Coach Fages and the coaching group

[martinson]

I don't think there's any doubt that Kingsley is a good coach but because he coaches GWS where they draw under 20k for a cut throat final he tends to get off scot free. There's just not the media interest in bagging him. The narrative is that he's basically doing a very good job.

If Brisbane had produced exactly what GWS did in its two finals Fagan would have had an outburst of criticism like you've never seen. Because the talking heads in the media have run with the story that Brisbane have the best list but are flakey under pressure for some time and they'd just love to double down on it with the Itoldyas every time we stumble.

Fwiiw I think we overrate some of our players and are a good side but not there as a champion one.

 

[BangyBangy]

We're the best team in it because we have 9 top 20 picks in our side.

Brilliant analysis. Top shelf.

Geelong have been topping up a competitive side for years now VS a team that went through a bottom up rebuild. Hard to bring in young first round talent when you're using your picks to bring in players like Jeremy Cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

32

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

etc.

Btw, Pretty sure the team we just defeated with the 'masterclass coach' had a fair bit of top end first round draft talent running around. Maybe even more than us......... impossible.

 

[martinson]

The other narrative that they just can't get away from is that Joe Daniher is flakey and he redeemed himself on Saturday. These guys just make things up. He's been AA squad last 2 years and unlucky not to be AA. Before that he played half a year where he couldn't lift his arm over his head and still had impact. He's been a very good finals player. He brings people through the gate.

On any measure he's a consistent ,great player.

 

[RoyBoy17]

Last week Kingy couldn't wait to smash Fages and double down on his point during the game (wanted the old 'SEE I TOLD YOU SO' moment), he let us all know at qtr time last week, was so confident of our demise that he doubled down at half time, post game he steered away from giving any form of credit to our coaching staff and decided to gloss over some of Kingleys own coaching blunders.

The coaching masterclass he talks about was to put Bedford on Neale and Peatling on Zorko (real original mind bending stuff). Like what does he want Fagan to do? Put Zorko to Full Forward. Zorko gets goals kicked on him every week, it's not new. Zorko also kicked two on Peatling in the second half and helped drag us over the line. His forward runs from the back half were crucial. I would argue persisting with Peatling on Zorko was also stupid and ran its course by halfway through the third. Peatling destroyed us at stoppage in the last game we played and the master coach took him away from his strength to try and quell Zorko. At no stage did Kingsley change this when we got going at stoppage. He fails to bring this up.

We also made a move to put Ashcroft at centre bounce which changed the game. Why didn't Bedford go to Ashcroft when Neale was clearly on one leg late and having little impact in the game? He fails to bring this up.

I am the first to admit that Chris Fagan probably doesn't have the tactical nous of a few others in the league. But the only move you could potentially be critical of Fagan was having Payne on Hogan all game. Which in the end, despite their early edge at stoppage didn't win them the game.

 

[martinson]

Last week Kingy couldn't wait to smash Fages and double down on his point during the game (wanted the old 'SEE I TOLD YOU SO' moment), he let us all know at qtr time last week, was so confident of our demise that he doubled down at half time, post game he steered away from giving any form of credit to our coaching staff and decided to gloss over some of Kingleys own coaching blunders.

The coaching masterclass he talks about was to put Bedford on Neale and Peatling on Zorko (real original mind bending stuff). Like what does he want Fagan to do? Put Zorko to Full Forward. Zorko gets goals kicked on him every week, it's not new. Zorko also kicked two on Peatling in the second half and helped drag us over the line. His forward runs from the back half were crucial. I would argue persisting with Peatling on Zorko was also stupid and ran its course by halfway through the third. Peatling destroyed us at stoppage in the last game we played and the master coach took him away from his strength to try and quell Zorko. At no stage did Kingsley change this when we got going at stoppage. He fails to bring this up.

We also made a move to put Ashcroft at centre bounce which changed the game. Why didn't Bedford go to Ashcroft when Neale was clearly on one leg late and having little impact in the game? He fails to bring this up.

I am the first to admit that Chris Fagan probably doesn't have the tactical nous of a few others in the league. But the only move you could potentially be critical of Fagan was having Payne on Hogan all game. Which in the end, despite their early edge at stoppage didn't win them the game.

Payne worried me but we made a judgement that Payne with his knee issue was a better bet than Joyce who has had a jaw issue.

After that there weren't any options unless we wanted to disrupt our back half and expose Payne even more up the field.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Why didn't Kingsley move Taylor off Daniher after the 3rd goal? Clueless. They would have won the game.

King would be that w***er who changes lanes in a traffic jam beacuse he thinks other lanes are moving faster.

 

[Tom14]

We're the best team in it because we have 9 top 20 picks in our side.

Brilliant analysis. Top shelf.

