Farmers - No Thanks!

crocodileman

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Do we really need farmers? Are they costing the taxpayer more money than they are worth? I say yes, and I believe that these arguments are quite compelling.

As far as I'm concerned, they represent everything that is wrong with this country, and some!

Here's why they annoy me:-

1. They vote either Liberal, One Nation, National or Family First (except for those who are voting informal because they're illiterate!)

2. They breed intolerance and racial hatred through ignorance. Indeed, their racial hatred can be traced back to the earlier moments of European settlement and their attitudes to Aborigines and the resulting frontier violence.

3. They are conservative and resistant to change - this is from voting to religious values but has also invading farming practices whereby they continue to engage in practices that are unproductive, costly and environmentally damaging.

4. The whinge factor. Surely, I'm not the only one on this forum who nearly vomits when they here farmers complain about the effects of the drought (as if they are forced to remain on the land) only to turn and complain that when it does rain that it is either:-
(a) Too little, too late and not enough to save their crops; or
(b) Has caused widespread flooding and destroyed their grains, etc.

5. They are the biggest drain on our tax dollars and they have the audacity to whinge about Aborigines getting welfare benefits. If only Aborigines received half the inducements and benefits farmers' received, they may have something to complain about!

6. They are tax cheats - has anyone ever heard of a farmer actually declaring an income on a tax return?? If so, please notify the Guinness Book of Records!

7. Who else in this country gets interest free loans and subsidies on fuel?

I say, lets round these whinging, whining dogs up, put them all on Pitcairn Island (at taxpayer expense of course, in the true farming tradition!) and leave them to their own devices.

Who's up for a bit of rural resentment!
 

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funkyfreo

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#2
A bit harsh there I rekon.

I think Farmers are great, but certainly their representatives in public life DO seem to fit the bill of the above. I think it is a case of conservative farmers trying to tell us all what to do, and "normal" farmers just actually working hard and not getting involved.

I also quite enjoy eating, something that may be made more challenging should we follow your prescribed course of action;)
 

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#3
Farmers are basically fighting against the natural effects of the market ( they are agrarian socialists ) - yet somehow delude themselves that they are not. They also lapse into a pathalogical anti- intellectualism .. anyone with an idea is a ********er .. and are therfore always susceptable to populist right wing rubbish. For example, the whole green produce /greenhouse thing. These guys should benefit from all this yet they foam at the mouth at the very thought of 'greenies'. You get the feeling that it's all too hard for them to understand. I can see why the city business types , represented by Liberals, cannot accept the global warming concept as it disturbs their mindset ( guys, its REALLY happening ) and forces them to actually do something original .. but the farmers I would have thought are at the sharp end of all this. Yet .. no, why bother. Easier to take potshots at easy targets than actuall engage the brain. Pity.. esp. when the water starts to run out and the city types muscle in.
 

crocodileman

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funkyfreo said:
A bit harsh there I rekon.

I think Farmers are great, but certainly their representatives in public life DO seem to fit the bill of the above. I think it is a case of conservative farmers trying to tell us all what to do, and "normal" farmers just actually working hard and not getting involved.

I also quite enjoy eating, something that may be made more challenging should we follow your prescribed course of action;)
I enjoy eating too, funkyfreo, but that doesn't mean we have to use produce produced in this country. If food must be mass-produced, let it be on farms overseas and ship it into Australia. In some cases, it would be quicker than actually getting produce from remote places and states.

And no, I've never heard of a farmer doing any work, unless you count speaking bull********, whingeing and changing the oil in the tractor as doing work!
 

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#5
Ladies go to London town.... TRIT TROT, TRIT TROT, TRIT TROT.....

Gentlemen go to London towm... NIMMINY NIM, NIMMINY NIM, NIMMINY NIM..

But.......

Farmers......

They go.........


AAAAHHH GALLOPING GALLOPING GALLOPING GALLOPING GALLOPING GALLOPING .
 

funkyfreo

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#6
Leper said:
Ladies go to London town.... TRIT TROT, TRIT TROT, TRIT TROT.....

Gentlemen go to London towm... NIMMINY NIM, NIMMINY NIM, NIMMINY NIM..

But.......

Farmers......

