Failed pie trades.....

[rotten pie]

It's that time again, another meat market over and another player left on the sidelines after requesting a trade to Pie Nest.

Whilst it was nice to see the club finally get a big bodied ruckman (Jolly), the first real dinosaur since Monkey, and a bloody good ruckman -

Why is it that Collingwood can never complete trades?

I have no idea.

Some say that it's that Collingwood overrates it's players.

Some say that other teams just refuse to trade with Collingwood or expect a "Collingwood Tax".

Whatever it is, for me, it's always frustrating to see a player ask to come to the club, want to play for the club but just can't get to the club.

Nick Stevens is the obvious example.

I feel for Luke Ball, a player left with a coach that wouldn't play him and now it seems doesn't want him, kind of like Tyson Goldsack, a player who just can't seem to get any consistancy with games yet the club refuse to trade him.

I just hope we don't see Goldsack in the delisted coloum in 12 months time.

Anyway-

What has been your most favourite/loathed trade bungle Collingwood has produced, and tell us what you think that player would have brought to the team of the time:

My fav will always be the Lockett/Winmar stuff up.

We would have had the Best Full forward to ever play the game (i'm not old enough to remember Nutts) the most goals kicked would have been broken by a Collingwood player instead of against, a fresh 100 goal season- Just to take the shine of BT and who knows what silverware.

Plus- to go with the Mids of the time ie: Buckley, Williams, Russell, Francis, McGuane - we would have had one of the best Aboriginals to ever play the game, not to mention avoided that ugly jumper lifting incident at Vic Park.

All this lost thanks to Wayne Richardson and his HACK OF A SON MARK.

 

[hellfire]

We got Jolly. That was our number 1 target. He is a massive name.

End of story.

 

[Rohan25]

Why is it that Collingwood can never complete trades?

We completed a pretty damn good one on Wednesday. I for one was thrilled with it.

On the whole, I think clubs genuinely fear doing anything that may give us a leg up. The other night on SEN Mark Fine was saying that the treatment dished out to Collingwood by other clubs during trade week is shameful, and that Collingwood always start from 2 lengths behind in negotiations with other clubs. This was shown today. Asking for Nathan Brown was ridiculous, and every other club including St. Kilda would have rejected that same deal.

I believe that if we had gone to Carlton with Pick 7 today for Fevola, they still would have rejected it, and accepted an inferior deal from Brisbane, because they are terrified of the consequences of assisting in a Collingwood premiership.

We are right in front of a premiership window that may well be open for quite a few years. West Coast had just been eliminated by Collingwood in a final when Judd walked. The last thing they wanted to do was hand over their captain to us, and widen the gap, they would have bent us over in trade negotiations if Judd had named Collingwood. Sending him to a mediocre side like Carlton was far more palatable to them. Likewise, the Saints don't want to have a fired up Luke Ball playing for Collingwood against St. Kilda in a grand final next year. Clubs reluctance to deal with us may ease when we slide down the ladder again.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Reckon trades are an overrated way of building a team anyway, with only a few very rare exceptions. In the last five years the only trade I can think of that GENUINELY significantly improved a team was Judd to Carlton - and to do that they had to give up pick 3 and Josh Kennedy, which will prove closer to even that was thought at the time in years to come, and was very weird circumstances anyway.

I think talking about stuff that happened in the early 90s and before is pretty pointless. It's a completely different board, football department and the AFL is a completely different beast now.

What "massive trades", Judd aside, have actually worked for the clubs involved that received the established player in recent times. Most clubs end up overpaying. We don't do that, and I think it partially explains why we haven't spent much time down the bottom in recent times.

That said, I'm a bit disappointed that we didn't get Ball across, but if the choice was not to do it, or to pay too much, then we've made the right choice.

 

[rotten pie]

^^^^^ Thank you for your insight, much appreciated. And i agree with you on Joshy k, he will be a gun CHF in a season or two and how ironic he was exactly what Carltank needed all year, a CHF to give Fev a chop out.

Classic!!!

 

[Jabso]

It's that time again, another meat market over and another player left on the sidelines after requesting a trade to Pie Nest.

Whilst it was nice to see the club finally get a big bodied ruckman (Jolly), the first real dinosaur since Monkey, and a bloody good ruckman -

Why is it that Collingwood can never complete trades?

I have no idea.

Some say that it's that Collingwood overrates it's players.

Some say that other teams just refuse to trade with Collingwood or expect a "Collingwood Tax".

Whatever it is, for me, it's always frustrating to see a player ask to come to the club, want to play for the club but just can't get to the club.

