Coach Fages and the coaching group

[martinson]

I tend to think all the banter from the above posters is true but at the end of the day it makes no difference to our game plan/strategy if you have 6 out of the 22 not contributing or putting in effort......and that is what is happening of recent times. I know and have seen for some times now, we get an even spread of contributers across the board in any given game and we win almost every time. Now coming to the crunch end of the season, the leadership group need to step up & have those players made accountable. Its got to come from the leaders inside the 22, not the coach.

Absolutely true.

Which is why we had nothing to lose by throwing Daniher onto the ball ,Fullarton deep , McCarthy into the M/F , Charlie presenting to the ball carrier drawing defenders and then doubling back with the old decoy trick , and Bailey into the back half to try and run it out.

They weren't doing anything where they were playing. Make them accountable by putting them into the game.

 

[SizeMatters]

View attachment 1194775

That would suggest we haven't been going down the line enough... Maybe this is the reason teams have been getting easy I50 against us as we are turning it over in dangerous areas?

I would assume that any plan B would rely on winning the ball at the contest or putting pressure on the ball carrier to create turnovers it doesn't matter how many plans you have if you can't implement the basic pressure around the ball.

Reckon corridor footy works if you have a decent forward line to lock the ball in. We have two guns who refuse to do the hard work when things aren't going thier way. While good offensively they are massive liabilities defensively. We need to lock the ball in front half. Need the HBF, to mids and esp the forwards to do more coverage and defence first mentality. I feel like we have to go boundary now thst we are out if form and missing two dynamic targets up front I hipwood and rayner. Daniher and Cameron aren't playing well....

 

[Mighty Lions]

Absolutely true.

Which is why we had nothing to lose by throwing Daniher onto the ball ,Fullarton deep , McCarthy into the M/F , Charlie presenting to the ball carrier drawing defenders and then doubling back with the old decoy trick , and Bailey into the back half to try and run it out.

They weren't doing anything where they were playing. Make them accountable by putting them into the game.

Moving them away from their original position isn't necessarily putting them in the game nor getting them to put in more. Peer pressure from the leadership group to acknowledge they need to step up rather than mediocre efforts is what they need to own no matter where they are on the ground.

 

[martinson]

Moving them away from their original position isn't necessarily putting them in the game nor getting them to put in more. Peer pressure from the leadership group to acknowledge they need to step up rather than mediocre efforts is what they need to own no matter where they are on the ground.

That's true too Mighty Lions. But we were getting flogged by 7 or 8 and they're good players who could have turned it around for us if we put it on them and pushed them out of the comfort zone.

Probably wouldn't have worked but we were obviously going to lose anyway and would've been a great opportunity to test them out. A change is as good as a holiday ,is it not.

Overall we're too predictable ,something Fages has said many times he strives for ,which is fine if you're good enough to be predictable and playing well enough.

 

[jackess]

That's true too Mighty Lions. But we were getting flogged by 7 or 8 and they're good players who could have turned it around for us if we put it on them and pushed them out of the comfort zone.

Probably wouldn't have worked but we were obviously going to lose anyway and would've been a great opportunity to test them out. A change is as good as a holiday ,is it not.

Overall we're too predictable ,something Fages has said many times he strives for ,which is fine if you're good enough to be predictable and playing well enough.

The statistic posted above around the corridor vs boundary ball movement would indicate we're not too predictable despite what David King might say

 

[Macca225]

Reckon corridor footy works if you have a decent forward line to lock the ball in. We have two guns who refuse to do the hard work when things aren't going thier way. While good offensively they are massive liabilities defensively. We need to lock the ball in front half. Need the HBF, to mids and esp the forwards to do more coverage and defence first mentality. I feel like we have to go boundary now thst we are out if form and missing two dynamic targets up front I hipwood and rayner. Daniher and Cameron aren't playing well....

I agree that Daniher (can't tackle unless its a run down) and Cameron haven't been great defensively (we really miss Hippy for that as he would run all day), I'm not sure the blame can be placed with them, our 2 games where we have looked really poor St Kilda and Hawks we only had 43 and 40 inside 50s so the ball wasn't getting down there. Interestingly we also had 15 tackles inside 50 compared to the Hawks 11 and we only had 7 when we beat Geelong by 44, 16 against the crows, 11 against the Saints.

