Fair Trial For Hicks?

Rorys458

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Independent legal observer says Hicks will probably not get a fair trial from a military commission.

Government says bad luck.

So much for a fair trial being an instrinsic part of any democracy and the rule of law.
 

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funkyfreo

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#5
I'd certainly have felt more comfortable knowing he was free in the general public had he not been at that camp for this long. Even if found innocent he will struggle to re-adjust to life in the normal world.

If he is so guilty, then why not have a reasonable trial. Why give us lefties a chance to whinge about an unfair trial if it is so obvious a fair trial would find him guilty.

He is no national hero - he just deserves a fair trial.
 

Goldenblue

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#7
Yes, I don't expect Howard's and Co puppet strings being pulled during an election by the US. Howard does not wan't to be seen as weak during the campaign. But when he wins the election, expect the US arsekissing to happen all over again.
 

Fire

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#8
Has he actually broken a law? John Howard said as much when he claimed that Australia didnt have the laws to prosicute him (read: he is innocent?). Perhaps the US cant find him guilty of anything either so a fair trial would only look bad for everyone else.

Anyway, Guilty or not he deserves nothing less than a fair trial. Thats the one thing anyone deserves.
 

Adrian Shelton

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#10
IMO a fair trial for Hicks would be to let him start running before the firing squad opens up(probably could have done that when they sprung him and no one would have been any the wiser)
 

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Tim56

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#12
The problem is, you people equate a fair trial with being found innocent. There is overwhelming evidence against him, and when he is found guilty I can assure that you will be up here bleating, whether you have looked at that evidence or not.
 

scmods

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#13
Appleyard said:
One of the great things about our part of the world is that we're not ruled by the Taliban.

So why act like them?
That's the type of world Hicks wants to live in, so he shouldn't have any complaints about it.
 

bunsen burner

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#14
Dippers Donuts said:
Another ******** weak effort from Ruddock and co.

So much for Howards and Downers sudden meek interest before the election.

Gutless.
What do you want them to do?

We bring him back he goes scott free without a trial. So the choices are/were, bring him home and he doesn't even go to trial, or leave him in the hands of the US for a while. No political advantage in the govt bringing him back before the election.

He's been there about 2-3 years now which I calculate to be round about just. We don't definitely know if he's guilty, but from the evidence it seems he was fighting against our ally. Means he is a traitor. He must get some mitigation because he started fighting with the Taliban before we got involved.

I'd be happy to request the US release him into our custody and let him go free any time now.
 

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#15
Tim56 said:
The problem is, you people equate a fair trial with being found innocent. There is overwhelming evidence against him, and when he is found guilty I can assure that you will be up here bleating, whether you have looked at that evidence or not.
Perhaps and if he was planning to destroy Australia, hang draw and quarter him. But he was perhaps tortured and has admited nothing of any worth. What I don't get he has been charged with treason like charges but hasn't killed or planned to kill any Australians. Many 'adventurer's' have backed international issues, such as the international brigades in Spain but have never been accused of treason. Australia, unlike howard, must protect as much as possible Australian rights, no matter how misguided they are.
 

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#16
Qsaint said:
Australia, unlike howard, must protect as much as possible Australian rights, no matter how misguided they are.
No, not really. When Australian drug traffickers are caught in Asia we usually only step in when the death penalty is brought out or request their release after they have served a fair bit of jail time OS. Same treatment for Hicks. He is in the US's hands and there is no need to ask for his release until he has served what we think is just. I wouldn't be upset if he were released now, but wouldn't have been happy if the Govt were campaigning for his release much earlier than now. At the end of the day he allegedly committed a crime out of our jurisdiction. Bad luck.
 

