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Originally posted by RIPPER_46
Come and see me when Buckley kicks 7 goals in a winning state of origin team.
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Bit hard when they don't play it. Buckley is a good a player as there is is now. He is quite likely Collingwood's best ever and if not it would be splitting hairs. Brian Peake - and yes I did see him play - was not as good by a margin. In fact by the time Buckley retires I think he will have played more games at an extremely high level than any player ever. He will most likely play over 300 games and the number of average or worse games amonst that would struggle to fill a season. I reckon I saw more average games from Pasties in his short AFL career than in Buckley's long one.

As for 7 goals in a SOO, yes it's a good effort. Been done a bit but still a good effort. He's no Buckley though and to suggest at 80% he'd be close is a bit rich.
 
Originally posted by MarkT
He's no Buckley though and to suggest at 80% he'd be close is a bit rich.
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Pfft

Brian Peake made his East Fremantle debut on 29 April 1972 against Perth, and immediately caught the eye as much for his mature temperament and toughness as for his undoubted football ability.
Peake truly began to blossom as a player in 1973 when he made his interstate debut, and in the following season's winning grand final he was many observers' choice as best afield, although the Simpson Medal was split between team mate Gibellini and Pretty of Perth.

Quick, tough, aggressive, and displaying tremendous endurance, Brian Peake was a dominant force for East Fremantle throughout the 1970s, winning the club's fairest and best award an incredible 5 times in succession between 1976 and 1980, as well as a Sandover Medal in 1977. He was a prominent contributor to the club's 1979 grand final defeat of arch rivals South Fremantle, and his performances for Western Australia were also of the highest order. In one game against Victoria in 1978 he had 23 kicks compared to 2 by his illustrious opponent, dual Brownlow Medallist Keith Greig. At the 1979 State of Origin Carnival in Perth Peake skippered the Western Australians to victory and was rewarded with a Tassie Medal and captaincy of the All Australian team. He was also named an All Australian after the 1980 Adelaide Carnival.

Persuaded by these achievements that Peake was the finest footballer in the land Geelong officials enticed him to Kardinia Park in 1981 where he would play 66 games over the next 4 seasons.

Peake returned home in 1985 with plenty of football left in him, and immediately captained the Sharks to their 1st flag since 1979. The following year he was again chosen as skipper of the All Australian team after leading the Sandgropers to their 6th national title. A 6th Lynn Medal for East Fremantle club champion in 1987 was the icing on the cake towards the end of a remarkable career, which ultimately finished in 1990 with a brief 10 game stint with Perth
 
Richmond - Joel Bowden, MAtthew Richardson. Two handy players.

Our downfall was David Bourke who never became anything. Let's hope that Tom Roach does ok.
 
Originally posted by Rambo
Not necessarily, witnessed the game and from memory he was awarded definetley 2, maybe 3 down the ground free kicks.

He also had the oppurtunity to put the sharks infront with a set shot, 30 seconds on the clock and 20 metres out. Johnson choked under the pressure and south freo won the game
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big deal

the kid is 17, he missed a shot at goal

gee what a hack

:rolleyes:
 

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Originally posted by RIPPER_46
Persuaded by these achievements that Peake was the finest footballer in the land Geelong officials enticed him to Kardinia Park in 1981 where he would play 66 games over the next 4 seasons.

Peake returned home in 1985 with plenty of football left in him, and immediately captained the Sharks to their 1st flag since 1979. The following year he was again chosen as skipper of the All Australian team after leading the Sandgropers to their 6th national title. A 6th Lynn Medal for East Fremantle club champion in 1987 was the icing on the cake towards the end of a remarkable career, which ultimately finished in 1990 with a brief 10 game stint with Perth
 [/B]
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Geelong were clearly wrong. CLEARLY. His 4 years in the VFL PROVED CATAGORICALLY that he was not the best footballer in the VFL. He was so disappointing compared to his rep he was christened "PASTIES" and yet he goes back to the comp in which he dominated and all of a sudden he is a star again. It was similar story to Ebert. Superstar in his home state, came over to the VFL as a mature player and never played anywhere near his reputation. Both pretty good players but in the VFL not elite. Perhaps if they came over as 21 year olds they would have been better players but they didn't.

ALL of his bio as you posted is impressive but no more so than Buckley’s and his is in what is undoubtedly the best competition there has ever been at any time. While in the relative minor SANFL (and I am not being disrespectful to the SANFL) he won the Magary in a canter and actually was given BOG in the GF not was considered by some to have been BOG and didn't even get in the tie for first. Then he moved to the AFL and ran a place first up in Brisbane’s B&F and then won 5 (quite possibly soon to be 6 and still counting) club B&F's at Collingwood. He is still playing great football week in week out and is favorite for the Brownlow at the age of 30 after taking his 2nd GF B&F from 2 attempts in 2 leagues the year before.

Peake could play at his best but if he was as good as Buckley then I have never seen a game of football. How many of Peake’s games did you see out of interest?
 
Originally posted by Yze_Magic
big deal

the kid is 17, he missed a shot at goal

gee what a hack

:rolleyes:
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The actual point being made was the game everyone raves about he was actually given 3 of his 5 goals from off the ball discrepancies.