They go.........


AAAAHHH GALLOPING GALLOPING GALLOPING GALLOPING GALLOPING GALLOPING .
we had a different version:

This is the way the lady rides: nim nim nim nim nim nim nim
This is the way the gentleman rides: trot trot trot trot
This is the way the FARMER rides: AAAAH GALLOPPY GALLOPY GALLOPY GALLOPY.
And THIS is the way the old man rides: Clip clop clip clop clip clop....and down the ditch.

(the kid youve been bouncing on your knee then falls as you open your knees. I used lo love that!!
 

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#7
Sorry you're right, I got the ladies and gentlemen around the wrong way (if I flew Qantas or lived in Sydney the difference wouldn't matter!).

Happy to edit my version to include the Old Man clause.
 

funkyfreo

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#8
Leper said:
Sorry you're right, I got the ladies and gentlemen around the wrong way (if I flew Qantas or lived in Sydney the difference wouldn't matter!).

Happy to edit my version to include the Old Man clause.
You have the London town bit though - I quite like that! Mine just ride around the paddock I guess? Going nowhere! like this thread;)
 

Dry Rot

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#9
crocodileman said:
Do we really need farmers? Are they costing the taxpayer more money than they are worth? I say yes, and I believe that these arguments are quite compelling.

As far as I'm concerned, they represent everything that is wrong with this country, and some!

Here's why they annoy me:-

1. They vote either Liberal, One Nation, National or Family First (except for those who are voting informal because they're illiterate!)
Must be a lot of non-farmers in towns & cities that annoy you too.

crocodileman said:
2. They breed intolerance and racial hatred through ignorance. Indeed, their racial hatred can be traced back to the earlier moments of European settlement and their attitudes to Aborigines and the resulting frontier violence.
Of course, there is no intolerance, racial hatred & ignorance in cities and towns

crocodileman said:
3. They are conservative and resistant to change - this is from voting to religious values but has also invading farming practices whereby they continue to engage in practices that are unproductive, costly and environmentally damaging.
You will find that much of agriculture has changed significantly faster than a lot of manufacturing industries

crocodileman said:
4. The whinge factor. Surely, I'm not the only one on this forum who nearly vomits when they here farmers complain about the effects of the drought (as if they are forced to remain on the land) only to turn and complain that when it does rain that it is either:-
(a) Too little, too late and not enough to save their crops; or
(b) Has caused widespread flooding and destroyed their grains, etc.
Yes, you're right here. No-one in cities and towns whinges at all, particularly about new freeways near their properties, flight paths, tollways, public transport etc

crocodileman said:
5. They are the biggest drain on our tax dollars and they have the audacity to whinge about Aborigines getting welfare benefits. If only Aborigines received half the inducements and benefits farmers' received, they may have something to complain about!
Perhaps you should check out the middle class welfare policies of both major parties

crocodileman said:
6. They are tax cheats - has anyone ever heard of a farmer actually declaring an income on a tax return?? If so, please notify the Guinness Book of Records!
Simply crap.

crocodileman said:
7. Who else in this country gets interest free loans and subsidies on fuel?
See comments on middle class welfare.

Can only presume you are taking the p1ss. If not, perhaps you can explain how we'll replace the export dollars farmers generate?
 

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No Dry Rot,

I'm not taking the p1ss at all - deadly serious.

Clearly the export dollars can be gained in many other areas - possibly look at the drain of Research and Development and scientific discoveries/scientists who leave Australia with their ideas/technologies for exploitation by other countries.

Many other industries are clearly more efficient and less reliant on external factors, such as the weather and environment. It would also be more environmentally favourable if widespread farming was stopped in Australia - golly, what about the amount of money the Federal Government is spending to save the Murray River, from problems caused in the main, by farmers and irrigation.

By the way, in your retort of my original piece, you didn't really disagree with much I said.

By the way, did I add that they are uneducated swill??
 

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#11
crocodileman said:
I enjoy eating too, funkyfreo, but that doesn't mean we have to use produce produced in this country. If food must be mass-produced, let it be on farms overseas and ship it into Australia. In some cases, it would be quicker than actually getting produce from remote places and states.

