Fairness

[TigerTank]

At the risk of agreeing with a certain prolific Bigfooty member, the current draw is essentially unfair.

Any draw which does not have every team playing each other twice, is obviously unbalanced.

I would not advocate a 30-round season because that would be too long for players and spectators (and don't get me started on getting rid of the finals, that has been discussed ad-nausium elsewhere).

But one thought that may partially offset the current unevenness would be to give points for Ansett cup (or whatever the pre-season comp is called this year) wins.

First, make the home-and-away season 23 games long.

At this stage - there would be seven teams that Geelong (for example) won't play twice.

How about designing the pre-season draw then so that Geelong is in the same half of the draw as the seven teams it does not play in the home-and-away season. Plan it so that this happens for every team.

Play the current four-groups-of-four round robin to decide the four pre-season cup semi-finalists, as now. A win in each of those three round robin games would be worth 2 points (1 for a draw).

The four semi-finalists then play for a further 2 points (1 for a draw). The round-robin and semi-final losers would be relegated to practice matches worth 0 points.

Finally, the two pre-season grand finalists would play off for four points, as well as the glory of winning the Ansett cup.

While this does not completely even up the draw it adds the following benefits:

* Pre-season games will be worth some points. Clubs that go at it half-hearted can rest players without losing too much, while those that play at full stretch get rewarded.

* Teams can potentially play any team (not every team) twice, if they make it all the way through.

* The Ansett Cup becomes worth more then just practice glory. The Ansett Cup grand finalist could potentially start the regular season with 12 points.

I don't claim this system is foolproof, just a reasonable compromise.

What do you think?


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TT - Obligatory bad-tempered Richmond supporter

 

[Darky]

At least you're thinking TT... but it confused the shit out of me.

The preseason comp takes up about 5 weeks. By adding an extra 3 weeks, the draw could be extended to 30 games. If 30 weeks sounds harsh on players, then how about a week's break after 12 and 24 rounds, which accounts for finals ending in week 36 (34 rounds plus 2 "off" weeks).
Of course a 36-week (early-March to late October) season sounds long, but with pre-season and finals it's 31 weeks at the moment, and thats without breaks for some clubs.
It would clash to some extent with cricket venues, but cricket can be played at Junction Oval, Punt Rd, etc during October.

It's hardly ideal, but it would mean the draw is even once and for all - otherwise the draw will never be even again until we are reduced to 12 or less clubs.

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Blue is the colour of healing - Music is the crystallised emotion - Flow with the Force

 

[Pessimistic]

Here's another thought:

The teams that ply each other once do it from rounds 8 to 15. They could award 6 points to the winner of each of these games to offset the difference

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

well ok alot of youze already know I am a big fan of the 30Round H&A season, I'm also a convert of Dan24's pet theory of lots of kudos to the so-called Minor Premier, followed by a short sharp and sweet knock-out finals tournament.

Here's my blueprint :

1) 30 Round Home and Away Season where everyone plays everyone else twice.

2) Scrap Ansett Cup and start H&A season proper in mid-February

3) Play mostly night and twilight games early in the seaon to counter the effects of the heat. Also consider Tasmanian and even NZ fixtures during this early part of the season as well.

4) Have two 'sabbatical' breaks, one after Round 11 and the other after Round 22 to give everyone a well-earned mid season holiday.

5) H&A season finishes in early October, to be followed by a 3week long finals series, culminating in the Grand Final played the first Saturday in November (ie the Sat before the Melbourne Cup)

6) Final series is a 3week straight knock out tournament. The top half of the draw is 1v8 and 4v5, the bottom half is 2v7 and 3v6.

7) Big-deal presentation ceremony given before the start of the 1v8 final for the 'Minor Premier" (re-named League Champion)in which the team receives a fat cheque and an impressive piece of silverware.

8) International Rules series played in last week of November and first week of December.

9) Pre-season traing for most clubs and players would start in early December.

10) No pre-season comp. at all. Informally organised Practice matches played during late December - January.

Its no big deal - In an ideal footy world this is what I would like to happen - but I ain't losing any sleep over this !

cheers

 

[Frodo]

BSA looks to have a good format. 30 rounds should be easy for players and good for supporters. In soccer they play 44 rounds and two cup competitions in a nine month season and most fans hate the three months of no action. I don't like the sabatical. I would get withdrwal symptoms with no footy for a weekend. In a 16 team league I also think it is unreasonable to have the strong possibility of a team with a losing resord after the 22 rounds making the finals. So a final 6 would seem better. Finaly something needs doing to stop clubs playing to lose games and win better draft picks in late season. It compromises the fairness of the competition. In particulaerly the rule giving an extra pick for low wins becomes an incentive which may cost another club a finals place.
Another anomaly is the club with good players but a big injury list. They finish lower than they would have with a fit list and get to strengthen their list further with higher draft picks.
Somehow a system is needed where playing for draft picks ends and the best draft picks go to the clubs with the weaker squads rather than where they finish on the ladder.
Any ideas?

