Father Son/ Academy Free Hits.

[ItsAllAboutMe]

It just seems like the Bulldogs continually get free hits when it comes to father son or academy selections, where a club like Carlton get nothing.. This cant just be luck and must be doing something different..

On the Dogs list they have Zaine Cordy

21

Zaine Cordy

Age

27

Ht

195cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.6

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.1

4star

MG

180.4

3star

D

8.1

2star

K

6.4

3star

HB

1.7

1star

M

2.9

3star

T

1.9

3star

MG

180.4

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

3.8

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.8

4star

, Lachy Hunter, Tom Libreatore, Mitch Wallis, Rylee West as father son selections and are about to add Sam Darcy, the #3 rated player in the draft.. on top of this they got Jamara Ugle Hagen as an academy selection.. Basically 1/3 of their list is built from 'free hit' players.

The only other club I can think of that comes close is Collingwood with Moore, Brown x2, Kelly, & Daicos x 2. The pies have always produced strong offspring with the Clokes & Shaws making up key parts of there succesful teams in 2010. Geelong had GAJ, Nathan Ablett, Scarlett and Tom Hawkins

26

Tom Hawkins

Age

35

Ht

197cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.9

4star

G

2.1

5star

D

12.7

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

2.1

3star

G

1.6

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

5.6

3star

HB

2.2

2star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.0

3star

G

2.2

5star

.. 14 All Australians amongst these.

Compared to Carton who have Jack Silvagni

1

Jack Silvagni

Age

26

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.7

4star

D

5.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.3

1star

M

1.7

2star

T

0.7

1star

G

0.7

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.8

4star

and that is it, and the only others we have had in the past are Ben Silvagni who didnt play a game, Pat Kerr

Pat Kerr

Age

25

Ht

197cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.3

2star

K

7.0

3star

HB

2.3

2star

M

4.3

4star

T

0.8

3star

G

0.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

9.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

2.3

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

0.8

3star

G

0.5

3star

who played 2 and then nothing until you go back to Jarrad Waite

Jarrad Waite

Age

41

Ht

194cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.3

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

4.5

3star

M

5.8

5star

T

2.7

4star

G

1.5

5star

No current season stats available

D

9.4

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.2

4star

G

0.6

3star

& Lance Whitnal

I am not saying I want the rule to go, but it just seems strange the significant advantage it does give some clubs whilst others completely miss out.

 

[00Stinger]

 

[Mofra]

Yeah but we had 7 years of Ayce Cordy

Ayce Cordy

Age

33

Ht

204cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.0

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

4.3

3star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

0.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

9.0

3star

K

3.0

1star

HB

6.0

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.2

3star

so it all balances out.

 

[eastfreo75]

It just seems like the Bulldogs continually get free hits when it comes to father son or academy selections, where a club like Carlton get nothing.. This cant just be luck and must be doing something different..

On the Dogs list they have Zaine Cordy, Lachy Hunter, Tom Libreatore, Mitch Wallis, Rylee West as father son selections and are about to add Sam Darcy, the #3 rated player in the draft.. on top of this they got Jamara Ugle Hagen as an academy selection.. Basically 1/3 of their list is built from 'free hit' players.

The only other club I can think of that comes close is Collingwood with Moore, Brown x2, Kelly, & Daicos x 2. The pies have always produced strong offspring with the Clokes & Shaws making up key parts of there succesful teams in 2010. Geelong had GAJ, Nathan Ablett, Scarlett and Tom Hawkins.. 14 All Australians amongst these.

Compared to Carton who have Jack Silvagni and that is it, and the only others we have had in the past are Ben Silvagni who didnt play a game, Pat Kerr who played 2 and then nothing until you go back to Jarrad Waite & Lance Whitnal

I am not saying I want the rule to go, but it just seems strange the significant advantage it does give some clubs whilst others completely miss out.

Need to get rid of the discount and limit the amount of picks used on points with available spots on the list.

Reduces the advantage.

 

[Colonial]

Yay another academy f/s thread………..

 

[Teen Wolf]

Let's see... John Murphy 200+ games for Fitzroy, Ross Gibbs 250+ games for Glenelg.

Maybe if their boys had been stolen by Geelong, they'd have combined for more than just the one All-Australian selection managed at Carlton. Who can say.

 

[Jack Green]

It just seems like the Bulldogs continually get free hits when it comes to father son or academy selections, where a club like Carlton get nothing.. This cant just be luck and must be doing something different..

