Drugs Are Bad Mackay?
Moderator
- May 24, 2006
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This Saturday the 2017 grand final losers host the 2018 grand final losers.
Both clubs felt they were on the cusp of something just a few short years ago. Boy, were we wrong.
Where did it all go wrong?
There are some parallels between our clubs’ fall from grace.
The Crows had a 2015-2017 finals run with only a losing grand final to show for it. Collingwood had a 2018-20 finals run with only a losing grand final to show for it.
Both clubs now find themselves a mile off the pace, negotiating a salary cap quagmire which has them paying significant dollars to players no longer at their clubs. Our cap was supposedly bursting at the seams in 2020 – we were paying maximum dollars for that clown show?
Both clubs overpaid their stars from those grand final losses, thinking that they would be around the mark for years to come. The important thing was to keep the juggernaut rolling and keep the team together. Success would override any bloated contracts we were forced to carry. Whoops.
Outside of contracts, what was the chief cause of the Crows’ fall from grace?
I know everyone is sick of hearing about it but was it as simple as the dreaded c-word, destroying our culture and sending us into a nosedive? It’s been done to death so I won't bore you here:
Whatever the reason, we now find ourselves in a rebuild we didn’t plan for.
History repeating
Both clubs have form with self-inflicted wounds curtailing success.
In 2012 the Crows finished 2nd on the ladder and narrowly lost a preliminary final. With a young, promising list, shades had been purchased. Then the Tippett contract “ticking time bomb” went off which saw us finish out of the finals for the next two seasons and sack our coach.
Similarly Collingwood were flying after a drought-breaking premiership in 2010 and another grand final appearance in 2011. Amazingly that was Malthouse’s last game in charge as he stepped aside for favourite son Nathan Buckley. The Director of Coaching role Mick had supposedly agreed to didn’t look quite as rosy when push came to shove so the happy families vision Chins Maguire was forcing didn’t transpire. In effect they traded out a multiple premiership winning coach for a newbie. By choice. Yikes.
It makes our coaching blunders – like sacking Ben Hart for repeated dreadful results and replacing him with… Ben Hart, after Hart returned from Victoria unable to land an role at a single club – seem amateur by comparison.
And what are your reason’s for wanting to coach Carlton, Mr Malthouse?
Mick Malthouse: [Don’t say revenge. Don’t say revenge.] Uhh… revenge?
Who’d you rather be?
I think Adelaide is ahead of Collingwood at this point in time for one key reason; we realised earlier on that we suck.
So we’re about 12-18 months in front of the Pies, freshening up the team, trying to bring through some young talent and have banked one very early pick who looks franchise good.
The Pies are still clinging to the past as the Crows were in 2019.
Mason Cox’s preliminary final effort has become a bit like That Stevens Final in Collingwood folklore, providing selection credits for years and years. Believe it or not but Chris Mayne is still running around. So is Josh Thomas. The club is yet to acknowledge that injuries ruined Jamie Elliott’s career about five years ago. They are also hoping that 2022 will be Will Hoskin-Elliott’s break out season.
It’s like they have half a dozen David Mackays. So almost Scott Camporeale’s dream line up.
Rebuild
Do we have enough talent to rebuild with?
As it stands we are in line for Pick 4 in the national draft so can add another tall defender to make up for all the others who have left or haven’t come on.
Have we stockpiled enough talent to climb the ladder? Let’s have a look at how our younger players are coming on:
Chayce Jones and Ned McHenry’s ratings have been edited over the last month:Bigger busts than Dolly Parton, sack Hamish right now TBC.
Darcy Fogarty has been a divisive player both in the club’s selection committee meetings (took him until Year 4 to get a stretch of 5 games…) and also on this board, where he is simultaneously a better kick for goal than Hall of Fame Legend Tony Lockett and also not worthy of being on an AFL list. At the moment the stage is yours, Darcy. He has shown some glimpses of real quality. I hope we leave Tex, Darcy and Riley to work together and gel as a structure.
A stint down back in the twos could have done wonders for Lockett's development
It took the club a long time to decide between Billy Frampton and Elliot Himmelberg, shuffling them both in and out of the team for almost a season and a half. Finally they have realised that the correct choice was neither of them. Enter Riley Thilthorpe. In the Thilthorpe thread (try saying that three times fast) posters have been trying to find a player comparison for him. The nearest we can come up with is that he’s Koutafides-Salmon-Tippett-Bontempelli-Richardson-Roughead-Antrobus hybrid.
Schoenberg and Sholl have shown plenty. I’m not used to seeing class around the midfield but could get used to it.
Hopefully Hamill gets a full run. The positive for him from last week is that he ruled specialist sub out as a career option.
One who has shown a bit of promise is Sam Berry but he is out with concussion unfortunately. Perhaps Shane McAdam could be an inclusion?
Overall we have added “some” talent to our list. Are there enough genuine A Graders among that lot plus Pedlar and Cook to see us rise? Jury still out.
It’s important not to cling too closely to long held beliefs
I have a deep-seated mistrust of players with boganised Christian names. Imagine going through this every time your need to register for something?
First name?