And no, I've never heard of a farmer doing any work, unless you count speaking bull********, whingeing and changing the oil in the tractor as doing work!
You are the first person to ******** me off, since i have been on this site. This is most ridiculous post i have seen.
1 yeah they do mostly vote for those parties ( you have just about named them all). They vote for for these parites like the majority of Australians do. Secondly they vote for these parties because the policies of a party like the national party support farming communities so why wouldn't they vote for them. Just like a environmentalist will vote for the greens
2 I am not even going to waste my time responding to this crap.
3 Australias farmers are some of the most innovative in the world ( you must no nothing about farming). Australian farmers are subsidized far less than many Noth amaericain farmers and are can produce products cheaper than south americain farmers (despite the the fact that australian don't have cheap labor).
Polution is far worse in the city, Industry causes much more damage to the environment
4 i here people winge about there jobs/Boss all the time. I doubt you have been in small business to understand the pressures.
5 aboringinals recieve far more tax dollars than farmers ( have a look at the figures before talking crap). Compare what farmers in Aus get to the rest of the world. University students have one of the highest susidize tertiary educations in the world..
6 It is australia's favourite pass time, everyone does it
7who else pays more for fuel than farmers. City people winge about fuel being over a 1$, its far worse in the country, at least in the city you have government funded public transport.
Many big business organisation are given incentives by the goverment. I can't think of a example off the top of my head, but i am a guessing the automotive industry is given a fair bit of money.

Finally farmers made australia what australia is today. you only have to look back through history to see this.
Next thing you will want to close down the miner industry as well.
If food could be imported cheaper from other countries we would be doing it. the simple fact is australian farmers are some of he most efficient in the world and a vital part of the australian economy.
 

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BB gun

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#12
crocodileman said:
No Dry Rot,

I'm not taking the p1ss at all - deadly serious.

Clearly the export dollars can be gained in many other areas - possibly look at the drain of Research and Development and scientific discoveries/scientists who leave Australia with their ideas/technologies for exploitation by other countries.

Many other industries are clearly more efficient and less reliant on external factors, such as the weather and environment. It would also be more environmentally favourable if widespread farming was stopped in Australia - golly, what about the amount of money the Federal Government is spending to save the Murray River, from problems caused in the main, by farmers and irrigation.

By the way, in your retort of my original piece, you didn't really disagree with much I said.

By the way, did I add that they are uneducated swill??
Export dollar can't be replaced by R & D, look at teh current account and GDP figures
Give an example of a industry they doesn't have external factory affecting production.

I am from WA so don't know much about Murray River situation.
 

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#13
For mine, the main thing farmers do that is a real environmental shocker is Land clearing. Everything else can be redeemed. You can reduce fertiliser use, water use, but you can;t bring bush back.

If farmers cannot survive without massive land clearing, then those areas should not be farmed as they are not stand alone sustainble. The destruction in QLD for example is worse than any industry - most of which operate under licence to emit pollution, and the licences control the key pollutants - eg some areas have caps on Sulphur production.
 

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BB gun said:
You are the first person to ******** me off, since i have been on this site. This is most ridiculous post i have seen.
1 yeah they do mostly vote for those parties ( you have just about named them all). They vote for for these parites like the majority of Australians do. Secondly they vote for these parties because the policies of a party like the national party support farming communities so why wouldn't they vote for them. Just like a environmentalist will vote for the greens
2 I am not even going to waste my time responding to this crap.
3 Australias farmers are some of the most innovative in the world ( you must no nothing about farming). Australian farmers are subsidized far less than many Noth amaericain farmers and are can produce products cheaper than south americain farmers (despite the the fact that australian don't have cheap labor).
Polution is far worse in the city, Industry causes much more damage to the environment
4 i here people winge about there jobs/Boss all the time. I doubt you have been in small business to understand the pressures.
5 aboringinals recieve far more tax dollars than farmers ( have a look at the figures before talking crap). Compare what farmers in Aus get to the rest of the world. University students have one of the highest susidize tertiary educations in the world..
6 It is australia's favourite pass time, everyone does it
7who else pays more for fuel than farmers. City people winge about fuel being over a 1$, its far worse in the country, at least in the city you have government funded public transport.
Many big business organisation are given incentives by the goverment. I can't think of a example off the top of my head, but i am a guessing the automotive industry is given a fair bit of money.

