Fair work commission ruling on Sunday penalty rates

[Admiral Byng]

Who are the 'we'? Projection much.

I'd prefer a system where youth and very low skilled workers aren't priced out of jobs.

Let the market determine wages I say!

People like me. Why should I change to suit your ideology when I like things the way they were? Why do you even live in Australia if you don't like it? Why do you want to change to letting the market decide things, when the market is imperfect and delivers sub-optimal results? Why don't you just leave for another country more in tune with your beliefs?

 

[Scotland]

Does anyone support wage ceilings to prevent rapid wage inflation?

If market forces are the devil why do we allow them to place upward pressure on wages but not downward?

 

[CakeEater]

Does anyone support wage ceilings to prevent rapid wage inflation?

If market forces are the devil why do we allow them to place upward pressure on wages but not downward?

Theoretically - there are wage ceilings in place to prevent rapid wage inflation the negotiated wage increases common under Awards & EA's.

 

[Scotland]

Theoretically - there are wage ceilings in place to prevent rapid wage inflation the negotiated wage increases common under Awards & EA's.

Theoretically, yes. In practice no one is going to stay on EBA/Award wages when the getting is good.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Does anyone support wage ceilings to prevent rapid wage inflation?

If market forces are the devil why do we allow them to place upward pressure on wages but not downward?

Absolutely there should be a wage limit. 1 million a year, beyond this tex at 99.95% percent

 

[flashmanvc]

Yes it does. People dont go to cafes on a sunday because many are not open and the few that are open are ridiculously overcrowded which stops people from going especially people with young children.

Can't agree with that. Even here in the country there is always a cafe open on Sunday and there would have to be even more in the cities.

On SGP511 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Strangely enough, the changes don't apply to those working under the Restaurant Industry Award--but they do apply to those on the Cafe and Hospitality Awards.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

You want low-income earners in hospitality and retail to be paid properly? Raise the minimum wage. Stop this ridiculous bullshit of paying people double often because they were lucky enough to have their availability line up with some good days of the week.

The overwhelming majority of affected workers are young adults and students who don't just choose to work on Sunday, but they have to work on Sunday because that's what their university or placement or graduate job availabilities allow. They are not sacrificing anything. They do not deserve to be paid anymore than the other poor young adults and students who don't get to drink from the golden fountain of penalty rates.

Weekend penalty rates are an archaic, terribly unfair means to an end which need to be abolished. Good to see we're taking a step in the right direction.

Nice to see all of the warriors in this thread up in arms over Sunday penalty rates being cut to 175% of the standard rate clearly not giving a * about the poor sods who have to work on Monday. Don't kid yourselves, you're really not that passionate about social justice.

 

[Maggie5]

There is a certain irony in the FWC actively reducing wages at a time when low wages growth is a major problem for our economy. And it's particularly rich that a key reason given for the decision is to encourage employment in the hospitality industry, which is already our star performer in employment growth.

Crikey's Bernard Keane and Glenn Dyer summarised it thus: "Today the Fair Work Commission, reflecting three years of Coalition government appointments to the industrial relations body, decided that Sunday penalty rates are too high for retail and hospitality workers and should be wound back. The hospitality sector, despite evidently being hampered by having to pay its workers too much, has grown its employment by 11.4 per cent since 2011, far outstripping the overall workforce, which grew by just 6.8 per cent. But at least the commission has partially solved the problem of major retailer franchisees like 7-Eleven, Caltex, Domino's and others systematically underpaying their workers — now they don't have to pay them as much in the first place."

Sums it up for me.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

You want low-income earners in hospitality and retail to be paid properly? Raise the minimum wage. Stop this ridiculous bullshit of paying people double often because they were lucky enough to have their availability line up with some good days of the week.

Couldnae agree more

The overwhelming majority of affected workers are young adults and students who don't just choose to work on Sunday, but they have to work on Sunday because that's what their university or placement or graduate job availabilities allow. They are not sacrificing anything. They do not deserve to be paid anymore than the other poor young adults and students who don't get to drink from the golden fountain of penalty rates.

Oh FFS, is if being a student isn't tough enough these days (unless mummy and daddy are minted). So you don't think that any other retail/hospitality workers do shifts on the weekend to boost their meagre income?

Weekend penalty rates are an archaic, terribly unfair means to an end which need to be abolished. Good to see we're taking a step in the right direction.

Do ya think there's gonna be an increase in the min wage? Must be a gas livin' in la-la-land

Nice to see all of the warriors in this thread up in arms over Sunday penalty rates being cut to 175% of the standard rate clearly not giving a **** about the poor sods who have to work on Monday. Don't kid yourselves, you're really not that passionate about social justice.

Don't be a bozo, most decrying the loss of penalty rates have a firmer grasp on reality. These people have such shithouse conditions for various reasons, the SDA being a major one.

