Coach Fages and the coaching group

[StevoJenkins]

One thing we can guarantee in 2025: we WILL get found out. It happened anyway at stages this year and now 17 teams will be studying us for 6 months. If we're to continue to compete we will need to progress again. Our game will need to look different again in 9 or 10 months.

I thought about this yesterday once I got through the premiership feels. I think the side looks different next year due to our injuries this year. A lot of players who played in the side on Saturday may not get a crack at the start of next.

Guys like Answorth, Lester, Zorko, Daniher, Fort and McKenna have question marks over them due to the in's and "other factors".

Zorko probably makes way for Kiddy when he's ready, Doodee comes in for Lester, if Answorth doesn't hold his spot in the side after this finals series, he swaps with Kenna as the sub, Daniher either retires and gets replaced by a recruit or Smith, and Fort goes out for Omac. The selection panel also needs to figure out what the forward/mid rotation looks like with McCarthy, Lashcroft and Marshall coming in and Sharp, Joyce and Fort all banging on the door.

At this stage, I wouldn't say we bring in the same side at all next year, which hopefully means we're harder to read.

 

[martinson]

^^^ Get a load of this moron.

Ha ha.

That was just awesome Tom.

I think I would've thumbed up every one of those posts. They weren't unreasonable at the time.

Here's a little inside goss for you. Someone at the function was who has played under both Hardwick and Fagan was asked what's it like , what's the difference ?

Fagan he said was a people person who took the time to find out what made you tick , no matter who you were you knew he always had your back , trying to get the best out of you on a personal level and in your life.

Hardwick is more about tactics , statistics , gameday structures and plans , plenty of 'Plan B's' .

Interestingly he said both were fun to work under . He used the word fun. And both in his view very effective. And both with backup to coaches to pick up the slack where their expertise my have been lacking a little

It occurred to me that coaching's a team effort these days. You can't be a Fagan and a Hardwick at the same time. No one has the capacity to do all that .Your back up support is critical.

So when we were falling down Fagan's the fall guy but there are obviously things outside his control. Like you said in those posts I think it's likely we lost a lot of games in prior years and even early this year because we weren't holistically prepared. Add on injuries and not kicking straight. Something clicked into gear halfway through the year. We made changes to the team. We absolutely changed our tactics. Certain players played out of their skin this way.

Fagan has been supreme in getting great players to the club and keeping them there. This year the whole package of what you need to do to take the next step came to fruition.

 

[Tom14]

Ha ha.

That was just awesome Tom.

I think I would've thumbed up every one of those posts. They weren't unreasonable at the time.

Here's a little inside goss for you. Someone at the function was who has played under both Hardwick and Fagan was asked what's it like , what's the difference ?

Fagan he said was a people person who took the time to find out what made you tick , no matter who you were you knew he always had your back , trying to get the best out of you on a personal level and in your life.

Hardwick is more about tactics , statistics , gameday structures and plans , plenty of 'Plan B's' .

Interestingly he said both were fun to work under . He used the word fun. And both in his view very effective. And both with backup to coaches to pick up the slack where their expertise my have been lacking a little

It occurred to me that coaching's a team effort these days. You can't be a Fagan and a Hardwick at the same time. No one has the capacity to do all that .Your back up support is critical.

So when we were falling down Fagan's the fall guy but there are obviously things outside his control. Like you said in those posts I think it's likely we lost a lot of game in prior years and even early this year because we weren't holistically prepared. Add on injuries and not kicking straight. Something clicked into gear halfway through the year. We made changes to the team. We absolutely changed our tactics. Certain players played out of their skin this way.

Fagan has been supreme in getting great players to the club and keeping them there. This year the whole package of what you need to do to take the next step came to fruition.

It's kind of obvious, but I kinda just think we finally played our best football when it mattered?

Fish on the post-gf Roar Deal said something very interesting about a conversation he had with Andrew Wu from the Age, who is a pretty sharp footy mind I think and a Carlton fan.

Basically, Andrew thought all the way back to the first quarter and a half we showed of the entire season in opening round, the slick ball movement where we were taking our uncontested marks yes, but also forward handballing and dicing up with speed - and that's what he saw on grand final day.

It was a level that no one else could get to this year, not even Sydney at their best early in the season.

In the off-season Fages talked about adding more forward handball and run and carry to our game, and while I wouldn't say it was a huge part of our style it showed up big time in the prelim and to devastating effect in the grand final when we wanted to use it.

 

[martinson]

It's kind of obvious, but I kinda just think we finally played our best football when it mattered?