Geelong have been topping up a competitive side for years now VS a team that went through a bottom up rebuild. Hard to bring in young first round talent when you're using your picks to bring in players like Jeremy Cameron etc.

Btw, Pretty sure the team we just defeated with the 'masterclass coach' had a fair bit of top end first round draft talent running around. Maybe even more than us......... impossible.

He can't even be bothered to get that basic fact right - if we are talking just about players we drafted, its 10 top 20 picks (Starce, Ashy, clug, Cam, Bez, Eric, Zac, Kai, Jaspa, Motty). If we include players traded in, it is 12 with Cal and Joe added.

It would not be hard to do a quick search of previous david king opinions to find him criticising many of those players. Eric definitely, Cam and Zac for sure. He criticised Clug for being a front-runner on several, several occasions too.

 

[Happy_Neale]

I really don't think Fages is that bad tactically, if you consider 'backing your players in' as a genuine in game tactic. He clearly has insitlled a system that works so making dramatic personnel changes makes little sense for a team like us

 

[M Malice]

We're the best team in it because we have 9 top 20 picks in our side.

Brilliant analysis. Top shelf.

Geelong have been topping up a competitive side for years now VS a team that went through a bottom up rebuild. Hard to bring in young first round talent when you're using your picks to bring in players like Jeremy Cameron etc.

Btw, Pretty sure the team we just defeated with the 'masterclass coach' had a fair bit of top end first round draft talent running around. Maybe even more than us......... impossible.

If only we had Jack Watts and Josh Schache as our key forwards... we'd be going for back to back this season.

 

[martinson]

I really don't think Fages is that bad tactically, if you consider 'backing your players in' as a genuine in game tactic. He clearly has insitlled a system that works so making dramatic personnel changes makes little sense for a team like us

Tactics isn't our strong suit but it's a luxury coaches can mostly afford if they have good players.

 

[knaf]

Just on King, do people realise that the more we click on his clips, watch his shows and make comments on his rubbish, the air time he gets. Just ignore everything he says. Nothing will hurt him more.

 

[M Malice]

I don't think there's any doubt that Kingsley is a good coach but because he coaches GWS where they draw under 20k for a cut throat final he tends to get off scot free. There's just not the media interest in bagging him. The narrative is that he's basically doing a very good job.

If Brisbane had produced exactly what GWS did in its two finals Fagan would have had an outburst of criticism like you've never seen. Because the talking heads in the media have run with the story that Brisbane have the best list but are flakey under pressure for some time and they'd just love to double down on it with the Itoldyas every time we stumble.

Fwiiw I think we overrate some of our players and are a good side but not there as a champion one.

Could not agree more with the bolded, they'd be saying Fagan has lost the playing group.

 

[Tom14]

Just on King, do people realise that the more we click on his clips, watch his shows and make comments on his rubbish, the air time he gets. Just ignore everything he says. Nothing will hurt him more.

I dunno, he got pretty mad on twitter last night lol.

 

[M Malice]

 

[Elixuh]

I dunno, he got pretty mad on twitter last night lol.

Yeah normally I’d agree with clicks but his pea brain was genuinely triggered last night hahaha

 

[buttermuffs]

I don't think there's any doubt that Kingsley is a good coach but because he coaches GWS where they draw under 20k for a cut throat final he tends to get off scot free. There's just not the media interest in bagging him. The narrative is that he's basically doing a very good job.

If Brisbane had produced exactly what GWS did in its two finals Fagan would have had an outburst of criticism like you've never seen. Because the talking heads in the media have run with the story that Brisbane have the best list but are flakey under pressure for some time and they'd just love to double down on it with the Itoldyas every time we stumble.

Fwiiw I think we overrate some of our players and are a good side but not there as a champion one.

I think it’s because Kingsley is a second year coach who took a GWS side that was heading into a potential rebuild last year and reinvigorated them into a contender. The players were down and blue in Leon Cameron’s last few years and they had finished 16th in 2022.

 

[knaf]

I dunno, he got pretty mad on twitter last night lol.

Maybe but five pages of he said this/he said that……..(all appeared cr*p as I scrolled through it) is doing my head in. I don’t give a rats a about his opinion and it will have no effect on the outcome Saturday night.

 

[Schache_off]

I really don't think Fages is that bad tactically, if you consider 'backing your players in' as a genuine in game tactic. He clearly has insitlled a system that works so making dramatic personnel changes makes little sense for a team like us

There was a video of Clarkson commenting on Fagan and Scott with game tactics and he said they're both strong which seemed to surprise Lloyd when he asked the question. Clarkson is someone who would definitely know if Fagan is any good with the tactics of the game. Goes against what most say about the lions and their coaches.

 

[Happy_Neale]

There was a video of Clarkson commenting on Fagan and Scott with game tactics and he said they're both strong which seemed to surprise Lloyd when he asked the question. Clarkson is someone who would definitely know if Fagan is any good with the tactics of the game. Goes against what most say about the lions and their coaches.

