Father Son/ Academy Free Hits.

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ItsAllAboutMe

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 22, 2006
8,195
8,965
AFL Club
Carlton
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Tottenham Hotspur
Nice rant, but the basis of your article is just trash.. Not sure where you get the 'convenient' part from, I was simply highlighting that I like both the Father Son and Academies but for completely different reasons ...The historical stuff with Cornes & Eberts are historical and barely relevant to todays discussion but I will acknowledge the eligibility conditions of the past were overly harsh, but all SA & WA clubs as well as Brisbane have enough history and are mature enough that they should be drawing their own father sons from the available eligible pool in line with the rest of the comp and should not need extra concessions.

The more recent examples you quoted were,
Bryon Pickett played 55 games for Port
Daniel Motlop 83 games
Fabian Francis 86 games

Neither of these played the 100 games required to qualify for father son. I am sure every club could come up with similar examples of players that fell short of qualifying.. Its also worth noting that all 3 of these players played for other AFL clubs prior to joining Port.
 

Schauermann

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 27, 2011
6,282
3,662
Hamburg
AFL Club
Fremantle
Is there a mother son rule with the AFLW??? and with the amount of gay relationships in the AFLW program requiring IVF donors sperm to procreate... who would would be the ideal donor??
Not yet , but they are working on it: "Plans are in place in future years for mother–son and mother–daughter rules." 5 seasons now means less then 50 games for players. And the last teams entering in 2023. They would be disadvantaged early with some other teams having some 7 year players already.
 

PrisonBars4life

Team Captain
May 10, 2021
537
692
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Nice rant, but the basis of your article is just trash.. Not sure where you get the 'convenient' part from, I was simply highlighting that I like both the Father Son and Academies but for completely different reasons ...The historical stuff with Cornes & Eberts are historical and barely relevant to todays discussion but I will acknowledge the eligibility conditions of the past were overly harsh, but all SA & WA clubs as well as Brisbane have enough history and are mature enough that they should be drawing their own father sons from the available eligible pool in line with the rest of the comp and should not need extra concessions.

The more recent examples you quoted were,
Bryon Pickett played 55 games for Port
Daniel Motlop 83 games
Fabian Francis 86 games

Neither of these played the 100 games required to qualify for father son. I am sure every club could come up with similar examples of players that fell short of qualifying.. Its also worth noting that all 3 of these players played for other AFL clubs prior to joining Port.
Again very convenient that after producing flags for their respective teams and now 'everyone can benefit' just under a different set of rules. What draft picks were Ablett, Scarlett, Tom Hawkins taken at? What about Cloke, Shaw x2? Freebie picks won those teams flags. Borlase isn't a historical example, he's a 1st (now 2nd) year player. While we were dealing with rules deliberately designed to make it impossible to benefit from, teams were winning flags off the back of drafting good players for nothing. Everyone wants to put an asterix against Brisbane's flags, but bristle at the suggestion for Geelong or Collingwood. Port have drawn some recently but it is basically a lucky dip of whose parents have children who turn out to be superstars (instead of just good). There is no reason why the F/S system should exist in a national competition. Team's are more than happy to trade players away (ala Kennedy/Danniher). They're happy to not take borderline players. The F/S rule is all about whether you hit the jackpot and have a top 10-15 pick available to you, so the 20% discount means something and you can sell off your 1st round draft pick and pick up a gun with 3 late picks you didn't want to use anyway. It's got nothing to do with culture.

The Academies were brought in to ensure GWS and GC could actually get off the ground. Then the Vic clubs make sure the rules get rigged in their favor. areas like Ballarat, Bendigo, are clearly better than other areas. North Melbourne got all of Tasmania. the Vic clubs can suck it for a change that someone is getting something they're not.
 

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Liam Boy

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 12, 2008
5,928
9,802
Melbourne
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The academies are great and have 100% added players to the AFL that would not previously have been drafted or even pursued AFL, the issue is that only the northern clubs have one.. Each AFL club should be given a zone to develop and grow talent within. The more elite talent that develops is better for the game.. it just needs to be fair for all 18 clubs. Go back to traditional zones, but perhaps exclude players that are rated top 20..
No, getting rid of zoning in the 80s and 90s was the right move, it's inherently really unequal and would only compromise the draft further. The solution is to keep the Northern academies but have them be run by the AFL. It's easy to argue that those clubs deserve to capitalise for the investment they put into their academy players, so take the investment away.

I think excluding the ability to match first round picks for academies would fix it all.
The only problem is that if the clubs can't capitalise on their academy players becoming top picks, there's less value for them in running the academies and trying to attract the best talent. The only way to keep the academies (which are good for the game) and make it fair is to take them away from the clubs.
 