Finally farmers made australia what australia is today. you only have to look back through history to see this.
Next thing you will want to close down the miner industry as well.
If food could be imported cheaper from other countries we would be doing it. the simple fact is australian farmers are some of he most efficient in the world and a vital part of the australian economy.
Thankyou BB Gun,

Through your idiotic ramblings, laced with spelling errors, grammatical mistakes and textual faults, you have single-handedly advanced my arguments. I could spend all day on this tripe, reducing it to kitty litter, but you seem to have done it for me!

p.s. When you talk of the "miner industry" I can't help but picture little kiddies wearing hats with torches, painting each others faces with black paint. :D

Go away you illiterate fool!
 

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#15
crocodileman said:
Do we really need farmers? Are they costing the taxpayer more money than they are worth? I say yes, and I believe that these arguments are quite compelling.

As far as I'm concerned, they represent everything that is wrong with this country, and some!

Here's why they annoy me:-

1. They vote either Liberal, One Nation, National or Family First (except for those who are voting informal because they're illiterate!)

2. They breed intolerance and racial hatred through ignorance. Indeed, their racial hatred can be traced back to the earlier moments of European settlement and their attitudes to Aborigines and the resulting frontier violence.

3. They are conservative and resistant to change - this is from voting to religious values but has also invading farming practices whereby they continue to engage in practices that are unproductive, costly and environmentally damaging.

4. The whinge factor. Surely, I'm not the only one on this forum who nearly vomits when they here farmers complain about the effects of the drought (as if they are forced to remain on the land) only to turn and complain that when it does rain that it is either:-
(a) Too little, too late and not enough to save their crops; or
(b) Has caused widespread flooding and destroyed their grains, etc.

5. They are the biggest drain on our tax dollars and they have the audacity to whinge about Aborigines getting welfare benefits. If only Aborigines received half the inducements and benefits farmers' received, they may have something to complain about!

6. They are tax cheats - has anyone ever heard of a farmer actually declaring an income on a tax return?? If so, please notify the Guinness Book of Records!

7. Who else in this country gets interest free loans and subsidies on fuel?

I say, lets round these whinging, whining dogs up, put them all on Pitcairn Island (at taxpayer expense of course, in the true farming tradition!) and leave them to their own devices.

Who's up for a bit of rural resentment!
1. Of course they vote conservative, the alp hates them and all self employed people.

2. What a load of crap. Do you actually know any farmers or are you just making this nonsense up?

3. Resistant to change? You idiot. Heaps of agricultural inventions have been Australian. The ute, the stump jump plough, not to mention heaps of practices like intensive grazing, feedlots, lots of CSIRO backed research etc. You clearly have zero idea on this topic.

4. How many other businessmen are totally at the mercy of the weather? How many business complained in Victoria when the gas was off? The restaurants were going beserk, not to mention every bloke and his dog that couldnt take a shower. Listen to the union pigs squealing over the waterfront etc they still have jobs when there is a drought the farmers have virtually no income.

5. Once again you demonstrate what a complete fool you are. How can it be that in some situations Aborigines have the right to negotiate with miners on land they dont even own have not proven anything other than a very basic prima facie case to have had a connection with it yet farmers dont have the right to negotiation? Many of these farmers had 99 year leases granted to them by the govt then have had conditions imposed on them way outside of their lease terms. Its alright for tools in the city to go on about this but you have no idea about the reality of what actually happens.

Name all the subsidies farmers get? Diesel. Other than that there is bugger all. There have been schemes for particular groups like the sugar farmers but thats it. You are an ungrateful little fxck. Maybe take your head out of your arse and travel os and pay 3 times as much for steak of an inferior quality (like you do in the uk) and you will appreciate that Australian and NZ farmers are by far the most efficient and least subsidised farmers in the world. If you want to look at industries that are ripping off Australia poin the finger at TCF, the motor industry and the public service.

6. You have no idea.

7. Interest free loans are only ever handed out in exceptional circumstances. I dont know a farmer that has ever received one. You will find that the % of farmers who have is a small minority. If uni students like you paid the full rate for your subjects rather than have everyone subsidise their arts degrees then you would be in a better position to whinge about others.