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#18
bunsen burner said:
No, not really. When Australian drug traffickers are caught in Asia we usually only step in when the death penalty is brought out or request their release after they have served a fair bit of jail time OS. Same treatment for Hicks. He is in the US's hands and there is no need to ask for his release until he has served what we think is just. I wouldn't be upset if he were released now, but wouldn't have been happy if the Govt were campaigning for his release much earlier than now. At the end of the day he allegedly committed a crime out of our jurisdiction. Bad luck.
If you are caught in Thailand or Singapore with drugs, Yes fry. That is their law handed down to citizens or anyone else. But this guy was in a sovereign country whose religious and political laws he did not cross. Suddenly the US arrives and he is broken laws that did not exist a day or two before. By the way Hicks is not a US citizen.
 

Fire

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#19
I dont know a lot of facts aout Hicks allegations. From what I have heard there didnt seem to be a lot of evedance for anything.

What mounted evedance is there?
 

bunsen burner

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#20
Qsaint said:
If you are caught in Thailand or Singapore with drugs, Yes fry. That is their law handed down to citizens or anyone else. But this guy was in a sovereign country whose religious and political laws he did not cross. Suddenly the US arrives and he is broken laws that did not exist a day or two before. By the way Hicks is not a US citizen.
That's from a US point of view. I don't see they really have a reason to keep him, but from Australian point of view he has somewhat committed treason. Bringing him back early would be a mockery as we wouldn't be able to charge him with anything. So why not leave him in the hands of the US for a few years and let him think over which country his allegiance is to?

Most Australians wouldn't be happy if a person who fought for our enemy was allowed to come back to our country without having to answer his actions. I have no problems with the govt having left him with the US for a few years. No sympathy from me.
 

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#22
Tim56 said:
The problem is, you people equate a fair trial with being found innocent. There is overwhelming evidence against him, and when he is found guilty I can assure that you will be up here bleating, whether you have looked at that evidence or not.
What is this overwhelming evidence?

I equate a fair trial as a trial conducted either under Australian law or an international tribunal. A legal body with independence; not a US military tribunal. Sounds really independent huh?

And what's he been charged with? Attempted murder - attempted in that he may have been thinking about killing US troops in Afghanistan??!! There's no "evidence" he actually harmed anyone.

Oh yeah, he's also been charged with guarding a taliban tank!

Lock him up and throw away the key!!
 

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#23
Dippers Donuts said:
What is this overwhelming evidence?

I equate a fair trial as a trial conducted either under Australian law or an international tribunal. A legal body with independence; not a US military tribunal. Sounds really independent huh?

And what's he been charged with? Attempted murder - attempted in that he may have been thinking about killing US troops in Afghanistan??!! There's no "evidence" he actually harmed anyone.

Oh yeah, he's also been charged with guarding a taliban tank!

Lock him up and throw away the key!!
So he hasn't really done anything wrong that should warrant the US being able to punish him (all though he's already being punished) and he will most likely face a US military kangaroo court. Seems dodgy on the surface (and it is), but from an Australian point of view it's either this or let him go without having to explain why he was fighting for our enemy. I'd rather him suffer the unjust Americans rather than get let off scott free for most likely being a traitor.
 

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#24
bunsen burner said:
So he hasn't really done anything wrong that should warrant the US being able to punish him (all though he's already being punished) and he will most likely face a US military kangaroo court. Seems dodgy on the surface (and it is), but from an Australian point of view it's either this or let him go without having to explain why he was fighting for our enemy. I'd rather him suffer the unjust Americans rather than get let off scott free for most likely being a traitor.
Look, for all anyone knows he may genuinely be guilty of serious crimes.

Personally I doubt that as the yanks and Howard and co would have told the world so at some stage over the last three years to justify his incarceration.

He's in all probability a lost soul who got caught up in something be it for the romance of it all or perhaps he did feel a genuine empathy for the taliban and co. Maybe he just got sucked in? Who knows?

Does that justify 3 years in a ********hole in cuba? I don't think so. Either bring him home and try him or put in front of an international tribunal and do the same. Either way it shouldn't take three years as there surely wouldn't be a mountain of evidence one way or the other.
 
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