PrisonBars4life

Team Captain
May 10, 2021
537
692
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
No, getting rid of zoning in the 80s and 90s was the right move, it's inherently really unequal and would only compromise the draft further. The solution is to keep the Northern academies but have them be run by the AFL. It's easy to argue that those clubs deserve to capitalise for the investment they put into their academy players, so take the investment away.



The only problem is that if the clubs can't capitalise on their academy players becoming top picks, there's less value for them in running the academies and trying to attract the best talent. The only way to keep the academies (which are good for the game) and make it fair is to take them away from the clubs.
To me that is the solution that will eventually happen. They will get a few more years of plucking some good talent, then the AFL will come in and take over. Hopefully GWS or Sydney roll a Big 4 club in a grand final with some academy player they got for a bag of chips running amok in the meantime.
 

powerrrrrrrrrrrr

Premiership Player
Feb 17, 2010
3,633
6,651
adelaide
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Time to scrap both
Id be pissed if they scrap the FS rule now.

Port may finally have some potentially good FS prospects coming through in the next 5 or so years from those who played around 2000-2004 when we were our strongest. If now we miss out on them after so many other clubs have benefited from the rule for the last 20+ years then that’s a bit of a joke.
 

the Ziebull

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 14, 2010
26,447
24,871
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Id be pissed if they scrap the FS rule now.

Port may finally have some potentially good FS prospects coming through in the next 5 or so years from those who played around 2000-2004 when we were our strongest. If now we miss out on them after so many other clubs have benefited from the rule for the last 20+ years then that’s a bit of a joke.
No not FS

scrap NGA and all academies in general giving priority access
 

Bjo187

Team Captain
Apr 30, 2020
398
522
AFL Club
Essendon
The nga not applying to the first round is a good rule. The nga not applying till after pick 40 is a terrible rule and no clubs will bother investing in their areas anymore. Sometimes I wonder who dreams up these ideas at afl house.
 

Virgin Dog

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 29, 2017
9,013
18,945
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
No not FS

scrap NGA and all academies in general giving priority access
I can understand some variation of a zoning system for GWS and GC, purely because they haven't been around anywhere near long enough for FS, but otherwise agree academies should be funded and run by the AFL, even if they have to contract an independent company to provide the service.

As much as I loved it, we have no business having JUH, nor should North have Thomas, or Heeney at Sydney, etc. Each of these guys should've been available to every club. Father son is questionable enough as it is
 

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Liam Boy

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 12, 2008
5,928
9,802
Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
The nga not applying to the first round is a good rule. The nga not applying till after pick 40 is a terrible rule and no clubs will bother investing in their areas anymore. Sometimes I wonder who dreams up these ideas at afl house.
that's not a perfect solution, because the NSW and Queensland clubs have far less incentive to invest in their academy programs now that if they raise the next isaac heeney they can't actually keep him.

as it currently stands, those clubs' academies compete in the NAB league, alongside clubs which by design have no affiliation with AFL clubs. they should either replace the academies with four new NAB league sides, or set up a Northern equivalent to the NAB league. We keep hearing that auskick numbers in those states are way up, in a few years when those kids are teenagers, having a local league with elite standards could be the difference between sticking to footy and trying a different code.
 

Bjo187

Team Captain
Apr 30, 2020
398
522
AFL Club
Essendon
But it doesn't apply to the northern clubs is my understanding. They can still take their academy kids in any round.
 

Grand Uncle Horace

Hall of Famer
May 24, 2017
32,107
38,928
Old South Grandstand
AFL Club
Sydney
The Northern Academies grow the game. I am peeved my mob did not take even a Cat B rookie this year. Still umpteen kids have graduated and will play the game in local comps and add to the love and tradition of the code.

The 4 Northern Clubs by the way suffer from go home factor and merit having the chance to develop and retain at least a few home grown products.
 

the Ziebull

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 14, 2010
26,447
24,871
AFL Club
North Melbourne
The Northern Academies grow the game. I am peeved my mob did not take even a Cat B rookie this year. Still umpteen kids have graduated and will play the game in local comps and add to the love and tradition of the code.

The 4 Northern Clubs by the way suffer from go home factor and merit having the chance to develop and retain at least a few home grown products.
Why can’t the afl fund them and run them so that no club gets priority access to them

it works out in the long run too as maybe more get drafted and players request trades home to those academy areas
 

danster168

Club Legend
Apr 29, 2016
1,907
1,935
AFL Club
Melbourne
well the AFL Draft system is one of the most compromised of any sport in the world and the bulldogs have been the biggest beneficiary. As a dees fan it's hard not to feel hard done by after having Mac Andrew stolen from us due to the AFL realising that the Ugle-Hagan gift to the dogs was too unfair. So not only do they give the dogs an unfair advantage, they further disadvantage us by not giving us Mac Andrew. The dees are a club that has had only 1 decent father son since it's existence.