Australia had the highest livest standard in the world in the 50's. This was basically due to wool prices being so high in the Korean War. The saying is Australia lived off the sheeps back not lived off a whingeing student/public servants/greenies backs. The mining and agriculture sectors still make up a majority of export earnings. Thus they are more responsible than anyone for our economic security. You should get down on your knees and bow every time you see a farmer as they contribute far more to the country than pathetic no hopers like yourself ever will.
 
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Admin #16
funkyfreo said:
For mine, the main thing farmers do that is a real environmental shocker is Land clearing. Everything else can be redeemed. You can reduce fertiliser use, water use, but you can;t bring bush back.

If farmers cannot survive without massive land clearing, then those areas should not be farmed as they are not stand alone sustainble. The destruction in QLD for example is worse than any industry - most of which operate under licence to emit pollution, and the licences control the key pollutants - eg some areas have caps on Sulphur production.
Maybe so, but that's no argument for saying farming shouldn't be done locally, just that it needs to be done differently. Importing produce is probably far worse environmentally, because of the environmental cost of transportation
 

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#17
BB gun said:
6 It is australia's favourite pass time, everyone does it
Second only to masturbation of course.

Whilst the crap this idiot is spraying is probably just a good attempt to wind a few people up, there are some very "high resource use / low reward" (read WOFTAM) farming activities that take place, the main one that springs to mind is cotton farming in the southern NSW, which pulls a heap of water out of the Murray and doesn't bring in a bucket load of export $$.

Other than that, I live in Vietnam and drink Aussie milk. Mainly because ours is A1 and the local stuff here is crap.
 

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#18
funkyfreo said:
For mine, the main thing farmers do that is a real environmental shocker is Land clearing. Everything else can be redeemed. You can reduce fertiliser use, water use, but you can;t bring bush back.
.
There is nothing wrong with clearing of land if done in the correct manner ie not too close to rivers, not on hilly areas where erosion occurs, leaving a certain number of trees in to hold the soil together etc. Alot of the land cleared is worthless scrub, its not like its areas with lots of trees. Telling farmers they cant clear worthless scrub is just a pathetic sop to a bunch of greenies who as usual have no idea what they are talking about. You would think farmers are doing pristine rainforest the way they carry on. If the area to be cleared is of such significance then the govt should declare it a national park. Every farmer in Tasmania could completely clear their land yet a huge % of the state would still be locked up from farming and forestry. The average farmer plants more trees on their properties than the average do gooding soap dodger living in in the inner city.

If you think you cant bring bush back then you are mistaken. I can assure you that if you lock up a paddock and fence it well from kangaroos then it will revegetate rapidly particularly if its next to well forested land. You can also plant trees, its not that difficult really.
 

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#19
Crocodileman hates ...................... yes that Johnny bloody Howard won again.

Who will he blame? the easiest target there is.

Why? Because he is a biggoted racist who resides inside the socialist movement, and attends any protest raly he can, so he can believe he is actually doing something rather than sitting on the dole.
 

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#21
You're just up for a troll, surely? Well, I'll bite for you.

Do you have any idea where the Australian economy would be without agricultural produce?

Let me guess, you're from the city, aren't you? Do you know where your meat comes from? Or milk & other dairy products, eggs, cereals, canola oil, vegetables, fruit, wool, cotton, bread....just to name a few? What would you do without us?

Racism & ignorance? You've clearly never lived on the land, nor met a farmer. We're not ignorant. We know reality better than many people in the city, who can't see past the supermarket shelves and zone 3.

We hate greenies for a reason, because they're trying to destroy our livelihood. "ooh, don't cut down that tree", or "don't plant anything there, it's a native grass". ****ers.

We vote Liberal for reasons city people cannot understand. At least in my area. Labor might do well for the city folk, but they neglect those of us in the country. Should see what's happened to my town since Bracks was voted in. Not a lot in the forward direction, I'll tell you that.

