F1 Championship - Round 21 - Abu Dhabi Grand Prix

happy_eagle

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Why do we assume that no one in sport does anything to breaks the rules when in reality there isn't a sport in the world that isn't full of cheating.
Because the cars get tested every weekend for this type of thing?

Also thats not how the burden of proof works. You can't just claim a grand conspiracy like pit to car telemetry being used and then when asked to prove it go "well every sport involves cheating (it doesn't) so this is probably definitely happening because the Aussie driver lost to his team mate again".

Here is a far more plausible scenario in my opinion about what went on Sunday.
  • Max pits before Daniel because he was on the Hypersofts, and RBR had said they were going to split strategies, so it was likely that Daniel was always going long.
  • Max is on the supersofts, which have no trouble going the full race distance so tyre degradation is unlikely to play a major role compared to other tracks. This is proven by Lewis who did around 80% of the race on a set of reds and managed the tempo.
  • Daniel pits onto the supersofts (I wish they had've been a bit more bold and tried the Hypers). He comes out of the pits 7 seconds behind Verstappen who is approaching back markers and Bottas who is having brake issues. This is the main reason that this gap was closed soo quickly.
  • Once both drivers clear Bottas the gap is around 2-3 seconds where it is pretty much stays for the rest of the race. Tyre degradation was not an issue on the supersofts so it really didn't matter a great deal if Daniels tyres were 15 laps newer. There are many examples to choose from in the hybrid era where a car closes a long gap to a car in front but then struggles to pass.

I'm not going to argue this any further, because neither of us are likely to change our minds anytime soon I think
 

davis_756

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Because the cars get tested every weekend for this type of thing?

Also thats not how the burden of proof works. You can't just claim a grand conspiracy like pit to car telemetry being used and then when asked to prove it go "well every sport involves cheating (it doesn't) so this is probably definitely happening because the Aussie driver lost to his team mate again".

Here is a far more plausible scenario in my opinion about what went on Sunday.
  • Max pits before Daniel because he was on the Hypersofts, and RBR had said they were going to split strategies, so it was likely that Daniel was always going long.
  • Max is on the supersofts, which have no trouble going the full race distance so tyre degradation is unlikely to play a major role compared to other tracks. This is proven by Lewis who did around 80% of the race on a set of reds and managed the tempo.
  • Daniel pits onto the supersofts (I wish they had've been a bit more bold and tried the Hypers). He comes out of the pits 7 seconds behind Verstappen who is approaching back markers and Bottas who is having brake issues. This is the main reason that this gap was closed soo quickly.
  • Once both drivers clear Bottas the gap is around 2-3 seconds where it is pretty much stays for the rest of the race. Tyre degradation was not an issue on the supersofts so it really didn't matter a great deal if Daniels tyres were 15 laps newer. There are many examples to choose from in the hybrid era where a car closes a long gap to a car in front but then struggles to pass.

I'm not going to argue this any further, because neither of us are likely to change our minds anytime soon I think
I don't care what you believe, it does not concern me at all.

Just stop trying to convince me of your naive viewpoints
 

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Doc_

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So in Austria, Max was on the radio asking for his engine to be turned down.

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner admitted: “We were quite concerned that there might be a similar problem with Max so we turned his engine down to try and reduce temperatures,”
 

happy_eagle

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So in Austria, Max was on the radio asking for his engine to be turned down.

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner admitted: “We were quite concerned that there might be a similar problem with Max so we turned his engine down to try and reduce temperatures,”
You think Horner would use a media interview to openly talk about breaking the rules ?
The interpretation of that comment that makes the most sense is that Red Bull decided that the engine needed to be turned down, and told Max which settings to change on the wheel to do this. That quote is just a quicker version of saying that.

Plus I've noticed that Horner always talks this way in relation to the team. Its always "we did this" "we did that" as a collective.

Or they are directly breaking the rules, and then bragging about it through the media :rolleyes:
 
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Doc_

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Go watch the replay.
I couldnt find one and I didnt record it.
If I did I would video it on my phone to post here.
Max was getting very agitated asking the team to turn his engine down.
 

Sabbathen

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Why do we assume that no one in sport does anything to breaks the rules when in reality there isn't a sport in the world that isn't full of cheating.
Curious as to why you even bother watching and following the sport when you so strongly believe everyone is either cheating or just making up the numbers and not trying 100%??? Seems kind of pointless and sad you would waste your time if that’s your real opinion.
 

DamoESP

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So in Austria, Max was on the radio asking for his engine to be turned down.

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner admitted: “We were quite concerned that there might be a similar problem with Max so we turned his engine down to try and reduce temperatures,”
Yeah, he means "we" as a collective, i.e Pit wall + driver.

Max would have been asking for instructions on turning his engine down and the Pit Wall wasn't telling him how to (i.e what mode, submenu to enter etc) and he was getting frustrated at not being told the information hence "the team not turning his engine down".

Unfortunately the site that usually has all of the radio transcripts for each race barely has any up for 2018 races so was unable to check exactly what VER said :(
 

Doc_

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Yeah, he means "we" as a collective, i.e Pit wall + driver.

Max would have been asking for instructions on turning his engine down and the Pit Wall wasn't telling him how to (i.e what mode, submenu to enter etc) and he was getting frustrated at not being told the information hence "the team not turning his engine down".

Unfortunately the site that usually has all of the radio transcripts for each race barely has any up for 2018 races so was unable to check exactly what VER said :(
Yeah, I couldnt find anything.
I remember it from the race though. It went on for 2 or 3 laps.
 

davis_756

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Curious as to why you even bother watching and following the sport when you so strongly believe everyone is either cheating or just making up the numbers and not trying 100%??? Seems kind of pointless and sad you would waste your time if that’s your real opinion.
Cycling is amazing to watch despite the fact you know everyone is cheating, it would be better if they didn't but it is outside our control so accept the product for what it is.

Horse racing no different, I know country no name trainers that cheat let alone the big boys, still exciting to see a freak horse.

Just because you can see the faults in something doesn't mean you can't still enjoy it, nothing in life is perfect.
 

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