You're shooting blanks

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Oh FFS, is if being a student isn't tough enough these days (unless mummy and daddy are minted).

It's even tougher for students who don't get penalty rates at all. Crying poor about getting 175% instead of 200% is absolutely laughable. In fact, as a student who worked without weekend penalty rates, it's ******* hysterical.

So you don't think that any other retail/hospitality workers do shifts on the weekend to boost their meagre income?

Read "overwhelming majority"

Do ya think there's gonna be an increase in the min wage? Must be a gas livin' in la-la-land

You're right, let's keep paying ridiculous money on Sundays and tell everybody to just get a Sunday shift if they want to be paid well. Sorta like telling people to just go and get a better paying job....

Don't be a bozo, most decrying the loss of penalty rates have a firmer grasp on reality. These people have such shithouse conditions for various reasons, the SDA being a major one.

You're shooting blanks

Are the conditions 200% worse on Sunday than on Monday? 200% worse than the poor kids who work in fast food have to endure? Hard to feel sorry for people who had it much, much better than me.

 

[Pie eyed]

Employers open on Weekends to make money.
Employees work on Weekends to make money.
Less money equals less people who will work on Weekends, which means employers will whinge about losing money.
Employers will ask to have the wages of people who do not work on weekends cut so they can keep their lifestyles.

The Liberal scum will assure you this is not the case despite 4 years of zero wage growth and skyrocketing cost of living.

I think they should be dragged into the streets like Mussolini.

 

[Pie eyed]

Hard to feel sorry for people who had it much, much better than me.

It's not about you...or me.
I laughed at your "grandpa statement" above. You sound like Ted Bullpit...."the chop riots of 62"
I bought a house decades ago, when a normal human could afford one. I have bought several in fact off the back of that.
It's about the next generation being financially enslaved by financial institutions and credit agencies because they cannot earn enough to live in a normal week.
I never had to strike or go without in my working life, but I cannot take any credit for that as I did'nt have to take part in the 100 year struggle for a 5 day week or a basic wage.
Hard won from these hard done by and struggling employers.

 

[kirsti]

Now this issued needed a plebiscite.

 

[Pie eyed]

I think we need a plebiscite on whether the Fair Work Commission should go to be replace by one which represents the worker not the employer.

 

[kwikfix]

Trent Hunter was supposed to be the human face of the thousands of weekend workers affected by the cut in Sunday penalty rates. Except he won't lose a cent, according to his employer.



http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...t-be-affected-by-changes-20170223-gujvvr.html

Mr Hunter, who is a "shoppies union" delegate and an ALP campaign volunteer, works for Coles in western Sydney.

The supermarket chain confirmed to Fairfax Media that none of its staff would be affected by the decision of the Fair Work Commission.
The pay of Coles staff is dictated by an enterprise bargaining agreement rather than the retail award reviewed by the commission.

"No Coles store team members will see any change in their pay, even if they work Sundays. Members are employed subject to an EBA," said a Coles spokesman.
The Coles EBA has been mired in controversy because, under a deal with the Shop, Distributive and Allied Employees' Association, some weekend workers were left worse off than had they remained on the award.

In echoes of the "Fake tradie" furore that hit the Coalition during the election, Mr Shorten introduced Mr Hunter as one of the "people who are directly affected in the hip pocket by this absolutely appalling decision" to cut Sunday rates.
He did not mention, or perhaps recall, that he had been pictured during the election campaign with Mr Hunter who was then a campaign volunteer for Labor's Emma Husar, who won the Penrith-based seat of Lindsay back from the Liberal Party.

On social media, Mr Hunter has referred to Ms Husar as his "greatest friend" and travelled to Canberra for her inaugural speech.

According to his Facebook page, Mr Hunter in November received the "Young Achiever Award" from the Shop, Distributive and Allied Employees' Association, known as the shoppies.

"I urge all workers to join the union," he posted.

During Mr Shorten's press conference, he said the Fair Work Commission's decision was a "disgrace".

"I rely on the penalty rates to make ends meet and to pay for my fuel, my rent and to pay for my food," he said.

"I am gutted. It is such a disgrace. I do not accept the decision as a retail worker. I urge all workers today, because it is a dark day for retail workers and hospitality workers, to stand up and fight back.
"I urge all workers to stand up, join your union and fight back so we can win back our penalty rates."

Fairfax Media has contacted Mr Hunter for comment and also contacted Ms Husar.

A spokesman for Mr Shorten said: "Hundreds of thousands of workers will be worse off because of cuts to penalty rates - that's a fact."

A Labor source said Mr Hunter believed Thursday's decision was going to be bad for him "either immediately or in the long term".

Shadow employment minister Brendan O'Connor later conceded on ABC radio: "Trent did get a little carried away, he was shocked by the decision."