 

[Macca225]

what David King might say

 

[martinson]

The statistic posted above around the corridor vs boundary ball movement would indicate we're not too predictable despite what David King might say

Do you think those stats are right ? The first observation is that it's been mostly in our defensive half those last 4 games . What defines boundary use ? Can hardly remember us going the corridor as a strategy . Can you ? We went inboard a couple of times due to no other options but not in an attacking sense , just short kicks to someone fairly closely manned. The turnovers are coming from poor disposal which on Sunday at least was mostly down the line or to the pocket and often the second kick.

 

[jackess]

Do you think those stats are right ? The first observation is that it's been mostly in our defensive half those last 4 games . What defines boundary use ? Can hardly remember us going the corridor as a strategy . Can you ? We went inboard a couple of times due to no other options but not in an attacking sense , just short kicks to someone fairly closely manned. The turnovers are coming from poor disposal which on Sunday at least was mostly down the line or to the pocket and often the second kick.

It most definitely is our strategy. The way we play isn't always the way we'd like to play. Using the boundary over the corridor is probably similar to kicking a behind instead of a goal, it's never your intention. When you get the ball at half back you're always looking to go the quickest way to goals eg. the Rich to Zorko to Linc ball chain from a few weeks back.

I remember one piece of play when Daniher got the footy and looked inboard on the weekend. Pulled off a ripping kick to someone in the corridor.

The issue is we're not a hard running team. The opposition consistently runs an extra 5% harder than us. So we get pressured into slowing the game down or kicking to a pack. We also don't have a lot of great kicks.

A gameplan isn't going to make Lyons or Birchall more fit. It's going to come with a change in personnel which we've been trying to do

 

[Mighty Lions]

It most definitely is our strategy. The way we play isn't always the way we'd like to play. Using the boundary over the corridor is probably similar to kicking a behind instead of a goal, it's never your intention. When you get the ball at half back you're always looking to go the quickest way to goals eg. the Rich to Zorko to Linc ball chain from a few weeks back.

I remember one piece of play when Daniher got the footy and looked inboard on the weekend. Pulled off a ripping kick to someone in the corridor.

The issue is we're not a hard running team. The opposition consistently runs an extra 5% harder than us. So we get pressured into slowing the game down or kicking to a pack. We also don't have a lot of great kicks.

A gameplan isn't going to make Lyons or Birchall more fit. It's going to come with a change in personnel which we've been trying to do

Lyons is elite fit. Birchall somewhat not. It's not fitness thats the problem...its effort. Our mids dont run defensively anywhere near enough. Clug, Bailey, Robbo, Zorks the main offenders along with 2 serial offenders in the forward line to pressure the opposition running backs taking the ball away.

 

[M Malice]

I think it was Leigh Matthews who said the most underrated form of courage in footy is being able to gut run when you are already fatigued, it's mental as well as physical... Nigel Lappin and Shaun Hart

Shaun Hart

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52

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175cm

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74kg

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Mid

Career

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16.1

4star

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10.5

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5.6

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3.5

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2.1

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24.2

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15.2

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9.0

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5.0

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were elite at it.

 

[Squizz89]

We really need to get more out of Charlie somehow. Just had a look to see how he has performed this year. Doesn’t make for great reading for him especially the drop off in that last stat:


Still averaging nearly 2 goals a game but we really need more from him in the “effort” areas of the game.

 

[M Malice]

David Noble and Chris Fagan on AFL 360 last night >

 

[martinson]

It most definitely is our strategy. The way we play isn't always the way we'd like to play. Using the boundary over the corridor is probably similar to kicking a behind instead of a goal, it's never your intention. When you get the ball at half back you're always looking to go the quickest way to goals eg. the Rich to Zorko to Linc ball chain from a few weeks back.

I remember one piece of play when Daniher got the footy and looked inboard on the weekend. Pulled off a ripping kick to someone in the corridor.

The issue is we're not a hard running team. The opposition consistently runs an extra 5% harder than us. So we get pressured into slowing the game down or kicking to a pack. We also don't have a lot of great kicks.

A gameplan isn't going to make Lyons or Birchall more fit. It's going to come with a change in personnel which we've been trying to do

I'm not knocking the gameplan at all given our personnel. What I'm querying is why we don't try to get good players who are out of the game into it when we're obviously going to lose and have nothing to lose by trying.