Nick Stevens is the obvious example.

I feel for Luke Ball, a player left with a coach that wouldn't play him and now it seems doesn't want him, kind of like Tyson Goldsack, a player who just can't seem to get any consistancy with games yet the club refuse to trade him.

I just hope we don't see Goldsack in the delisted coloum in 12 months time.

Anyway-

What has been your most favourite/loathed trade bungle Collingwood has produced, and tell us what you think that player would have brought to the team of the time:

My fav will always be the Lockett/Winmar stuff up.

We would have had the Best Full forward to ever play the game (i'm not old enough to remember Nutts) the most goals kicked would have been broken by a Collingwood player instead of against, a fresh 100 goal season- Just to take the shine of BT and who knows what silverware.

Plus- to go with the Mids of the time ie: Buckley, Williams, Russell, Francis, McGuane - we would have had one of the best Aboriginals to ever play the game, not to mention avoided that ugly jumper lifting incident at Vic Park.

All this lost thanks to Wayne Richardson and his HACK OF A SON MARK.

Speaking of Buckley didn't we get him in a trade?

Regardless trades that long ago are irrelevant.

There are at least 2 sides to every trade failure the only names that we were close to getting realistically and that we didn't get in the past have been Gehrig and Nick Stevens. Not sure what happened with Gehrig but with Nick Stevens it came down to us not rating Stevens highly enough compared to what Port wanted (i.e. Didak or Presti and a first round).

 

[hellfire]

Reckon trades are an overrated way of building a team anyway, with only a few very rare exceptions. In the last five years the only trade I can think of that GENUINELY significantly improved a team was Judd to Carlton - and to do that they had to give up pick 3 and Josh Kennedy, which will prove closer to even that was thought at the time in years to come, and was very weird circumstances anyway.

I think talking about stuff that happened in the early 90s and before is pretty pointless. It's a completely different board, football department and the AFL is a completely different beast now.

What "massive trades", Judd aside, have actually worked for the clubs involved that received the established player in recent times. Most clubs end up overpaying. We don't do that, and I think it partially explains why we haven't spent much time down the bottom in recent times.

That said, I'm a bit disappointed that we didn't get Ball across, but if the choice was not to do it, or to pay too much, then we've made the right choice.

Agreed on really big trades.

But trades like Ottens to Geelong, Stenglein and Chick to West Coast, Davis to Sydney, Michael to Brisbane all helped their sides win flags by plugging some holes. And whilst the Saints didn't win the flag, guys like Schneider, King, Dempster and Gardiner were all trades that helped them out a lot.

 

[smiddaz123]

Speaking of Buckley didn't we get him in a trade?

Regardless trades that long ago are irrelevant.

There are at least 2 sides to every trade failure the only names that we were close to getting realistically and that we didn't get in the past have been Gehrig and Nick Stevens. Not sure what happened with Gehrig but with Nick Stevens it came down to us not rating Stevens highly enough compared to what Port wanted (i.e. Didak or Presti and a first round).

I heard Port also offered Richard Cole as a potential player to be involved as well. Is there any truth there?

 

[Jabso]

I heard Port also offered Richard Cole as a potential player to be involved as well. Is there any truth there?

Don't know. However at the time Cole was a highish draft pick with his whole career in front of him just completed a very solid season so I would have thought they valued him as highly as Didak at the end of 2003.

Our 2003 list was shocking for trade bait. Underneath our best 25 or so we had about 10 blokes untried and a few dead wood players. Even in our best 25 we had players that were too old or unattractive propositions for other clubs like Kinnear, Walker, Lokan etc. We had a very thin list, and the only promising youngsters getting games were Didak, Cole, J.Cloke and Lonie (perhaps R. Shaw too?).

 

[Pie eyed]

It's that time again, another meat market over and another player left on the sidelines after requesting a trade to Pie Nest.

Whilst it was nice to see the club finally get a big bodied ruckman (Jolly), the first real dinosaur since Monkey, and a bloody good ruckman -

Why is it that Collingwood can never complete trades?

I have no idea.

Some say that it's that Collingwood overrates it's players.

Some say that other teams just refuse to trade with Collingwood or expect a "Collingwood Tax".

Whatever it is, for me, it's always frustrating to see a player ask to come to the club, want to play for the club but just can't get to the club.

Nick Stevens is the obvious example.

I feel for Luke Ball, a player left with a coach that wouldn't play him and now it seems doesn't want him, kind of like Tyson Goldsack, a player who just can't seem to get any consistancy with games yet the club refuse to trade him.