But Mr O'Connor and the SDA indicated the 2011 Coles enterprise agreement was being reviewed by Fair Work and, if terminated, Mr Hunter would stand to lose his penalty rates under any new agreement based on the award.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

It's not about you...or me.
I laughed at your "grandpa statement" above. You sound like Ted Bullpit...."the chop riots of 62"
I bought a house decades ago, when a normal human could afford one. I have bought several in fact off the back of that.
It's about the next generation being financially enslaved by financial institutions and credit agencies because they cannot earn enough to live in a normal week.
I never had to strike or go without in my working life, but I cannot take any credit for that as I did'nt have to take part in the 100 year struggle for a 5 day week or a basic wage.
Hard won from these hard done by and struggling employers.

Actually, I'm two years out of university and into a full time job. I had to earn enough to live in a normal week while attending university and I had to do it all with no weekend penalty rates and the measly 5% loading they give you for working 1am through til 5am on late night. Believe me when I say I fully understand the struggle of living while studying with no help from the government and no help from parents.

And subsequently, I find it pretty frustrating to see such a campaign for weekend penalty rates when previously, the general public has failed to care about hospitality and retail workers make Monday through until Friday. Those people who don't work Sundays are pretty much invisible right now I guess. It sucks that the biggest grassroots campaign for better wages for some of the lowest paid workers in that bracket is aimed directly at the upper echelon of that group who has it the best.

 

[GreyCrow]

Trent Hunter was supposed to be the human face of the thousands of weekend workers affected by the cut in Sunday penalty rates. Except he won't lose a cent, according to his employer.



http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...t-be-affected-by-changes-20170223-gujvvr.html

Oh Dear

 

[Crankyhawk]

You want low-income earners in hospitality and retail to be paid properly? Raise the minimum wage. Stop this ridiculous bullshit of paying people double often because they were lucky enough to have their availability line up with some good days of the week.

The overwhelming majority of affected workers are young adults and students who don't just choose to work on Sunday, but they have to work on Sunday because that's what their university or placement or graduate job availabilities allow. They are not sacrificing anything. They do not deserve to be paid anymore than the other poor young adults and students who don't get to drink from the golden fountain of penalty rates.

Weekend penalty rates are an archaic, terribly unfair means to an end which need to be abolished. Good to see we're taking a step in the right direction.

Nice to see all of the warriors in this thread up in arms over Sunday penalty rates being cut to 175% of the standard rate clearly not giving a **** about the poor sods who have to work on Monday. Don't kid yourselves, you're really not that passionate about social justice.

The commission did leave open how transition to new arrangements would occur. Would people be up in arms with my original suggestion (instead of taking money away, just freeze current Sunday rates until other rates catch up via pay rise)?

 

[Crankyhawk]

Trent Hunter was supposed to be the human face of the thousands of weekend workers affected by the cut in Sunday penalty rates. Except he won't lose a cent, according to his employer.



http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...t-be-affected-by-changes-20170223-gujvvr.html

It is possible that mr hunter didn't realise he was covered under the separate EBA (I know when I worked at Myer I had no idea how my award was determined, I only would read the SDA bulletin in the staff room which had our rates displayed). Or is worried that the EBA will be thrown out (due to SDA) and then it affects him.

 

[GreyCrow]

It is possible that mr hunter didn't realise he was covered under the separate EBA (I know when I worked at Myer I had no idea how my award was determined, I only would read the SDA bulletin in the staff room which had our rates displayed). Or is worried that the EBA will be thrown out (due to SDA) and then it affects him.

If he wasn't a union rep, if he wasn't a Labor stooge then yes I would agree. But based on his background he would have checked

 

[aCunningPlan]

I don't think time and a half on Sunday like it is on Saturday is unfair, the weekend is the weekend unless we are saying Australia is a Christian country and Sunday is somehow more important than Saturday.

Raise the minimum wage to compensate any loss of income which will improve the conditions of all workers.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

It

What jobs are 9-5? Nearly all white collar workers do heaps of work at nights and on weekends and they do it all for zero pay. Not standard pay but zero.

Its Called being on a salary. You are expected to do quite a bit of overtime hours unpaid. There arent many 9-5 jobs where the employee leaves on the dot at 5.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

The supermarkets are immune to this as they come under an EBA. If anyone doesnt know what that entails basically wesfarmers negotiated the contract where therefore employees would forego penalty rates on the sunday for a higher base rate of pay. The same applies for public holidays so the coles and woolies workers wont feel the affect that much. Doesnt make the expulsion of penalty rates right however, completely out of touch with society are the FWC

 

[Contra Mundum]

Oh Dear

It's stupid but irrelevant - they should have checked with the 10k labour lawyers who are Labor members - everyone knows the SDA sold penalty rates down the river in Woolies years ago


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