 

[T Rick]

David Noble and Chris Fagan on AFL 360 last night >

Thanks for posting Jason mp - I really appreciate it when others can do this!

 

[jackess]

I'm not knocking the gameplan at all given our personnel. What I'm querying is why we don't try to get good players who are out of the game into it when we're obviously going to lose and have nothing to lose by trying.

It is possible to turn around a game without changing you're gameplan eg. Melbourne against us

I don't think many teams make significant changes to turn a game around.

We have some times eg. Throwing Robbo on the ball against North when they were beating us in contested footy

 

[SizeMatters]

I agree that Daniher (can't tackle unless its a run down) and Cameron haven't been great defensively (we really miss Hippy for that as he would run all day), I'm not sure the blame can be placed with them, our 2 games where we have looked really poor St Kilda and Hawks we only had 43 and 40 inside 50s so the ball wasn't getting down there. Interestingly we also had 15 tackles inside 50 compared to the Hawks 11 and we only had 7 when we beat Geelong by 44, 16 against the crows, 11 against the Saints.

Tackles is one measure. Pressure acts is the other main measure. More importantly it's having the go to chase when you don't get that tackle, to gut run to cover a potential opposition outlet from their D50. Half that s**t doesn't get told in stat's. We don't have that in us at the moment. We also have no depth.

Inside 50s is about having confidence that your kick inside 50 will stay there. It would be s**t knowing any long kick inside 50 will just rebound out with limited pressure applied. Is on the minds of players.

 

[royboys4eva]

Fages has been a godsend for our club. Consider how bad we were prior to his arrival - and this is not bashing Leppa - he had a poor list and tried a game plan that didn't stand up with such a list. But the minute Fagan walked in we have become a much more professional club and Noble/Swann have also played their part as has Dany Daly.

Fagan has in his time at Brisbane made the Lions a destination club and not a club who lost plays every season. He has made us stronger every season and played an attractive style of game. Getting Hodge to the club was a masterstroke. In fact I think we need to look at getting Hodge more involved, but that might not be so easy as he appears to enjoy his TV role.

I always felt Noble's departure was going to be a massive loss. He filled so many roles and did them all exceptionally.

Up until this season we had a small injury list which enabled us to get the best 22 on the ground most weeks. That can't be undersold. It helps you build unity and continuity. This year we have lost Rayner (Pre Season) Berry for most of the season - Gardiner for most of the Season - Neale has missed games and never been 100% and looks utterly banged up. Hipwood is now gone for 12 months and Adams is now out for up to a month. Every club has injuries but it's hard to win a flag with so much quality either out or missing for most of the season. Look at the Demons injury list - barely a player out. It's a massive reason for their strong season.

My only concern with Chris Fagan is that he often sticks fat with players who are struggling - this could also have been a strength is previous seasons as he is showing belief in his players. But I look at team right now and wonder whether the likes of Grant Birchall

14

Grant Birchall

Age

36

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193cm

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89kg

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21.9

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12.6

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9.3

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5.8

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1.6

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MG

250.0

4star

D

13.3

3star

K

9.2

4star

HB

4.2

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.3

2star

MG

250.0

4star

D

14.0

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

6.4

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

0.6

3star

should be in the side? Perhaps we don't have the players to replace him? Ah Chee has been lucky to stay in the side. When your winning you can get away with no changes but when your playing like we have been for over a month I think you need to start making a statement.

The Game Plan has stood up more often than not and when we are at absolute best and ripping in and applying pressure all over the ground like we did against Richmond in last years Final and against the Cats this year we look fantastic. Unfortunately we can't sustain it and it's a demanding game plan and right now we look like a side who's extracted everything out of themselves and have very little left in the tank and add the injuries on top of that and suddenly we are 4/5 goals off our best.

No doubt the midfield is not quick and right now not spreading from contests. It's a big worry and I feel like outside of next year our window might shut quickly if we don't start getting some more pace into the side. We need to hit draft hard this year - we have neglected basically for 2 years.

We need to trust Fagan for what he has achieved so far and from his reaction/spray he gave the players the other day I think he is just as frustrated and perplexed. It's been a crazy two years with Covid and although we had the better off it - travel wise last year, this year we have had a very interrupted season and I think that's played it part.

