to click the youtube link, sorry.

 

[darth_timon]

have to click the youtube link, sorry.

Well, colour me intrigued, though far too little footage to get a clear idea about it.

 

[Jatz]

Kicked his ass? They’re separated on the Drivers Standings by 8 points.

Also, Red Bull are still smarting from promoting De Vries based on one good drive. While Lawson has shown he’s consistent in a small block of races it wouldn’t shock me if they’re going conservative with promoting him.

8 points (now 9) is a lot when they aren't consistently scoring.

8 points between the top teams is nothing of course. Tsunoda has just under double the points Danny does.

It makes zero sense to me that Dan would replace Perez in the Red Bull seat. There's been nothing to suggest he'd do any better.

 

[Burningleviathan]

Pit strategy costing Oscar a win last night. McLaren were dreadful in general, should have been a 1-2 if they were even close to competent.

 

[Vader]

8 points (now 9) is a lot when they aren't consistently scoring.

8 points between the top teams is nothing of course. Tsunoda has just under double the points Danny does.

It makes zero sense to me that Dan would replace Perez in the Red Bull seat. There's been nothing to suggest he'd do any better.

Better than Perez? Or better than Tsunoda?

Right now, my Grandmother (who passed away 8 years ago) would be a better F1 driver than Perez.

 

[Jatz]

Better than Perez? Or better than Tsunoda?

Right now, my Grandmother (who passed away 8 years ago) would be a better F1 driver than Perez.

Well clearly either.

Until you see someone else in the car, it's hard to judge how much of it is Sergio. Danny hasn't done anywhere near enough to be promoted to that seat, I'd be staggered to see that happen.

 

[Vader]

Well clearly either.

Until you see someone else in the car, it's hard to judge how much of it is Sergio. Danny hasn't done anywhere near enough to be promoted to that seat, I'd be staggered to see that happen.

Don't get me wrong - I'd be staggered to see Dan in anything other than a VCARB this year. I think there's a slim chance that he'll end up in a Williams next year, with NASCAR or Indy being more likely.

Just pointing out that Perez has been seriously awful, and almost any other F1 or F2 driver would be able to do better, given the same machinery.

 

[Jatz]

Don't get me wrong - I'd be staggered to see Dan in anything other than a VCARB this year. I think there's a slim chance that he'll end up in a Williams next year, with NASCAR or Indy being more likely.

Just pointing out that Perez has been seriously awful, and almost any other F1 or F2 driver would be able to do better, given the same machinery.

I'd like to see someone else in before making that call. He's clearly underperforming but until someone else has been in it, it's hard to judge. Suspect most could be quicker but enough to make it worth making the move? I've got some doubts.

As you've said, the Red Bull is nowhere near the car it was. Max is making it work because he's incredible. Obviously Sergio isn't at that level.

 

[Vader]

I'd like to see someone else in before making that call. He's clearly underperforming but until someone else has been in it, it's hard to judge. Suspect most could be quicker but enough to make it worth making the move? I've got some doubts.

As you've said, the Red Bull is nowhere near the car it was. Max is making it work because he's incredible. Obviously Sergio isn't at that level.

I think Perez' results in Austria (7th), Spain (8th) and Imola (8th) are representative of where he & the car are at right now. Alonso is probably the only driver outside of Mercedes/Ferrari/McLaren who would be capable of doing better.

However, his results in Monaco (DNF), Canada (DNF), and Britain (17th) are/were all well below expectations. It's hard not to see Ricciardo, Tsunoda, or a host of other F1 backmarker drivers doing better than these results.

 

[Jatz]

I think Perez' results in Austria (7th), Spain (8th) and Imola (8th) are representative of where he & the car are at right now. Alonso is probably the only driver outside of Mercedes/Ferrari/McLaren who would be capable of doing better.

However, his results in Monaco (DNF), Canada (DNF), and Britain (17th) are/were all well below expectations. It's hard not to see Ricciardo, Tsunoda, or a host of other F1 backmarker drivers doing better than these results.