Fish on the post-gf Roar Deal said something very interesting about a conversation he had with Andrew Wu from the Age, who is a pretty sharp footy mind I think and a Carlton fan.

Basically, Andrew thought all the way back to the first quarter and a half we showed of the entire season in opening round, the slick ball movement where we were taking our uncontested marks yes, but also forward handballing and dicing up with speed - and that's what he saw on grand final day.

It was a level that no one else could get to this year, not even Sydney at their best early in the season.

In the off-season Fages talked about adding more forward handball and run and carry to our game, and while I wouldn't say it was a huge part of our style it showed up big time in the prelim and to devastating effect in the grand final when we wanted to use it.

Likewise in hindsight we knew Geelong and GWS were the teams we had to get over. It turns out we were very confident we could beat the Swans.

Sydney's clog up the backline and rebound with speed showed up big time on the MCG against a disciplined opponent who had the cattle to firstly hurt them on the way in and stop them on the way out. I reckon they gave up , not that it would've mattered.

 

[martinson]

You'll note the Swans gameplan worked for the first 10 minutes when we didn't kick straight and they got us twice n the way back.

After that it was pretty much one way traffic.

 

[Perrip]

Good chat on AFL Daily about Fages and Choc & Ashy.

"He's going to go down as one of the most important signings the club has made this centure." Josh Gabelich on Chris Fagan

 

[irel]

I'm still debating chucking up a jovial thread about some of the takes this season. I'm thinking I'll remove the poster's names and won't link to the posts if I do make it...

Ahh, "Name and Shame" thread. Good for the history. Revisiting when we are celebrating our second "Threepeat" era.
The Collingwood, GWS game threads would be a goldmine.

 

[KissKiss]

It occurred to me that coaching's a team effort these days. You can't be a Fagan and a Hardwick at the same time. No one has the capacity to do all that .Your back up support is critical.

This was always the critical part for me. We knew Fagan strengths were amazing, it was just did we have the all the support around him that we needed to help him get the best out of everyone. Turns out yes!!!

I also loved how Fagan and everyone else who has given a speech/interview in the last few days has been sure to mention this. Its not about one coach or player taking the full load. It takes a full club coming together to pull this off

 

[Bucking Beads]

I'm happy to admit it was looking like Fagan just couldn't get us over the line. I said some crazy things amongst the meltdowns I had. Never been happier to be wrong.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I still have no idea how we pulled off what we did on Saturday. Must be something to do with the Noble comment of our boys playing on emotions. Had so much on the line

Difficult thing is that we need to keep changing and evolving to keep at the top

 

[martinson]

Great point. We finally won a flag by changing and evolving and what will keep us at the top is to keep doing that.

That could involve some difficult decisions but we have the core there now plus the fringe players who have become core to keep contending for a while yet.

 

[dlanod]

Ha ha.

That was just awesome Tom.

I think I would've thumbed up every one of those posts. They weren't unreasonable at the time.

Here's a little inside goss for you. Someone at the function was who has played under both Hardwick and Fagan was asked what's it like , what's the difference ?

Fagan he said was a people person who took the time to find out what made you tick , no matter who you were you knew he always had your back , trying to get the best out of you on a personal level and in your life.

Hardwick is more about tactics , statistics , gameday structures and plans , plenty of 'Plan B's' .

Interestingly he said both were fun to work under . He used the word fun. And both in his view very effective. And both with backup to coaches to pick up the slack where their expertise my have been lacking a little

Tom must be happy for his brother!

 

[Gadzorks]

It's kind of obvious, but I kinda just think we finally played our best football when it mattered?

Fish on the post-gf Roar Deal said something very interesting about a conversation he had with Andrew Wu from the Age, who is a pretty sharp footy mind I think and a Carlton fan.

Basically, Andrew thought all the way back to the first quarter and a half we showed of the entire season in opening round, the slick ball movement where we were taking our uncontested marks yes, but also forward handballing and dicing up with speed - and that's what he saw on grand final day.

It was a level that no one else could get to this year, not even Sydney at their best early in the season.

In the off-season Fages talked about adding more forward handball and run and carry to our game, and while I wouldn't say it was a huge part of our style it showed up big time in the prelim and to devastating effect in the grand final when we wanted to use it.

This has made me wonder about Anna mears. In the lead up to the olympics she developed the stand still on the veledrome tactic that win her a gold medal.

She practised that tactic continuously for years in the lead up to the olympics BUT only ever used it once in competition to test if it would work. And it did.

She hid the tactic so she could win the medal.

