F1 Championship - Round 17 - Japanese Grand Prix

[NSWCROW]

God Magnussons a campaigner

 

[happy_eagle]

People chasing shadows in this thread

Daniel likely used a tonne of fuel working up through the grid.
He pitted to cover off Kimi on the Mediums (the overcut might not have worked if he stayed out any longer).
Daniel was on a slower tyre than Max, so it isn't hard to imagine he had a tough time staying on his wheel (Max has been faster than him all weekend).

Daniel drove a great race today, but lets try and be just a little bit objective about the race ?

 

[NSWCROW]

Then he runs around on the race line with a shedding tyre


* him off

 

[NSWCROW]

Incredible implosion by Seb since Hockenheim

 

[Garth Vader]

People chasing shadows in this thread

Daniel likely used a tonne of fuel working up through the grid.
He pitted to cover off Kimi on the Mediums (the overcut might not have worked if he stayed out any longer).
Daniel was on a slower tyre than Max, so it isn't hard to imagine he had a tough time staying on his wheel (Max has been faster than him all weekend).

Daniel drove a great race today, but lets try and be just a little bit objective about the race ?

Chasing shadows? Bit harsh.

Yeah, Max was always going to finish almost exactly 5 seconds in front of Dan, relegating him to fourth

BTW, I don't know how you determine Max was faster all weekend if Dan finished in front in FP1 and then had a failure in Q2, unable to show his true pace.

Dan was on a slower tyre but with greater durability and he pitted after Max. He was reeling Max in at a ridiculous rate of knots and then hit an absolute wall when he was within approx 1s. If Max is on the softer compound with less durability, wouldn't you expect Max's tyres to go off first?

Max drove very close to the Mercs for a number of laps with less than ideal downforce from doing so which affects tyre wear. Also, he slid off and hit Vettel twice - easy to imagine some scrubbing and potential damage to winglets etc.

Dan cleared the bulk of those cars in front fairly quickly (EDIT: and he passed most while on his first set of tyres) and he had the benefit of being behind a safety/ vrs car for quite a number of laps - can't imagine fuel being a significant issue, TBH.

So I can't say it's clear to me why Dan would have trouble staying close to Max at the stage of the race when he reeled him in.

 

[imadodgyumpire]

Then he runs around on the race line with a shedding tyre


**** him off

Who?

 

[imadodgyumpire]

Hehehe Max. Driving on the track is only optional!

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Max is the number one driver. They want him to get as many points as he can

Like bottas the week before, Mark was given team orders.

Nothing to see here

 

[happy_eagle]

Yeah, Max was always going to finish almost exactly 5 seconds behind Max, relegating him to fourth

When a drivers position is sealed they tend to turn down the engine and coast to the line. Daniel realised he wasn't going to pass Max so just looked after his engine (which is good given his recent run of engine failures).

BTW, I don't know how you determine Max was faster all weekend if Dan finished in front in FP1 and then had a failure in Q2, unable to show his true pace.

FP2, FP3 and Q1 were pretty good indicators of Max's pace over Daniels

If Max is on the softer compound with less durability, wouldn't you expect Max's tyres to go off first?

Not if he manages them, which he clearly did. Had a lot of tyre to go after Bottas at the end

So I can't say it's clear to me why Dan would have trouble staying close to Max at the stage of the race when he reeled him in.

Dirty air?
Max possibly struggling adjusting to the softs before they warmed up?
Both pretty plausible explanations rather than relying on conspiracy theories

 

[NSWCROW]

Who?

Who was my post before that about ?? , scroll up

 

[Garth Vader]

When a drivers position is sealed they tend to turn down the engine and coast to the line. Daniel realised he wasn't going to pass Max so just looked after his engine (which is good given his recent run of engine failures).


FP2, FP3 and Q1 were pretty good indicators of Max's pace over Daniels


Not if he manages them, which he clearly did. Had a lot of tyre to go after Bottas at the end


Dirty air?
Max possibly struggling adjusting to the softs before they warmed up?
Both pretty plausible explanations rather than relying on conspiracy theories

You watched the race, yeah? Dan did not spend more than about 1 lap on Max's tail before he went backwards at a rate of knots. I haven't seen many drivers put in that little effort before deciding they couldn't pass. You expect me to believe Dan Ricciardo would not relish having a go at Max?

Now let's see, Dan "looked after his engine" by turning it right down, finishing a whisker beyond 5s, thereby relegating him to fourth instead of on the podium? Makes a lot of sense.

There are plausible explanations in isolation but when you take it all in and note the history of RBR, their comments about Dan vs those about Max, and the repetitiveness of these scenarious going against Dan, it becomes pretty clear that Max is being favoured heavily, even thought I can't produce a mathematical proof for you to that effect. Put another way, the cumulative probability of all this s**t happening to Dan is very sus.

While I'm here, have you had confirmation that RBR told Dan about the 5s penalty on Max? Please confirm.

Conspiracy theories? This is a lovely buzz-word that gets rolled out to try to stifle debate.

Anyway, let's agree to disagree.

 

[happy_eagle]

You watched the race, yeah? Dan did not spend more than about 1 lap on Max's tail before he went backwards at a rate of knots. I haven't seen many drivers put in that little effort before deciding they couldn't pass. You expect me to believe Dan Ricciardo would not relish having a go at Max?