On the Dogs list they have Zaine Cordy, Lachy Hunter, Tom Libreatore, Mitch Wallis, Rylee West as father son selections and are about to add Sam Darcy, the #3 rated player in the draft.. on top of this they got Jamara Ugle Hagen as an academy selection.. Basically 1/3 of their list is built from 'free hit' players.

The only other club I can think of that comes close is Collingwood with Moore, Brown x2, Kelly, & Daicos x 2. The pies have always produced strong offspring with the Clokes & Shaws making up key parts of there succesful teams in 2010. Geelong had GAJ, Nathan Ablett, Scarlett and Tom Hawkins.. 14 All Australians amongst these.

Compared to Carton who have Jack Silvagni and that is it, and the only others we have had in the past are Ben Silvagni who didnt play a game, Pat Kerr who played 2 and then nothing until you go back to Jarrad Waite & Lance Whitnal

I am not saying I want the rule to go, but it just seems strange the significant advantage it does give some clubs whilst others completely miss out.

Silvagni, Waite , Whitnall - mate compared to the Saints the Blues have been blessed!!
If I threw up David Sierakowski you would probably say who?? Offhand, wouldn't think there are are any clubs who have done worse than the Saints in the father/son stakes.
Think all our top players have had daughters. Luck of the draw isn't it??

 

[radiojake]

Offhand, wouldn't think there are are any clubs who have done worse than the Saints in the father/son stakes.

Crows rookie listen Ben Jarman and Jackson Edwards for a combined total of 0 games and they probably only got rookie listed in the first place because of their surnames - still yet to take a father/son in the national draft

Ironically Port Adelaide's only father/son to play AFL footy thus far was Ebert who technically, but no one realised because of how stupid that concept would have been, wasn't actually eligible to be taken F/S at the time of his drafting -

 

[Jack Green]

Crows rookie listen Ben Jarman and Jackson Edwards for a combined total of 0 games and they probably only got rookie listed in the first place because of their surnames - still yet to take a father/son in the national draft

Ironically Port Adelaide's only father/son to play AFL footy thus far was Ebert who technically, but no one realised because of how stupid that concept would have been, wasn't actually eligible to be taken F/S at the time of his drafting -

Well there you go. I stand corrected. My knowledge of the interstate clubs isn't so good.
Suspect the Saints have the Melbourne clubs covered mind you.

 

[Vikingnz]

Well there you go. I stand corrected. My knowledge of the interstate clubs isn't so good.
Suspect the Saints have the Melbourne clubs covered mind you.

Statistically, you are correct

Club	Total	Average
Geelong	1233​	94.85​
Collingwood	962​	60.13​
Essendon	743​	106.14​
Western Bulldogs	722​	90.25​
Richmond	640​	80.00​
West Coast	549​	91.50​
Carlton	533​	53.30​
Fitzroy/Brisbane	314​	78.50​
Hawthorn	308​	77.00​
Sydney	251​	50.20​
Melbourne	220​	36.67​
Port Adelaide	166​	41.50​
North Melbourne	140​	35.00​
St Kilda	104​	34.67​
Fremantle	75​	75.00​
Adelaide	0​	0.00​

 

[Jack Green]

Statistically, you are correct

Club	Total	Average
Geelong	1233​	94.85​
Collingwood	962​	60.13​
Essendon	743​	106.14​
Western Bulldogs	722​	90.25​
Richmond	640​	80.00​
West Coast	549​	91.50​
Carlton	533​	53.30​
Fitzroy/Brisbane	314​	78.50​
Hawthorn	308​	77.00​
Sydney	251​	50.20​
Melbourne	220​	36.67​
Port Adelaide	166​	41.50​
North Melbourne	140​	35.00​
St Kilda	104​	34.67​
Fremantle	75​	75.00​
Adelaide	0​	0.00​

 

[Jack Green]

Love your work. Great stats.
Yeah, I was thinking North might give us a run for our $.
Don't Adelaide make interesting reading. 30 years in the comp- quite amazing really .

 

[PhatBoy]

Seems unfair that a club can be a rabble for two decades and their punishment is to continually be handed early draft picks.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Silvagni, Waite , Whitnall - mate compared to the Saints the Blues have been blessed!!
If I threw up David Sierakowski you would probably say who?? Offhand, wouldn't think there are are any clubs who have done worse than the Saints in the father/son stakes.
Think all our top players have had daughters. Luck of the draw isn't it??

At least you beat Carlton in the battle for Bailey Rice.. I remember being filthy we missed him..