Jordon
(typing) J-o-r-d-a-n
No, with an oh
It’s got an oh
No, I mean two ohs
Really? (typing) J-o-o-r-d-a-n
No, I mean one oh at the start and one oh at the end
(typing) J-o-r-d-a-n-o
Sorry, oh instead of the a
(typing) J-o-r-d-o-n-o
Who could be bothered? Must be time consuming. Pro-tip for any expecting parents out there who are deciding on baby names: If you have to spell it for people then choose something else.
However Jordon Butts has me rethinking that belief. He’s done well down back in the absence of Talia and Hartigan. I need to reassess my philosophy.
Similarly is it time the club re-examined one of its core beliefs?
Perhaps the most significant find of the season has been the club’s recent discovery of rests.
Taylor Walker was starting to look a bit sore so had a week off when we travelled to Perth. He returned the next week and won us the game against undefeated Melbourne despite lacking continuity.
Maybe Tom Lynch and Daniel Talia wouldn’t be in for season ending surgery if they were freshened up when required? It was painful seeing Rory Sloane and Tex hobbling around week after week last season. Must be so deflating for the other players too. Shows no faith in the depth players and younger players. No faith that new leaders might emerge. Just culture and list development poison.
Just when you think that the penny might have dropped and we’ve seen an end to the sheer, unadulterated idiocy that runs rampant through our club for years you read this:
It is of course crucial that Reilly gets on the park, what with our 4-7 record and coming off a wooden spoon season. We just cannot afford him to miss a single game because it might lead to more sensible player management decisions.
If we don’t conquer this Continuity Demon the club will never, ever be successful again.
Out: Dumbness
In: Thinking
The game itself
I’ll be really interested in the speed of the game this week.
Collingwood’s last 5 games have been low scoring shitshows. They find it hard to score themselves but manage to turn matches into dour, grinding affairs. They have looked very careful when moving the ball this season but are hard to break down.
Our best football has been when we’ve moved the ball on quickly, are prepared to generate some run with handball even through traffic and look for options in the corridor even if there’s an element of risk.
Will Collingwood’s defensive set up force us to play a slow, cautious game which plays into their hands? Or will we be able to break through with some courage and dare?
Our ‘free-wheeling’ play does come unstuck at times but a few turnovers are worth the price because when we play slow we suck anyway and win wooden spoons.
Interestingly the last team to open the Pies up was the Bombers who also like to play a fast, aggressive game.
Tip
Either a scrappy, low scoring narrow loss with Joordano Butts our best player. Or a fun, fast, exhilarating 35 point win.
The latter please.
Who doesn’t love a win? Draft pick be damned. The defender we want will still be there at our pick.
Both clubs felt they were on the cusp of something just a few short years ago. Boy, were we wrong.
Where did it all go wrong?
There are some parallels between our clubs’ fall from grace.
The Crows had a 2015-2017 finals run with only a losing grand final to show for it. Collingwood had a 2018-20 finals run with only a losing grand final to show for it.
Both clubs now find themselves a mile off the pace, negotiating a salary cap quagmire which has them paying significant dollars to players no longer at their clubs. Our cap was supposedly bursting at the seams in 2020 – we were paying maximum dollars for that clown show?
Both clubs overpaid their stars from those grand final losses, thinking that they would be around the mark for years to come. The important thing was to keep the juggernaut rolling and keep the team together. Success would override any bloated contracts we were forced to carry. Whoops.
Outside of contracts, what was the chief cause of the Crows’ fall from grace?
I know everyone is sick of hearing about it but was it as simple as the dreaded c-word, destroying our culture and sending us into a nosedive? It’s been done to death so I won't bore you here:
Continuity
Whatever the reason, we now find ourselves in a rebuild we didn’t plan for.
History repeating
Both clubs have form with self-inflicted wounds curtailing success.
In 2012 the Crows finished 2nd on the ladder and narrowly lost a preliminary final. With a young, promising list, shades had been purchased. Then the Tippett contract “ticking time bomb” went off which saw us finish out of the finals for the next two seasons and sack our coach.
Similarly Collingwood were flying after a drought-breaking premiership in 2010 and another grand final appearance in 2011. Amazingly that was Malthouse’s last game in charge as he stepped aside for favourite son Nathan Buckley. The Director of Coaching role Mick had supposedly agreed to didn’t look quite as rosy when push came to shove so the happy families vision Chins Maguire was forcing didn’t transpire. In effect they traded out a multiple premiership winning coach for a newbie. By choice. Yikes.
It makes our coaching blunders – like sacking Ben Hart for repeated dreadful results and replacing him with… Ben Hart, after Hart returned from Victoria unable to land an role at a single club – seem amateur by comparison.
And what are your reason’s for wanting to coach Carlton, Mr Malthouse?
Mick Malthouse: [Don’t say revenge. Don’t say revenge.] Uhh… revenge?
Who’d you rather be?
I think Adelaide is ahead of Collingwood at this point in time for one key reason; we realised earlier on that we suck.
So we’re about 12-18 months in front of the Pies, freshening up the team, trying to bring through some young talent and have banked one very early pick who looks franchise good.