I just hope we don't see Goldsack in the delisted coloum in 12 months time.

Anyway-

What has been your most favourite/loathed trade bungle Collingwood has produced, and tell us what you think that player would have brought to the team of the time:

My fav will always be the Lockett/Winmar stuff up.

We would have had the Best Full forward to ever play the game (i'm not old enough to remember Nutts) the most goals kicked would have been broken by a Collingwood player instead of against, a fresh 100 goal season- Just to take the shine of BT and who knows what silverware.

Plus- to go with the Mids of the time ie: Buckley, Williams, Russell, Francis, McGuane - we would have had one of the best Aboriginals to ever play the game, not to mention avoided that ugly jumper lifting incident at Vic Park.

All this lost thanks to Wayne Richardson and his HACK OF A SON MARK.

So is this really about why we missed Ball or about whether or not Lockett would have broken his leg 2 games after he joined the Pies, if it actually eventuated?

We got Jolly............
We really needed a Ruckman and we go one, who is in the top 5, realtively cheap.
There is a very good chance we will get Ball in the ND as well.

Even though I would have taken Fev, it's looking like we were lucky not to get him now. Besides for me giving up one of our decent players would shit me just as much as Fev going to us would shit them.


Two weeks ago we had a top 4 side, today we have a better side and lost nothing.

Seems ok to me.

 

[Jabso]

Agreed on really big trades.

But trades like Ottens to Geelong, Stenglein and Chick to West Coast, Davis to Sydney, Michael to Brisbane all helped their sides win flags by plugging some holes. And whilst the Saints didn't win the flag, guys like Schneider, King, Dempster and Gardiner were all trades that helped them out a lot.

and in 2002 if we had won the flag people would be talking in the same light about our trades for Molloy, Steinfort, Freeborn, Clement, B.Holland (although he didn't feature in 02), McKee, Licuria.

We've gone down that exact route before.

 

[Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite]

Good thread

FWIW, the Jolly trade was a good one, and hate to say it, but I actually thought Ball was worth no more than pick #25 so you probably did well not offering any more. In saying that though, it's still fun to laugh at yas for continuing to fail to seal the deal most of the time

 

[Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite]

Come back when you win a premiership

 

[Rohan25]

Come back where, to our board?

 

[collingwill]

Come back when you win a premiership

we may need your help with cheating the salary cap 1st and any tanking advice would be apreciated. opps, then again we dont do that...

 

[Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite]

Come back where, to our board?

Lol the post above mine was deleted

we may need your help with cheating the salary cap 1st and any tanking advice would be apreciated. opps, then again we dont do that...

*cough*Thomas & Pendlebury*cough*

 

[Jabso]

Come back when you win a premiership

We've won a few of them can we come back now?

 

[bradrowe#32]

What's the deal with Winmar. I don't recall us ever chasing him.

 

[magpiewarrior]

What's the deal with Winmar. I don't recall us ever chasing him.

Just one more name linked to us at contract negotiation time, never a real chance, just ask Nicky himself.

 

[mattys123]

Lol the post above mine was deleted



*cough*Thomas & Pendlebury*cough*

Umm, we finished 2 games clear in 2nd last spot, so we would have got Thomas anyway.

We did tank to get Pendlebury, I will grant you that.

Though, 4 years compared to 1 seems a little out of whack to me.

 

[KissStephanie]

Nick Stevens is the obvious example.

Does that mean that you were actually in favour of Port Adelaide's one and only offer of Alan Didak for Nick Stevens, and take it or leave it? I certainly wasn't, and it has since been proved correct of course. Not only has Didak been a better player, but he is four years younger. How anybody could possibly criticise the Nick Stevens-Alan Didak trade is beyond me.

I just hope we don't see Goldsack in the delisted coloum in 12 months time.

Collingwood offered Goldsack and pick #30 and St.Kilda rejected it.

My fav will always be the Lockett/Winmar stuff up.

Why is that your favourite? I heard Wayne Richardson on the radio about six weeks ago again mention why Collingwood did not recruit Lockett at the time, and he still believes it was the right decision. Collingwood could not afford him, and when Eddie McGuire took over from Kevin Rose, Collingwood's finances were in a terrible state. It would have been worse.

The board instead decided to stick with Saverio Rocca as the full forward because he was cheaper, and he kicked 95 goals. They also had their eye on Anthony Roca at the time, and there was no way that Lockett and two Rocca's could all function in the same forward line. Nicky Winmar was also too expensive, but he wasn't close to leaving St.Kilda.