Now let's see, Dan "looked after his engine" by turning it right down, finishing a whisker beyond 5s, thereby relegating him to fourth instead of on the podium? Makes a lot of sense.

There are plausible explanations in isolation but when you take it all in and note the history of RBR, their comments about Dan vs those about Max, and the repetitiveness of these scenarious going against Dan, it becomes pretty clear that Max is being favoured heavily, even thought I can't produce a mathematical proof for you to that effect. Put another way, the cumulative probability of all this s**t happening to Dan is very sus.

Max served his time penalty in the pits, not sure why you keep going on about the 5 second gap like its some golden bullet
Also not sure about the bold.Care to elaborate ?
Aussie F1 fans have a victim mentality when it comes to drivers like Dan and Mark . Its always someone elses fault when s**t goes wrong, cause straya

 

[Garth Vader]

Max served his time penalty in the pits, not sure why you keep going on about the 5 second gap like its some golden bullet
Also not sure about the bold.Care to elaborate ?
Aussie F1 fans have a victim mentality when it comes to drivers like Dan and Mark . Its always someone elses fault when s**t goes wrong, cause straya

The time penalty is applied to the final result, if the driver doesn't stop. I'm pretty sure max didn't stop for it, so it was applied to his final time.

I bolded the words 'in isolation' because they were critical to the point I was making.

I tend agree that we tend to have a victim mentality over here, having followed a lot of sport for many years. Sometimes though, there really is a victim who happens to be Australian.

 

[Acinath]

The time penalty is applied to the final result, if the driver doesn't stop. I'm pretty sure max didn't stop for it, so it was applied to his final time.

Max pit after he got the penalty, which is where he served it. That is why he came out just in front of Kimi, rather than 2 corners in front of him.

Crofty even mentioned he had served it right after his pit stop.

 

[Garth Vader]

Max pit after he got the penalty, which is where he served it. That is why he came out just in front of Kimi, rather than 2 corners in front of him.

Crofty even mentioned he had served it right after his pit stop.

Wow, I totally missed that

I actually watched it on a different channel, without Crofty's commentary.

I was convinced Max was serving it 'in real time', which is what my argument (whinging) was based on.

Have to say, that changes my position on this one.

Cheers

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

I missed the Max pit - but he was 22 seconds in front of DR (18 in front of Kimi), then three laps later he was 4 seconds in front of Dan.

Was it just unfortunate traffic? Did Dan get held up by Kimi or did Max put in a couple of stonking laps before the pit.

Also, everyone else was taking 22 seconds or thereabouts - did Max actually serve his five second penalty in his pit stop?

 

[Garth Vader]

I missed the Max pit - but he was 22 seconds in front of DR (18 in front of Kimi), then three laps later he was 4 seconds in front of Dan.

Was it just unfortunate traffic? Did Dan get held up by Kimi or did Max put in a couple of stonking laps before the pit.

Also, everyone else was taking 22 seconds or thereabouts - did Max actually serve his five second penalty in his pit stop?

I've had confirmation from three different articles that he actually did serve the stop in the pits, I have to say, and Acinath just said Crofty reported the same.

But, yeah, I didn't see footage of the stop.

EDIT: Ok, he must have served the stop. He finished only around 1.5s behind Bottas while being physically behind him on the track. If he didn't serve his stop in the pits, he would have been >5s behind on the results sheet.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

I've had confirmation from three different articles that he actually did serve the stop in the pits, I have to say, and Acinath just said Crofty reported the same.

But, yeah, I didn't see footage of the stop.

EDIT: Ok, he must have served the stop. He finished only around 1.5s behind Bottas while being physically behind him on the track. If he didn't serve his stop in the pits, he would have been >5s behind on the results sheet.

I'm wondering if it was actually DR 18 seconds in front of Verstappen, and Max and Kimi had already pitted without it being mentioned (and I'm a moron who misread the timing board).

 

[Garth Vader]

I'm wondering if it was actually DR 18 seconds in front of Verstappen, and Max and Kimi had already pitted without it being mentioned (and I'm a moron who misread the timing board).

Not sure, Mate. There was a flurry of activity at one point and a number of things seem to have been missed by the coverage.

Not easy sometimes to keep track of it all.

 

[Doc_]

How much longer are the stewards going to let Max get away with this s**t?
Making a rod for their own back.

RB dont help either. They did the same with Seb.
Build the lead drivers confidence up at all cost and falsely back them telling them they were in the right when they stuff up. Even to the detriment of the second driver.

Seb.......
He just doesnt have what it takes when the pressure comes.
His championships came under no pressure in clearly superior machinery.
The last 2 years has has just folded under pressure.

 

[Acinath]

I missed the Max pit - but he was 22 seconds in front of DR (18 in front of Kimi), then three laps later he was 4 seconds in front of Dan.

Was it just unfortunate traffic? Did Dan get held up by Kimi or did Max put in a couple of stonking laps before the pit.

Also, everyone else was taking 22 seconds or thereabouts - did Max actually serve his five second penalty in his pit stop?

Max pits when he is about 28seconds in front of Kimi, who’s stuck in traffic. Takes about 22 seconds to pit here, and when Max comes out, he is 1.6secs ahead of Kimi.

Definitely served his penalty.

 

[imadodgyumpire]

I don't pay attention to the DTM. But Paul di Resta is in a close, last round, title showdown next week.