The Pies are still clinging to the past as the Crows were in 2019.
Mason Cox’s preliminary final effort has become a bit like That Stevens Final in Collingwood folklore, providing selection credits for years and years. Believe it or not but Chris Mayne is still running around. So is Josh Thomas. The club is yet to acknowledge that injuries ruined Jamie Elliott’s career about five years ago. They are also hoping that 2022 will be Will Hoskin-Elliott’s break out season.
It’s like they have half a dozen David Mackays. So almost Scott Camporeale’s dream line up.
Rebuild
Do we have enough talent to rebuild with?
As it stands we are in line for Pick 4 in the national draft so can add another tall defender to make up for all the others who have left or haven’t come on.
Have we stockpiled enough talent to climb the ladder? Let’s have a look at how our younger players are coming on:
Chayce Jones and Ned McHenry’s ratings have been edited over the last month:
Darcy Fogarty has been a divisive player both in the club’s selection committee meetings (took him until Year 4 to get a stretch of 5 games…) and also on this board, where he is simultaneously a better kick for goal than Hall of Fame Legend Tony Lockett and also not worthy of being on an AFL list. At the moment the stage is yours, Darcy. He has shown some glimpses of real quality. I hope we leave Tex, Darcy and Riley to work together and gel as a structure.
A stint down back in the twos could have done wonders for Lockett's development
It took the club a long time to decide between Billy Frampton and Elliot Himmelberg, shuffling them both in and out of the team for almost a season and a half. Finally they have realised that the correct choice was neither of them. Enter Riley Thilthorpe. In the Thilthorpe thread (try saying that three times fast) posters have been trying to find a player comparison for him. The nearest we can come up with is that he’s Koutafides-Salmon-Tippett-Bontempelli-Richardson-Roughead-Antrobus hybrid.
Schoenberg and Sholl have shown plenty. I’m not used to seeing class around the midfield but could get used to it.
Hopefully Hamill gets a full run. The positive for him from last week is that he ruled specialist sub out as a career option.
One who has shown a bit of promise is Sam Berry but he is out with concussion unfortunately. Perhaps Shane McAdam could be an inclusion?
Overall we have added “some” talent to our list. Are there enough genuine A Graders among that lot plus Pedlar and Cook to see us rise? Jury still out.
It’s important not to cling too closely to long held beliefs
I have a deep-seated mistrust of players with boganised Christian names. Imagine going through this every time your need to register for something?
First name?
Jordon
(typing) J-o-r-d-a-n
No, with an oh
It’s got an oh
No, I mean two ohs
Really? (typing) J-o-o-r-d-a-n
No, I mean one oh at the start and one oh at the end
(typing) J-o-r-d-a-n-o
Sorry, oh instead of the a
(typing) J-o-r-d-o-n-o
Who could be bothered? Must be time consuming. Pro-tip for any expecting parents out there who are deciding on baby names: If you have to spell it for people then choose something else.
However Jordon Butts has me rethinking that belief. He’s done well down back in the absence of Talia and Hartigan. I need to reassess my philosophy.
Similarly is it time the club re-examined one of its core beliefs?
Perhaps the most significant find of the season has been the club’s recent discovery of rests.
Taylor Walker was starting to look a bit sore so had a week off when we travelled to Perth. He returned the next week and won us the game against undefeated Melbourne despite lacking continuity.
Maybe Tom Lynch and Daniel Talia wouldn’t be in for season ending surgery if they were freshened up when required? It was painful seeing Rory Sloane and Tex hobbling around week after week last season. Must be so deflating for the other players too. Shows no faith in the depth players and younger players. No faith that new leaders might emerge. Just culture and list development poison.
Just when you think that the penny might have dropped and we’ve seen an end to the sheer, unadulterated idiocy that runs rampant through our club for years you read this:
It is of course crucial that Reilly gets on the park, what with our 4-7 record and coming off a wooden spoon season. We just cannot afford him to miss a single game because it might lead to more sensible player management decisions.
If we don’t conquer this Continuity Demon the club will never, ever be successful again.
Out: Dumbness
In: Thinking
The game itself
I’ll be really interested in the speed of the game this week.
Collingwood’s last 5 games have been low scoring shitshows. They find it hard to score themselves but manage to turn matches into dour, grinding affairs. They have looked very careful when moving the ball this season but are hard to break down.
Our best football has been when we’ve moved the ball on quickly, are prepared to generate some run with handball even through traffic and look for options in the corridor even if there’s an element of risk.
Will Collingwood’s defensive set up force us to play a slow, cautious game which plays into their hands? Or will we be able to break through with some courage and dare?
Our ‘free-wheeling’ play does come unstuck at times but a few turnovers are worth the price because when we play slow we suck anyway and win wooden spoons.
Interestingly the last team to open the Pies up was the Bombers who also like to play a fast, aggressive game.
Tip
Either a scrappy, low scoring narrow loss with Joordano Butts our best player. Or a fun, fast, exhilarating 35 point win.
The latter please.
Who doesn’t love a win? Draft pick be damned. The defender we want will still be there at our pick.