 

[ForzaRoma]

^ good point. I would also like to add that Fagan isn't the only reason to our rise. Saying Fagan is the reason for our success would be insulting our physio team, our coaching staff and our support network. We rose to the top because Fagan was surrounded by brilliant people that made him become better. During the off season, we lost critical members in all aspects of our club and that has had an effect on us. Look at our rising injury list after our head physio guy left for Melbourne. Look at our on field performance after Daly moved up and Noble left. All of this has brought us down and I'm with the soft cap decrease, I'm actually unsure if we will be able to fix it. We're already struggling to pay the people at the club, so the thought of adding better people to our club seems unfathomable. I'm not sure as to where we are in our premiership window, but I'll know next year. And the club will too. And if we're in the same position or in an even worse position, changes would have to be made. It might not be Fagan, but rather those around him.

 

[dlanod]

Tackles is one measure. Pressure acts is the other main measure. More importantly it's having the go to chase when you don't get that tackle, to gut run to cover a potential opposition outlet from their D50. Half that sh*t doesn't get told in stat's. We don't have that in us at the moment. We also have no depth.

This is our main problem. If we don't win the ball, Neale and Lyons won't catch a cold let alone a ball carrier. Zorko can, and to a lesser degree McCluggage, but both are often running ahead of the ball for a handball receive into an attacking position because they're our better users of the ball leaving them very much out of position to chase. Robbo can apply pressure from his wing but generally the opposition will set up with their outlet player on the opposite side of the contest from him if he's playing close.

Against Geelong it was a combination of also facing a one-paced midfield a lot of the time and we weren't 100% focused on winning the ball, instead pressure being everything. That's hard to bring every week.

 

[jackess]

^ good point. I would also like to add that Fagan isn't the only reason to our rise. Saying Fagan is the reason for our success would be insulting our physio team, our coaching staff and our support network. We rose to the top because Fagan was surrounded by brilliant people that made him become better. During the off season, we lost critical members in all aspects of our club and that has had an effect on us. Look at our rising injury list after our head physio guy left for Melbourne. Look at our on field performance after Daly moved up and Noble left. All of this has brought us down and I'm with the soft cap decrease, I'm actually unsure if we will be able to fix it. We're already struggling to pay the people at the club, so the thought of adding better people to our club seems unfathomable. I'm not sure as to where we are in our premiership window, but I'll know next year. And the club will too. And if we're in the same position or in an even worse position, changes would have to be made. It might not be Fagan, but rather those around him.

C'mon you can't possible think things would be drastically different if we hadn't lost Griffiths and Noble

If we'd improved would you be saying good riddance?

 

[ForzaRoma]

C'mon you can't possible think things would be drastically different if we hadn't lost Griffiths and Noble

If we'd improved would you be saying good riddance?

Look at our injury list last year in comparison to this year's. I don't know what exactly happened, but it can't be a coincidence that our injury list started to rise the moment Griffiths left. And Noble is a top quality coach. You only have to look at what he has done to North to see that.

 

[Dalions]

Look at our injury list last year in comparison to this year's. I don't know what exactly happened, but it can't be a coincidence that our injury list started to rise the moment Griffiths left. And Noble is a top quality coach. You only have to look at what he has done to North to see that.

Short pre-season for the team as a whole could be a good reason for that.

 

[martinson]

It is possible to turn around a game without changing you're gameplan eg. Melbourne against us

I don't think many teams make significant changes to turn a game around.

We have some times eg. Throwing Robbo on the ball against North when they were beating us in contested footy

That's true ,it doesn't occur as often in the modern game as it used to.

Melbourne were within 3 or 4 goals of us . So sure ,stick to your guns. But when you're 8 down and going nowhere you've got nothing to lose by trying imo. I'm sure we had a good reason for not doing it . But to me a perfect opportunity to try a few things out.

 

[martinson]

There's been some good points made on this thread. Tbh we just look tired ,a give away being able to fire up when the heat went out of the games in the last 2 weeks.

We haven't been able to cover effectively for injuries , our gameplan relies on winning contested footy like many teams and we're a bit burnt out after 3 years . Lots of other reasons but overall we're just not quite good enough. I'm sure we'll make whatever list changes we can and go to the draft to improve , and try to get our injured players back on the park.

With a first home final which we could easily win we've got 4 weeks to get the guys up and going again and I'm sure we'll still be throwing everything at it this year.