Father Son/ Academy Free Hits.

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Juddernaut08

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 8, 2007
9,250
12,355
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
The academies are great and have 100% added players to the AFL that would not previously have been drafted or even pursued AFL, the issue is that only the northern clubs have one.. Each AFL club should be given a zone to develop and grow talent within. The more elite talent that develops is better for the game.. it just needs to be fair for all 18 clubs. Go back to traditional zones, but perhaps exclude players that are rated top 20..
I think excluding the ability to match first round picks for academies would fix it all.
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

Seasoned Football Analyst
Aug 21, 2018
21,425
52,350
AFL Club
North Melbourne
We were only an AFL ruling away from getting Sam & Ben Reid too - the original rules were set at a 50 game minimum, his dad Bruce played 86 games for Footscray. A year or two before Sam/Ben were eligible the AFL changed the games requirement to 100.
If they'd kept that rule North would have Josh Kelly
 

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ItsAllAboutMe

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 22, 2006
8,195
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As long as you are happy to bring the same in for Father Sons. Can't bring a rule in for one and leave the other.
Why they are completely different, father son is an emotional tie to the footy club from generations which most cherish.. The geographical tie is not even close to the same. Do we really want to see someone named Daicos play for any one else other than Collingwood, same with Silvagni, Watson, Ablett (it never felt right him playing at Gold Coast) I would be happy for the criteria for selection to be harsher, perhaps 200 games or a club BNF etc but the father son rule should remain.
 

LukeParkerno1

Post-Human
Sep 23, 2005
137,086
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Why they are completely different, father son is an emotional tie to the footy club from generations which most cherish.. The geographical tie is not even close to the same. Do we really want to see someone named Daicos play for any one else other than Collingwood, same with Silvagni, Watson, Ablett (it never felt right him playing at Gold Coast) I would be happy for the criteria for selection to be harsher, perhaps 200 games or a club BNF etc but the father son rule should remain.
And there we have it anything to favour the Victorian clubs I see. Make the rule across the board whether it be academy, FS, NGA, whatever. Not that hard actually and I've been saying this for a few years. There is an easy solution yet the AFL is trying band aid alternatives.

They need to change the matching rule. You should have to match with a pick within 10 selections of when the pick is called.
 

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Dazb86

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 31, 2008
13,842
10,170
melbourne
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Western Bulldogs
And there we have it anything to favour the Victorian clubs I see. Make the rule across the board whether it be academy, FS, NGA, whatever. Not that hard actually and I've been saying this for a few years. There is an easy solution yet the AFL is trying band aid alternatives.

They need to change the matching rule. You should have to match with a pick within 10 selections of when the pick is called.
The swans have been around long enough to cash in on father sons
 

ItsAllAboutMe

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 22, 2006
8,195
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And there we have it anything to favour the Victorian clubs I see. Make the rule across the board whether it be academy, FS, NGA, whatever. Not that hard actually and I've been saying this for a few years. There is an easy solution yet the AFL is trying band aid alternatives.

They need to change the matching rule. You should have to match with a pick within 10 selections of when the pick is called.
The only club that doesn't have history old enough for players to procreate and produce father sons is GWS & GCS, and they have had no shortage of advantages of late.. But yeah I would be happy for there to be some sort of compensation for them over the next 20 years until they are mature enough.
 

LukeParkerno1

Post-Human
Sep 23, 2005
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The only club that doesn't have history old enough for players to procreate and produce father sons is GWS & GCS, and they have had no shortage of advantages of late.. But yeah I would be happy for there to be some sort of compensation for them over the next 20 years until they are mature enough.
I’m all for keeping FS, and for that matter Academy and NGA. Any pathway is a good thing for the game. We need these pathways to produce talent.

There needs to be better rules with matching. Now every club has done it but WB matching what will be pick 2 with a few picks in the 30’s isn’t what I call fair for everyone. Should have to match with a pick within 10 positions. That goes for Sydney too for the record just giving a more recent example. Second round picks carry way too many points
 

ItsAllAboutMe

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 22, 2006
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I’m all for keeping FS, and for that matter Academy and NGA. Any pathway is a good thing for the game. We need these pathways to produce talent.

There needs to be better rules with matching. Now every club has done it but WB matching what will be pick 2 with a few picks in the 30’s isn’t what I call fair for everyone. Should have to match with a pick within 10 positions. That goes for Sydney too for the record just giving a more recent example. Second round picks carry way too many points
I agree, but dont see father sons and Academies as the same.. One is about protecting the emotional tie some families have with a particular club and its supporter base.. These things drive culture. The other is about maximising talent and developing players to be the best they can be.. Sydney's academy is the standout here, what they were able to achieve in such a short period of time was remarkable, and this should not be squashed but embraced and this model should be used and available to all AFL clubs.. All clubs should be incentivised to build the pathways for talent in their region's to flourish, like they used to when we had zones.
 

Vikingnz

Premium Gold
Mar 11, 2013
1,070
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The part I don't understand (and it almost certainly comes down to my ignorance) is why academy pathways can't be funded and run by the AFL, and thus added to the overall talent pool with no club having a claim over a player.

Father/Son at this stage is probably an anachronism, but it is nice to have some semblance of sentimentality in the now heavily sterilised and commercialised league..
 

