Analysis Father Son Selections

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footscray1973

Club Legend
May 17, 2004
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Thanks for that. I was thinking he must be a father son rather than NGA
He is a father son actually, the son of obscure 80s and 90s player Scott Scott. Of course Scott Scott, not to be confused with other Scotts of the era - Wynd, West, Allen and Taylor, has been collectively wiped from our memories and the record books due to the scandalous actions he was part of at the time - that potato incident with the trainer, the honey and rawhide photos involving a certain committee member's other half and a state politician of the time, and of course the liniment, whipped cream, rub-down table and fried rice allegations rumoured to have involved several other high-profile players who have never been named.

If you dig deep enough, you will find that the only player to have worn #67 onto the field for us has had his career of largely forgettable 101 games doctored:

ScottScott.JPG


Scott_game.JPG


It's a shame really, as no one remembers him - but at least that great benefactor known as the AFL will allow us to claim his son. At least I think it's his son, maybe I'm seriously mistaken?
 

Maverick Dog

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Oct 30, 2003
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I know zero about the kid but they were discussing him on SEN and said he is moving up towards top 20.

Nick Cox type but nowhere near the tank is what they said.

Sounds promising
Sam’s grandfathers both played vfl I believe. David Shaw played for the bombers and is a premiership player. Should be no dilution of the gene pool.
 

Virgin Dog

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 29, 2017
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I love the Father-Son rule and I hope it stays
That's fine. I enjoy it largely because it gives us a leg up. But that doesn't change the fact that it's grossly unfair. Similar to how Sydney gets the perpetual advantage of their academy, giving them access to Heeney, Mills, Blakey, Campbell, Gulden, etc. I'm sure they love it too, but it's still clearly an unfair system
 

doggies ftw

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 22, 2008
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That's fine. I enjoy it largely because it gives us a leg up. But that doesn't change the fact that it's grossly unfair. Similar to how Sydney gets the perpetual advantage of their academy, giving them access to Heeney, Mills, Blakey, Campbell, Gulden, etc. I'm sure they love it too, but it's still clearly an unfair system
It doesn’t give us a leg up at all, we’ve been lucky, another club will be lucky too. Like Pies getting the number 1 pick this year, it’s not systematically unfair like the academy’s. It’s great
 

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Virgin Dog

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 29, 2017
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It doesn’t give us a leg up at all, we’ve been lucky, another club will be lucky too. Like Pies getting the number 1 pick this year, it’s not systematically unfair like the academy’s. It’s great
It is though. Many clubs never get access to father sons at all, it's completely random and there's no legitimate argument behind it existing
 

Dale4captain

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Sep 14, 2010
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It is though. Many clubs never get access to father sons at all, it's completely random and there's no legitimate argument behind it existing
I’d say the legitimate argument behind it existing is the beautiful nostalgia it delivers and is a great grounding tool to remind us as supporters that it’s just f*n footy and these are people with beautiful families. It allows for connection and stability and doesn’t need to make logical sense like the rest of the robotic corporate world.
We’ve benefitted out of pure dumb luck in the last ten years which we’ve had sweet f all of in other footy aspects across the previous 60 years. Take what we can get and appreciate the simplicity of the rule while it’s still there!
 

dogwatch

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Jun 17, 2009
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It is though. Many clubs never get access to father sons at all, it's completely random and there's no legitimate argument behind it existing
That's largely correct.

However there is a legitimate argument, whether we agree with it or not. That's to preserve the "romance" of having the sons of famous players play with the same club their Dad was associated with. Originally it was a 50 game qualification but that was changed to 100 games a long time back (maybe 30-40 years ago?)

That argument is not about equity or fair access to the talent pool. It's more about maintaining a sense of tradition and romance in the game.

For those who think it's unfair and that there are too many players in this category every year, rather than advocate abolition of the rule altogether they could perhaps push for a change in the threshold to 200 games. Only 5% of players get to 200 whereas about 17% of players reach 100 games. It would reduce the number eligible (especially as not all 200 gamers have sons who play footy and are of AFL standard) and it would mean that the father would have to be a true icon of the game, not just a handy seniors player.

So for illustrative purposes, the WB have 25 players who have played 200 or more games. 17 of them are currently under 50 years old so they are in the age range where they might still have kids approaching draft age.

1619916268322.png
 

Next Waiting

Premiership Player
Jan 19, 2014
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That's largely correct.

However there is a legitimate argument, whether we agree with it or not. That's to preserve the "romance" of having the sons of famous players play with the same club their Dad was associated with. Originally it was a 50 game qualification but that was changed to 100 games a long time back (maybe 30-40 years ago?)

That argument is not about equity or fair access to the talent pool. It's more about maintaining a sense of tradition and romance in the game.

For those who think it's unfair and that there are too many players in this category every year, rather than advocate abolition of the rule altogether they could perhaps push for a change in the threshold to 200 games. Only 5% of players get to 200 whereas about 17% of players reach 100 games. It would reduce the number eligible (especially as not all 200 gamers have sons who play footy and are of AFL standard) and it would mean that the father would have to be a true icon of the game, not just a handy seniors player.

So for illustrative purposes, the WB have 25 players who have played 200 or more games. 17 of them are currently under 50 years old so they are in the age range where they might still have kids approaching draft age.