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Frodo

Does throwing games to win draft picks really occur ?

I doubt it - here's an example

Lets go back to Round 22, 1995 and Collingwood was visiting Sydney.

Collingwood needed to win to get into the finals

Sydney needed to lose to get a priority draft pick (they went into this one on 7 wins)

It didn't go to script - Sydney came to play and ended up running away from the Pies to record a pretty convincing victory. The Swans certainly weren't interested in 'throwing a game' just to get a priority draft pick.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts - do you think it really goes on ?

I doubt it myself but would be interested in your thoughts ....

cheers

 

[CURVE]

BSA,

North threw the final against Essendon last season because they didn't want a week off.

Apparently they wanted to keep their tremendous momentum going...They did

 

[Stealth bomber]

There would be nothing wrong with the current system if it were used properly.

Straight up, previous year finalists play other finalists twice and previous year bottom 8 play the other bottom 8s twice. Crossover matches once.

If the AFL did it correctly, it would work fine and be eminently fair in my opinion.

But because of the "blockbuster" factor and money-grubbing politics, the AFL ignores this system and schedules Collingwood vs. Essendon twice even though one was 1st and the other was 15th. Likewise with any match involving the "big Victorian four" (Coll, Carl, Ess, Rich).

This is the underlying problem; the "blockbuster" matches are too prolific for the league that they couldn't stand the thought of Essendon playing Port Adelaide twice instead of Collingwood.

Strictly as a fan, I would prefer that the reigning finalists play the more difficult schedules. The AFL seems interested in league parity from top to bottom; that's one way to do it.

In the NFL, the reigning Super Bowl champion plays the most difficult schedule in the league the next season. Division winners all play each other.

Perhaps the time has come for the AFL to split into divisional play.

 

[dees01]

Surely it is just coincidence that Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond and Carlton always play each other twice!

 

[The invisible mullet]

I support a 30 round competition that does away with the Ansett Cup but retains the finals as the true test of champion status in the competition. One of my only concerns would be that the lists might be too short for such a season. Then again if we had 14 teams (or 15) it would be even easier to accomodate teams playing each other twice...

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel:
Frodo
Does throwing games to win draft picks really occur ?

I don't think that blatant game throwing goes on, the supporters would never allow it. And there is always the odd game that needs to be won to give the supporters some heart.
What I see happenning is this:-
The team is not going to make the 8 and they have injured players and players carrying injuries. The players carrying injuries are rested for the season along with good players who are rested for the odd games to allow rookies to get experience. The coach also experiments with playing players out of position and trying new tactics out.

I think that there is every reason to say that the coach is doing a good job in what he is doing. Blooding and developing rookies, letting players carrying injuries rest up for the next season and if he loses then he gets better draft picks.

But the fact is that the club is not putting out their best side and playing for the sole purpose of winning. This gives an advantage to any team playing against them from the time the club decides a final place is beyond them.

One way to alleviate this may be to give prize money dependent on place. If it was worth a $100K difference between 11th and 12th spot maybe the incentive to win may be re-addressed.

 

[Shinboners]

I'm not an advocate of the 30 round season (for various reasons discussed elsewhere), but if we were to have one, one way of helping players through the season would be to reduce the length of the game. So, instead of 20 minutes plus time on, the game could become 15 minutes plus time on, thus reducing the length of the game by 25%. Of course, enterance and membership fees would have to be adjusted accordingly.

 

[Pessimistic]

There are many systems which would formalise the evening out of fixtures over say a three year period. - it just needs the AFL to give up some 'flexibility' in getting blockbuster draws. You could even sanction some blockbuster draws (remember WCE - Freo and Poert v Adelaide are also included) but rotate all the others - hence a victorian teams interstate trips would even out over a few years - not that they are as 'hard' as they used to be)

 

[Aussie_Roo]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel:
well ok alot of youze already know I am a big fan of the 30Round H&A season, I'm also a convert of Dan24's pet theory of lots of kudos to the so-called Minor Premier, followed by a short sharp and sweet knock-out finals tournament.

Here's my blueprint :


5) H&A season finishes in early October, to be followed by a 3week long finals series, culminating in the Grand Final played the first Saturday in November (ie the Sat before the Melbourne Cup)


cheers

BSA,

Your blueprint was looking okay, until I noticed that you wanted the GF on Derby Day (the best racing day of the year !!!

 

[bomber0018]

Or, a much easier way would be to just keep everything the way it is.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Why not schedule the season over 40 weeks and stagger the breaks given to clubs. in the mid-season we could have eight teams playing and eight teams on a break for a week or a fortnight. That way at least there some footy to watch all the time. The season could start in January with strict regulations about match play(IE if it gets over 35 degrees then the game is postponed.) After all in British soccer games are postponed and if the poms can manage im sure so can we.