That doesn't surprise me tbh, as if Fagan was director of coaching for a very successful team and then head coach for another successful coach while being tactically inept

 

[Elixuh]

To be clear all this stuff about tactics and being tactically astute, it’s 99% optics. Some coaches are simply more willing than others to make more frequent tactical moves. I think that’s what it comes down to.

There is only one coach in the league who imo is a tactical spud and that’s Simon ‘degenerate’ Goodwin.

 

[pod17]

Whether it is Fagan, or the introduction of Dew (or others), I think we have been better tactically this year. With so many injuries to our starting 22 early on, it has been a tremendous effort to shift personnel into and around the side to win two finals (and hopefully more).

Saturday night was a great example. Zorko being tagged at HB, subbed out Morris to bring in McKenna to generate run and get Zorko dangerous in the front half. Ah Chee to a defensive HF role on Whitfield limiting his run. Ashcroft more time inside to chop Neale out from the Bedford attention and generate momentum at the stoppages.

In fairness, changes like this probably happen within games each week that go somewhat unnoticed. However, it is nice for Fagan and the coaches when they come off so overtly.

I hope it extends into this week. Scott, in my opinion, is the best coach in the AFL and will have multiple plans for players and scenarios. I think the game will be won in the midfield (helps with Big O in good form), and the form of our half forward line (Rayner, Bailey, Cameron, Lohmann versus the Cats backs). I have more confidence in Fagan this year, compared to 2022, to come with a robust plan and execute.

I have knocked Fagan in the past, but his performance this year has been very impressive (especially with the backdrop of the Hawthorn racism human rights case). If he can get us through - and secure another win the week after - it would be one of the more impressive coaching performances that I can recall.

 

[Tom14]

I think it’s because Kingsley is a second year coach who took a GWS side that was heading into a potential rebuild last year and reinvigorated them into a contender. The players were down and blue in Leon Cameron’s last few years and they had finished 16th in 2022.

Was it tactics or was it unreal goalkicking accuracy from a few players (e.g. Hogan) papering over some significant cracks in GWS' game?

If everyone in the comp had kicked to expectation, they'd have finished well outside the 8:



Both gold coast and us kicked so badly there was a 10 goal turnaround from expected score to the actual results.

To their credit, I reckon that GWS were significantly better in their 2 finals than they were for much of their mickey mouse run late in the season. And obviously, good goal kicking is good footy, that can't be discounted. But their opponent kicking so inaccurately (and particularly from set shots) isn't something they control.

But then they lost both games when they should have won on expected score - goalkicking accuracy is pretty volatile and it turned on them at the worst moment.

 

[martinson]

Was it tactics or was it unreal goalkicking accuracy from a few players (e.g. Hogan) papering over some significant cracks in GWS' game?

If everyone in the comp had kicked to expectation, they'd have finished well outside the 8:



Both gold coast and us kicked so badly there was a 10 goal turnaround from expected score to the actual results.

To their credit, I reckon that GWS were significantly better in their 2 finals than they were for much of their mickey mouse run late in the season. And obviously, good goal kicking is good footy, that can't be discounted. But their opponent kicking so inaccurately (and particularly from set shots) isn't something they control.

But then they lost both games when they should have won one expected score - goalkicking accuracy is pretty volatile and it turned on them at the worst moment.

I get all that and the arguments re expected score etc. which just proves the point that kicking for goal is one of if not the most important factor in footy that is within your control.

As Louie and Jack used to say every week Bad kicking is Bad football.

 

[Tom14]

I get all that and the arguments re expected score etc. which just proves the point that kicking for goal is one of if not the most important factor in footy that is within your control.

As Louie and Jack used to say every week Bad kicking is Bad football.

Correct, but even more important than your own kicking for goal is your opponents being the three stooges and comically missing.

 

[SeaOfFire]

Was it tactics or was it unreal goalkicking accuracy from a few players (e.g. Hogan) papering over some significant cracks in GWS' game?

If everyone in the comp had kicked to expectation, they'd have finished well outside the 8:



Both gold coast and us kicked so badly there was a 10 goal turnaround from expected score to the actual results.

To their credit, I reckon that GWS were significantly better in their 2 finals than they were for much of their mickey mouse run late in the season. And obviously, good goal kicking is good footy, that can't be discounted. But their opponent kicking so inaccurately (and particularly from set shots) isn't something they control.

But then they lost both games when they should have won on expected score - goalkicking accuracy is pretty volatile and it turned on them at the worst moment.

Cool.

But that was yesterday dude.

I love you, hi5

We are Geelong of 2022.....and THEY are the Lions......

AT BEST.

They can't be us, and they can't beat us

/peace