 

[citizen-erased]

it's a tough one

on one hand you could go down the path of the NGA ruling - i.e players falling into a range are off limits for a free hit
But on the other, there is the romance of a Darcy, Daniher, Ablett, etc running out in the colours we remember their dad in.
Something a little unique to our game that i like.

Main issue i see is it has for so long benefited the old VFL clubs
Every new club has at least a 20 year disadvantage on that front.

As for the Dogs....Hunter could have been bid on earlier. Libba & Cordy were under the bidding system too.
I would say it's primarily the Cats that had the free hits from the original rules.

 

[iameviljez]

Relax, it’s pretty much random and your time will come.

 

[Mofra]

it's a tough one

on one hand you could go down the path of the NGA ruling - i.e players falling into a range are off limits for a free hit
But on the other, there is the romance of a Darcy, Daniher, Ablett, etc running out in the colours we remember their dad in.
Something a little unique to our game that i like.

Main issue i see is it has for so long benefited the old VFL clubs
Every new club has at least a 20 year disadvantage on that front.

As for the Dogs....Hunter could have been bid on earlier. Libba & Cordy were under the bidding system too.
I would say it's primarily the Cats that had the free hits from the original rules.

We were only an AFL ruling away from getting Sam & Ben Reid too - the original rules were set at a 50 game minimum, his dad Bruce played 86 games for Footscray. A year or two before Sam/Ben were eligible the AFL changed the games requirement to 100.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Need to get rid of the discount and limit the amount of picks used on points with available spots on the list.

Reduces the advantage.

The bolded part is already in place. As for removing the discount, I fully agree. There is no logical reason behind the discount existing when you are already getting to bundle up rubbish picks to get access to a higher pick. I'd even be fine with it going one step further and applying a 10-20% penalty on bid matching. If you want the player that bad, you should pay up

 

[hawkman]

Statistically, you are correct

Club	Total	Average
Geelong	1233​	94.85​
Collingwood	962​	60.13​
Essendon	743​	106.14​
Western Bulldogs	722​	90.25​
Richmond	640​	80.00​
West Coast	549​	91.50​
Carlton	533​	53.30​
Fitzroy/Brisbane	314​	78.50​
Hawthorn	308​	77.00​
Sydney	251​	50.20​
Melbourne	220​	36.67​
Port Adelaide	166​	41.50​
North Melbourne	140​	35.00​
St Kilda	104​	34.67​
Fremantle	75​	75.00​
Adelaide	0​	0.00​

Most of those games for Hawthorn weren't actually played for Hawthorn

Steven Greene 42
Travis Tuck 20
Josh Kennedy 13
Finn Maginness 3

Unless it is going way back to John Kennedy's 241

We did at least take Mitchell as revenge for Kennedy

 

[hawkman]

We were only an AFL ruling away from getting Sam & Ben Reid too - the original rules were set at a 50 game minimum, his dad Bruce played 86 games for Footscray. A year or two before Sam/Ben were eligible the AFL changed the games requirement to 100.

Just adds further to the luck the Bulldogs have had with the father son rule

 

[eastfreo75]

Most of those games for Hawthorn weren't actually played for Hawthorn

Steven Greene 42
Travis Tuck 20
Josh Kennedy 13
Finn Maginness 3

Unless it is going way back to John Kennedy's 241

We did at least take Mitchell as revenge for Kennedy

Massive gap between the Crows and the Cats.

 

[hawkman]

Massive gap between the Crows and the Cats.

The big advantage Geelong got was being able to get Hawkins and Selwood in the same year. If the rules were changed a year earlier, Selwood wouldn't be a Geelong player

 

[Mofra]

Just adds further to the luck the Bulldogs have had with the father son rule

We've also got Izzy Grant playing in our AFLW side (daughter of Chris).
Collingwood passed over Billy Picken's son Liam who ended up having a long career with us as well. We were lucky that he started at Williamstown before we took over the AFL/VFL alignment for a few years.

 

[eastfreo75]

The big advantage Geelong got was being able to get Hawkins and Selwood in the same year. If the rules were changed a year earlier, Selwood wouldn't be a Geelong player

G Ablett, Scarlett and Hawkins all went for the price of a third round pick each.

 

[hawkman]

G Ablett, Scarlett and Hawkins all went for the price of a third round pick each.

Scarlett from memory was never highly rated prior to the draft, Ablett was rated maybe a late 1st round pick in the 2001 super draft. Hawkins was widely regarded as the number 1 pick though