LukeParkerno1

Post-Human
Sep 23, 2005
137,086
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Sydney
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I agree, but dont see father sons and Academies as the same.. One is about protecting the emotional tie some families have with a particular club and its supporter base.. These things drive culture. The other is about maximising talent and developing players to be the best they can be.. Sydney's academy is the standout here, what they were able to achieve in such a short period of time was remarkable, and this should not be squashed but embraced and this model should be used and available to all AFL clubs.. All clubs should be incentivised to build the pathways for talent in their region's to flourish, like they used to when we had zones.
They should be the same with matching you can’t have separate rules. The points values needs to be changed second rounders are worth too much
 

LukeParkerno1

Post-Human
Sep 23, 2005
137,086
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Sydney
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The part I don't understand (and it almost certainly comes down to my ignorance) is why academy pathways can't be funded and run by the AFL, and thus added to the overall talent pool with no club having a claim over a player.

Father/Son at this stage is probably an anachronism, but it is nice to have some semblance of sentimentality in the now heavily sterilised and commercialised league..
They tried that before it was a horrible failure it’s why the clubs run them
 

PrisonBars4life

Team Captain
May 10, 2021
537
692
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
The academies are great and have 100% added players to the AFL that would not previously have been drafted or even pursued AFL, the issue is that only the northern clubs have one.. Each AFL club should be given a zone to develop and grow talent within. The more elite talent that develops is better for the game.. it just needs to be fair for all 18 clubs. Go back to traditional zones, but perhaps exclude players that are rated top 20..
It's interesting how fair always gets brought up when it is the Vics missing out on something. How many games will Carlton play outside of Victoria next year? How many prime time games will it receive? Carlton has access to father/ son players when 2 of the 4 clubs mentioned clearly do not. If you want to discuss their academies maybe we can discuss what a 'fair' competition looks like.

There is a genuine question to be had about what a fair academy system looks like. The NSW clubs seems to get a significant boost out of it, whereas the Qld clubs have not. Meanwhile a top 8 side over the past several years has got the 1st and 2nd pick player in consecutive drafts. Western Bulldogs has got more out of the system than Sydney/ GWS. Very good of you to to talk about fair while you and other Victorian clubs have been willing to strip these clubs of players at will. Maybe if you are so concerned about what's fair maybe you should stick your hand up for a Friday night game against GWS/GC at the G. You mind find it harder to strip players off these clubs when they aren't getting hoofed off to a Sunday afternoon game against St Kilda/ North in Tasmania infront of 10,000 or at Docklocks in front of 20k and noone watching on TV.
 

ItsAllAboutMe

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 22, 2006
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The part I don't understand (and it almost certainly comes down to my ignorance) is why academy pathways can't be funded and run by the AFL, and thus added to the overall talent pool with no club having a claim over a player.

Father/Son at this stage is probably an anachronism, but it is nice to have some semblance of sentimentality in the now heavily sterilised and commercialised league..
Well to an extent the AFL do, or they fund the state bodies who have the youth pathways.. Its just that clubs would do it far better, especially if they have the carrot of being able to get priority to the talent they develop.. As a 16yo from Pennant Hills would you rather see a bloke wearing a light Blue Football NSW polo and a clipboard, or have someone wearing a sydney swans polo who can sell you the dream..
 

PrisonBars4life

Team Captain
May 10, 2021
537
692
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
I agree, but dont see father sons and Academies as the same.. One is about protecting the emotional tie some families have with a particular club and its supporter base.. These things drive culture. The other is about maximising talent and developing players to be the best they can be.. Sydney's academy is the standout here, what they were able to achieve in such a short period of time was remarkable, and this should not be squashed but embraced and this model should be used and available to all AFL clubs.. All clubs should be incentivised to build the pathways for talent in their region's to flourish, like they used to when we had zones.
Very convenient. You should have claim to the progeny of the best of your past players because of 'culture', but everyone else can jump. You know what drives culture - actually having a player play their entire career at one of these clubs. GWS and GC has no club 'greats'. Every good player they have has either come to them at the end of their career for a pay day or left with bags full of cash to go home. There is always a 'I want to go play home to play with my Junior's mates' factor. How can they build culture when they don't have access to their locals?

The father son rule started in 1949. It has as much place in a draft era AFL as the academies. The AFL made sure it was almost impossible to qualify for the SA teams through its transitional rules. The Crows never had a Father son under those rules. Hilariously, Brett Ebert, the only player to be drafted under those rules, was apparently ineligible. They were so convoluted that even the AFL didn't understand them and 392 game, 3x premiership player, and greatest Port Adelaide player ever was actually not eligible to have his son drafted to Port. Crow's great Graham Cornes Watched both his sons play for his arch enemy. We get to watch James Borlase, son of Darryl, who played 246 games and captained Port go to our arch rival in Adelaide. We get to Watch the son of one of our best ever players in Byron Pickett, win a flag last year for Melbourne. Jesse Motlop will be drafted by someone other than Port Adelaide despite his father Daniel and 2 uncles having played for us. We will watch Horne-Francis go on to be a star at another club while being the step son of Fabian Francis, an Inaugural Power player who played 120 games for the Magpies/ Power. We get to Watch Erin Phillips become one of the best AFLW players and win multiple flags with our arch enemies. Am I saying all this to whinge? Yes, but the point is we're not rolling up into a ball and crying about the destruction of our culture and demanding rules that benefit only us. Life will go on. People go and forge their own path. 2 of your all time greats in Stephen Kernahan and Craig Bradley were already superstars of SANFL clubs when they shifted to Carlton. Brad and Brett Ebert ended up at Port despite neither being eligible for F/S at Port. If they want to be a part of the club (and the club wants it enough) they will make it happen (but importantly pay market value for the player).

F/S should go. All the academies bar the Northern ones should go. There should be some tinkering with those and if that means the AFL take them over, then so be it. There is either a draft and an equal comp or there is not. The northern academies exist as a means to try and balance the advantage other teams have over them. You don't get to 'even up' the academies whilst denying every other request non Vic clubs have to even the comp up.
 

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