View attachment 1116693
That's not bad DW.
What about 150. That's 6 years on a list playing every game plus finals. 7 years and a few weeks off for injury and few finals or an ACL.
That's a good first choice player generally playing every game available for 6 or 7 seasons in a game of high attrition.
 

dogwatch

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That's not bad DW.
What about 150. That's 6 years on a list playing every game plus finals. 7 years and a few weeks off for injury and few finals or an ACL.
That's a good first choice player generally playing every game available for 6 or 7 seasons in a game of high attrition.
I was thinking about this after my earlier post. Those 5% (actually only 4.7%) include players who played for multiple clubs so by the time you narrow it down to 200 games with the one club my guess is it'd be close to 3.5%. Also the relatively recent advent of free agency opens a door for players to swap clubs after about 150-200 games.

Here are the percentages of players reaching the respective milestones - more accurately calculated than my earlier estimates. The 18.1% includes the 9.6% who went on to reach 150 games, ie they aren't mutually exclusive.

100 or more games 18.1%
150 or more games 9.6%
200or more games 4.7%

Here's the additional list of Bulldog players to have played 150-199 games.

1619920129089.png
 

Next Waiting

Premiership Player
Jan 19, 2014
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I was thinking about this after my earlier post. Those 5% (actually only 4.7%) include players who played for multiple clubs so by the time you narrow it down to 200 games with the one club my guess is it'd be close to 3.5%. Also the relatively recent advent of free agency opens a door for players to swap clubs after about 150-200 games.

Here are the percentages of players reaching the respective milestones - more accurately calculated than my earlier estimates. The 18.1% includes the 9.6% who went on to reach 150 games, ie they aren't mutually exclusive.

100 or more games 18.1%
150 or more games 9.6%
200or more games 4.7%

Here's the additional list of Bulldog players to have played 150-199 games.

View attachment 1116737
Macca and Bont need to get busy during the off-season....🤣
 

Sharpiesadog

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Sep 8, 2017
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That's largely correct.

However there is a legitimate argument, whether we agree with it or not. That's to preserve the "romance" of having the sons of famous players play with the same club their Dad was associated with. Originally it was a 50 game qualification but that was changed to 100 games a long time back (maybe 30-40 years ago?)

That argument is not about equity or fair access to the talent pool. It's more about maintaining a sense of tradition and romance in the game.

For those who think it's unfair and that there are too many players in this category every year, rather than advocate abolition of the rule altogether they could perhaps push for a change in the threshold to 200 games. Only 5% of players get to 200 whereas about 17% of players reach 100 games. It would reduce the number eligible (especially as not all 200 gamers have sons who play footy and are of AFL standard) and it would mean that the father would have to be a true icon of the game, not just a handy seniors player.

So for illustrative purposes, the WB have 25 players who have played 200 or more games. 17 of them are currently under 50 years old so they are in the age range where they might still have kids approaching draft age.

View attachment 1116693
It would be ironic if Cooney had a son we father son drafted. Would have to start liking the club again.
 

Pugz89

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Jun 29, 2015
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Outside of Gold Coast and GWS, every club has access to father sons. And even they will have them soon enough. 100 games is about right. It is such a minuscule amout as it is, why tamper with it?

Also, it's not necessarily blind luck either. Our development systems are pretty decent, you only need to look at our list to see that. Every club had a father-son system/academy where clubs put in work to help them develop. It's basically NGA with a footy romance touch.

If clubs don't want to prioritise it as much, then that's on them. Leave it as is.
 

Next Waiting

Premiership Player
Jan 19, 2014
4,207
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Outside of Gold Coast and GWS, every club has access to father sons. And even they will have them soon enough. 100 games is about right. It is such a minuscule amout as it is, why tamper with it?

Also, it's not necessarily blind luck either. Our development systems are pretty decent, you only need to look at our list to see that. Every club had a father-son system/academy where clubs put in work to help them develop. It's basically NGA with a footy romance touch.

If clubs don't want to prioritise it as much, then that's on them. Leave it as is.
What about 150 games (smaller pool) but only requires a 2nd rounder as opposed to currently having your hand forced in first.
 

Pugz89

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Jun 29, 2015
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What about 150 games (smaller pool) but only requires a 2nd rounder as opposed to currently having your hand forced in first.
I'd prefer more father sons in footy and happy for clubs to pay a fair price. The fact Pies are gonna get the #1 pick with late picks is dodgy, just like when we got Hunter and Libba cheap.

Besides, not all father sons are equal. Just look at Ayce Cordy compared to Libba. I think market price is fair.

100 games is at least five seasons on a list. That's nothing to sneeze at in its own right.
 

Next Waiting

Premiership Player
Jan 19, 2014
4,207
6,688
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
I'd prefer more father sons in footy and happy for clubs to pay a fair price. The fact Pies are gonna get the #1 pick with late picks is dodgy, just like when we got Hunter and Libba cheap.

Besides, not all father sons are equal. Just look at Ayce Cordy compared to Libba. I think market price is fair.

100 games is at least five seasons on a list. That's nothing to sneeze at in its own right.
I'm not too cut up either way. 100 is still a fair effort but 150 puts a bit more of a premium on it and we'd only have wasted a second on Ayce.
 

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