You wanna talk about whinging? Ever felt the effects of drought, or too much rain, or a storm? Try getting a phone call (on Christmas day, no less), that a massive hailstorm has just destroyed a huge canola crop (if you don't know, canola is difficult, but worth it if you can grow it) which cost you a lot of time, money and effort to put in.

Taxes: declaring an income? Yeah, perhaps if there was a stable/concrete one. You've no idea. Biggest drain on the tax dollars? Also the biggest contributors to the economy.

Interest free loans and subsidies on fuel? Please, if you find out how my father can get access to these, let me know! :)

"continue to engage in practices that are unproductive, costly and environmentally damaging"...do you know what happens on a farm, at all? Any idea about what's happened in the last 50 years? Thought not.

BTW. What race were your ancestors? Not European? The majority of this country have European ancestors, not just the farmers.

I'll take offence at your 'uneducated swill' comment, considering I grew up on a farm and am now studying science at university...

And...you don't think the Murray River might be 'drying up' because of a lack of rain do you? :confused:

But ok, put us all out on some island if you wish, but don't look at me when you want to know why the supermarket shelves are empty.

You're a w***er, and a bloody ignorant one.

OldLion, as for your comment about water usage, I don't see city folk needing to water crops that the country depends on for its food. People in the city want to water their ****ing sidewalks. Right. When that starts contributing to our economy, let us farmers know.

funkyfreo...farmers are doing all they can to offset the effects of land clearing - there's a hell of a lot of plantations being put in these days. I've planted hundreds of them myself (however boring it may be :().
 

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#22
BomberGal said:
Interest free loans and subsidies on fuel? Please, if you find out how my father can get access to these, let me know!
He can get the deisel rebate which I think you'll find he is anyway. It is a return of the excise on deisel, a subsidy relative to road trucks and private vehicle use. It is not supposed to be used off the farmers land (in tractors only) but a bit of it creeps into utes and the like so farmers are all evil no good idiots in keeping with the general tone of this thread. Mining rail and fishing all can get it.
Incidentally I farm and am finding this thread amusing. Sure your father would to.

http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/BD/2001-02/02bd075.htm
 

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#23
medusala said:
There is nothing wrong with clearing of land if done in the correct manner ie not too close to rivers, not on hilly areas where erosion occurs, leaving a certain number of trees in to hold the soil together etc. Alot of the land cleared is worthless scrub, its not like its areas with lots of trees. Telling farmers they cant clear worthless scrub is just a pathetic sop to a bunch of greenies who as usual have no idea what they are talking about. You would think farmers are doing pristine rainforest the way they carry on. If the area to be cleared is of such significance then the govt should declare it a national park. Every farmer in Tasmania could completely clear their land yet a huge % of the state would still be locked up from farming and forestry. The average farmer plants more trees on their properties than the average do gooding soap dodger living in in the inner city.

If you think you cant bring bush back then you are mistaken. I can assure you that if you lock up a paddock and fence it well from kangaroos then it will revegetate rapidly particularly if its next to well forested land. You can also plant trees, its not that difficult really.
Medders, read the whole thread, I'm on the farmer's side.

You do highlight a massive problem - people think that rainforest is more valuable than general bush - but for example the forests of South West WA are one of the world's great biodiversity hotspots. And just because if you fence it some grows back - we are talking about the ecosystem and not just the plants you can see. We are not talking "greenies" we are talking cold hard science.

BomberGal - I have no doubt many many farmers are trying to fix things up - but that does not change the fact that the broadscale clearing - that is done AGAINST THE LAW!!!!! - in places like Queensland is a DISGRACE - and gives all farmers a bad name.
 

pazza

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#25
The first thing no-one in this country should ever do is ******** off the farming community.

When you live on the urban/rural fringe as I do, you can see so easily the efforts these wonderful people make. From the amount of wool that is produced, which provide the basis for so many articles of clothing and carpet we all indulge in - to the development of milk products, so vital to maintain our physical strength from the calcium that milk provides - to the meat we enjoy eating having cooked it on our barbecues - to the development of househusbandry and breeding techniques that are so advanced that most would have never believed possible.

Farmers are also so giving to the communties they live in...members of volunteer fire services, country women's associations, progress associations and of course...regular customers at the local pubs and general stores.

Crocodileman..I'd suggest you get out more.
 
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