They need to scrap both the father/son and the NGA.
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

Seasoned Football Analyst
Aug 21, 2018
21,423
52,346
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Very convenient. You should have claim to the progeny of the best of your past players because of 'culture', but everyone else can jump. You know what drives culture - actually having a player play their entire career at one of these clubs. GWS and GC has no club 'greats'. Every good player they have has either come to them at the end of their career for a pay day or left with bags full of cash to go home. There is always a 'I want to go play home to play with my Junior's mates' factor. How can they build culture when they don't have access to their locals?

The father son rule started in 1949. It has as much place in a draft era AFL as the academies. The AFL made sure it was almost impossible to qualify for the SA teams through its transitional rules. The Crows never had a Father son under those rules. Hilariously, Brett Ebert, the only player to be drafted under those rules, was apparently ineligible. They were so convoluted that even the AFL didn't understand them and 392 game, 3x premiership player, and greatest Port Adelaide player ever was actually not eligible to have his son drafted to Port. Crow's great Graham Cornes Watched both his sons play for his arch enemy. We get to watch James Borlase, son of Darryl, who played 246 games and captained Port go to our arch rival in Adelaide. We get to Watch the son of one of our best ever players in Byron Pickett, win a flag last year for Melbourne. Jesse Motlop will be drafted by someone other than Port Adelaide despite his father Daniel and 2 uncles having played for us. We will watch Horne-Francis go on to be a star at another club while being the step son of Fabian Francis, an Inaugural Power player who played 120 games for the Magpies/ Power. We get to Watch Erin Phillips become one of the best AFLW players and win multiple flags with our arch enemies. Am I saying all this to whinge? Yes, but the point is we're not rolling up into a ball and crying about the destruction of our culture and demanding rules that benefit only us. Life will go on. People go and forge their own path. 2 of your all time greats in Stephen Kernahan and Craig Bradley were already superstars of SANFL clubs when they shifted to Carlton. Brad and Brett Ebert ended up at Port despite neither being eligible for F/S at Port. If they want to be a part of the club (and the club wants it enough) they will make it happen (but importantly pay market value for the player).

F/S should go. All the academies bar the Northern ones should go. There should be some tinkering with those and if that means the AFL take them over, then so be it. There is either a draft and an equal comp or there is not. The northern academies exist as a means to try and balance the advantage other teams have over them. You don't get to 'even up' the academies whilst denying every other request non Vic clubs have to even the comp up.
Kozzie Pickett isn't Byron's son.

Byron's kids will be going to North anyway.
 

LukeParkerno1

Post-Human
Sep 23, 2005
137,071
56,478
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Sydney Swans
well the AFL Draft system is one of the most compromised of any sport in the world and the bulldogs have been the biggest beneficiary. As a dees fan it's hard not to feel hard done by after having Mac Andrew stolen from us due to the AFL realising that the Ugle-Hagan gift to the dogs was too unfair. So not only do they give the dogs an unfair advantage, they further disadvantage us by not giving us Mac Andrew. The dees are a club that has had only 1 decent father son since it's existence.

They need to scrap both the father/son and the NGA.
No they need to make the matching fairer. I say this as a club with academies, you shouldn't be able to match a top 2 pick with some rubbish picks in the 30's. You should have to match with a pick within 10 spots of where it is selected, otherwise you lose the player, simple.
 

danster168

Club Legend
Apr 29, 2016
1,907
1,935
AFL Club
Melbourne
No they need to make the matching fairer. I say this as a club with academies, you shouldn't be able to match a top 2 pick with some rubbish picks in the 30's. You should have to match with a pick within 10 spots of where it is selected, otherwise you lose the player, simple.
Totally agree. I don't give a flying F what anyone says about the points system, the point system doesn't give enough value into high picks.
 

danster168

Club Legend
Apr 29, 2016
1,907
1,935
AFL Club
Melbourne
Also you shouldn't be able to match first rounders in the second round. I wouldn't be against removing the discount in the first round
I have a feeling the afl will change the rules just before the dees get Jeff White's son. Another typical example of the dees getting * by the AFL in the father/son, NGA system.
 
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Chopperdave

Club Legend
Aug 29, 2008
2,290
2,551
Melbourne
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
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I have a feeling the afl will change the rules just before the dees get Jeff White's son. Another typical example of the dees getting by the AFL in the father/son, NGA system.
You blokes tanked to get priority picks. Melbourne can't complain about sh*t when it comes to the draft.
 
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