That's the statement I disagree with. Tsunoda I would say could match him at the very least. Ricciardo I don't see doing any better, nor the other backmarkers with the exception of Hulkenberg. Think he'd do pretty well in it.

It's difficult to judge though - how much of it is the car vs the driving ability for the backmarkers? Often impossible to tell.

 

[happy_eagle]

8 points (now 9) is a lot when they aren't consistently scoring.

8 points between the top teams is nothing of course. Tsunoda has just under double the points Danny does.

It makes zero sense to me that Dan would replace Perez in the Red Bull seat. There's been nothing to suggest he'd do any better.

I kinda get the feeling Red Bull have put a line through Tsunoda for whatever reason and would not consider him in the main seat regardless of how well he drives the RB. Probably due to his temperament, and their departure from Honda.

Which leaves Daniel or Liam as the only realistic options (I don't think they would recruit mid season from outside their lineup, they could do that for 2025). Daniel was the sim driver last year, and tested well in the main car, which is very different to the RB he is currently driving. I don't think they would put Liam directly into the main car, that would be too likely to create another Albon/Gasly situation where a driver is prematurely promoted.

Interestingly though, Liam has a test in the main car this week at Silverstone (the same test that Daniel did last year that led to his drive)

 

[Vader]

That's the statement I disagree with. Tsunoda I would say could match him at the very least. Ricciardo I don't see doing any better, nor the other backmarkers with the exception of Hulkenberg. Think he'd do pretty well in it.

It's difficult to judge though - how much of it is the car vs the driving ability for the backmarkers? Often impossible to tell.

The RBR car is still massively better than the likes of VCARB, Haas, Alpine, Sauber, Williams and Aston Martin... yet he's qualified behind these cars in 3 of his last 6 races, failed to finish 2 of those races, and finished 17th in the other.

I just can't believe that Ricciardo, Tsunoda, Stroll, Albon, Gasly, Ocon, Hulkenberg, Alonso, or Bottas would have done as badly, given the same car, on the same circuits. I don't think they would have improved on his results at Spain, Imola & Austria, but they would surely have improved on his results at Monaco, Canada & Silverstone.

The real issue here is Perez' qualifying failures at those 3 tracks - Monaco, Canada, and Silverstone. When he qualifies badly, he either crashes out completely, or finishes at the rear of the field. He lacks the talent to overtake safely, even given a superior car (relative to the back marker teams). The question is why he's failing so badly in qualifying?

 

[Vader]

I'm not suggesting that these other drivers would have got the 2nd RBR onto the podium at any of the tracks, and probably wouldn't have improved on Perez' results at Imola, Spain & Austria.

I am, however, suggesting that any/all of them would have done better than Perez did at Monaco, Canada & Silverstone.

 

[Jatz]

I kinda get the feeling Red Bull have put a line through Tsunoda for whatever reason and would not consider him in the main seat regardless of how well he drives the RB. Probably due to his temperament, and their departure from Honda.

Which leaves Daniel or Liam as the only realistic options (I don't think they would recruit mid season from outside their lineup, they could do that for 2025). Daniel was the sim driver last year, and tested well in the main car, which is very different to the RB he is currently driving. I don't think they would put Liam directly into the main car, that would be too likely to create another Albon/Gasly situation where a driver is prematurely promoted.

Interestingly though, Liam has a test in the main car this week at Silverstone (the same test that Daniel did last year that led to his drive)

Agree with you on Tsunoda.

Doubt we see Perez move until the end of this year. Wouldn't completely surprise me if they went and asked Carlos to sit in the number 2 seat. He's a better option than any in their current set up.

Doing that would keep D Ric in the feeder team which would be interesting.

 

[Black_White]

There is no doubt in my mind that RIC will get the RB drive if it materialises.
After alll, it’s going backwards at the moment, which would be typical RIC timing…