Is it possible that we practiced that run and gun 7ncontested making capability in the pre season but did not want to advertise this capability so we too had a surprise medal winning tactic to unleash on the day? Which we unleashed at stages during games and finals when necessary?

Deliberately not playing that way at times might explain some of the poor performance - trying not to use a tactic could cause disorientation and what do we do now problems it certainly explains some of the awesome quarters we have played during the season.

It also seems very fagan to me.

 

[Nunez]

This has made me wonder about Anna mears. In the lead up to the olympics she developed the stand still on the veledrome tactic that win her a gold medal.

She practised that tactic continuously for years in the lead up to the olympics BUT only ever used it once in competition to test if it would work. And it did.

She hid the tactic so she could win the medal.

Is it possible that we practiced that run and gun 7ncontested making capability in the pre season but did not want to advertise this capability so we too had a surprise medal winning tactic to unleash on the day? Which we unleashed at stages during games and finals when necessary?

Deliberately not playing that way at times might explain some of the poor performance - trying not to use a tactic could cause disorientation and what do we do now problems it certainly explains some of the awesome quarters we have played during the season.

It also seems very fagan to me.

We definitely trained the run and gun in the preseason, so you may have a point!

 

[Darren Downunder]

We definitely trained the run and gun in the preseason, so you may have a point!

I know stuff all about football tactics but the first time I noticed it was against the Giants in the semi. At the time I thought it was just desperation, and we were lucky it paid off. But in hindsight it may have been our strategy for the finals. Going slow sometimes and then blasting through at others.

I suspect the Orange tsunami can’t be maintained for a whole finals game, but our version gives the players enough breaks so they can still finish strong. It was magnificent to watch on Saturday!

 

[Dalions]

I still have no idea how we pulled off what we did on Saturday. Must be something to do with the Noble comment of our boys playing on emotions. Had so much on the line

Difficult thing is that we need to keep changing and evolving to keep at the top

I think we evolved in the last 3 finals games we played.
Being able to win when playing different modes at different stages in each finals game is what won us those finals and the Grand Final to top it off.

 

[Section 5]

This video is after our 1st GWS encounter of the year.
Carro the only female on the panel comes to Fagans defense.

 

[alscotoz2]

This video is after our 1st GWS encounter of the year.
Carro the only female on the panel comes to Fagans defense.

Lloyd is such a bitter, irrelevant twat.

 

[beatnik]

Great point. We finally won a flag by changing and evolving and what will keep us at the top is to keep doing that.

That could involve some difficult decisions but we have the core there now plus the fringe players who have become core to keep contending for a while yet.

That’s Fagan’s core message…learn the lesson and apply the learning

 

[Daniel_Rich]

This video is after our 1st GWS encounter of the year.
Carro the only female on the panel comes to Fagans defense.

Caro tipped us to win the Grand Final FWIW.

Personally, I don't mind Lloyd. He might still have a chip on his shoulder about the Lions, but he tends to only say things he actually believes are true and generally puts his hand up when he's wrong.

Cornes just says whatever will get clicks that week.

King and Hutchison are the two who have been consistently anti-Fagan and will now have to eat crow.

 

[lionraven]

I personally prefer a man manager style coach in the vein of Fagan over a tactical genius type operator ala Hardwick. I also like a C Scott style of making a gamestyle to maximise what you have rather than a Lyons style of having a set style and recruiting players than can play that way.

I think leaving tactics to your line coaches in a more committee like style lets you shuffle up your gameplay every year by getting fresh ideas from multiple coaches. You can easily change up line coaches etc and get new ideas or simply reshuffle like they did 2 years ago with the forwards and back coaches.

Having a man manager head coach lets them get the most out of your stock and make sure they try and execute. No point having a tactically gifted head coach if the players dont have the heart to play for you/are only playing for a paycheck. I look at people like Voss and Leppa; I have no doubt they are brilliant football minds, but I wonder if I was a player would I personally want to play my best for them out of a sense of pride and family connection or would I play out of fear/awe? I think the former gets the better results than the latter. If you play with fear you easily get back into your shell when things go wrong/you lose resillience. If you play for pride/family then that builds resillience.

 

[notliondown]

This.

Could not put it better if you used a thousand words.

 

[scoman]

Do we think we are a good chance to add Dew full time next year?

I hope so.

 

[Nunez]

Do we think we are a good chance to add Dew full time next year?

I hope so.

I think the Lions are all in on #DoTheDew. Think both the club and Stewy are very happy with their decision to work together.

 

[ice444]

Do we think we are a good chance to add Dew full time next year?

I hope so.

Give him whatever he wants - since he arrived we went 13-2 and are now premiers.