And when tested at the national carnival, he responded by achieving three possesions ... for the entire carnival.

He now kicks the occasional bag playing for his school side acquinus, a league that is far below standard of WAFL colts.

I hope for melbourne's sake they do not draft him, cos the football club will only go further backwards
 
Originally posted by Rambo
The actual point being made was the game everyone raves about he was actually given 3 of his 5 goals from off the ball discrepancies.

And when tested at the national carnival, he responded by achieving three possesions ... for the entire carnival.

He now kicks the occasional bag playing for his school side acquinus, a league that is far below standard of WAFL colts.

I hope for melbourne's sake they do not draft him, cos the football club will only go further backwards
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shouldnt have even played in the carnival

You know as well as I do he was coming off a shoulder reconstruction and they just sat him at FF

C. Johnson will be a star!!!
 
as will travis cloke. but wait, we have jason who i think is great, tough and plays for the jumper. cameron cloke shouldve been playing the last 5 games for the magpies, he has been farking unreal at willi. only his first year yeah. another 2 shaws this year, a cloke next year. hopefully daics can produce about 8 boys.
 
Originally posted by RIPPER_46

Persuaded by these achievements that Peake was the finest footballer in the land Geelong officials enticed him to Kardinia Park in 1981 where he would play 66 games over the next 4 seasons.
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Including 2 good games.

Think Graeme Hick. Fantastic player at the lower level but not good enough in elite company.

At least he had the guts to have a go, which makes him a better player than Barrie Robran or Michael Aish.
 
Originally posted by Yze_Magic
shouldnt have even played in the carnival

You know as well as I do he was coming off a shoulder reconstruction and they just sat him at FF

C. Johnson will be a star!!!
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Sat him at FF becasue that's the only position he can play.

And i don't see how an injured shoulder which came right atleast a month before the carnival could be used as an excuse for a poor showing.

The only C. Johnson who will be a star already plays for the lions
 

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Originally posted by MarkT
Geelong were clearly wrong. CLEARLY. His 4 years in the VFL PROVED CATAGORICALLY that he was not the best footballer in the VFL. He was so disappointing compared to his rep he was christened "PASTIES" and yet he goes back to the comp in which he dominated and all of a sudden he is a star again. It was similar story to Ebert. Superstar in his home state, came over to the VFL as a mature player and never played anywhere near his reputation. Both pretty good players but in the VFL not elite. Perhaps if they came over as 21 year olds they would have been better players but they didn't.

ALL of his bio as you posted is impressive but no more so than Buckley’s and his is in what is undoubtedly the best competition there has ever been at any time. While in the relative minor SANFL (and I am not being disrespectful to the SANFL) he won the Magary in a canter and actually was given BOG in the GF not was considered by some to have been BOG and didn't even get in the tie for first. Then he moved to the AFL and ran a place first up in Brisbane’s B&F and then won 5 (quite possibly soon to be 6 and still counting) club B&F's at Collingwood. He is still playing great football week in week out and is favorite for the Brownlow at the age of 30 after taking his 2nd GF B&F from 2 attempts in 2 leagues the year before.

Peake could play at his best but if he was as good as Buckley then I have never seen a game of football. How many of Peake’s games did you see out of interest?
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Wayne Carey has played a dozen or so games for the Camry Crows and I conclude that he is an injury prone forward who can be useful on his day.

With Peake it may be fair if he was in Geelong for 4 years....Ebert played football for nearly 20 years. You draw a conclusion taking a sample of 1 year, and ignore everything else he did. Note : Just because you did not see a player does not mean he did not exist.
 
Originally posted by Weaver
Chris Johnson was injured in the first quarter of the first match of the championships. His form there can't be used against him.
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don't know where u got that information from or you just made it up from the top of your head becasue it is not true. Played the first and second game before getting dropped for the final game.

In future if you dont know wat ur on about, best to not say anything regarding the topic
 
Originally posted by Rambo
don't know where u got that information from or you just made it up from the top of your head becasue it is not true. Played the first and second game before getting dropped for the final game.

In future if you dont know wat ur on about, best to not say anything regarding the topic
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He was nowhere near 100% fit. Shouldn't have been out there according to CC.
 
Originally posted by Rambo
don't know where u got that information from or you just made it up from the top of your head becasue it is not true. Played the first and second game before getting dropped for the final game.

In future if you dont know wat ur on about, best to not say anything regarding the topic
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I was there and saw him taken from from the field at Optus. He was slammed into the ground in a tackle from memoery. I'll trust my own eyes over your vendetta.
 

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Firstly I'll say that I don't directly know CJ, but I have heard quite a few reports on him from people close to him.

Johnson injured his shoulder in the 3rd match of the AIS/AFL International Rules series against Ireland earlier in the year. He carried the shoulder injury into the under 18 championships and didn't get the reconstruction done because he is the captain of Aquinas College who wanted him to play and also because he wanted to play in the championships. It was very touch and go whether he was going to make the trip to Victoria, as he was not anywhere near 100% fit.

He's having his shoulder reconstructed at a time that is convenient for him to complete his school exam commitments.

Also, he is not only a full forward despite playing most of his junior footy there. This is likely an indication of the weakness of WA underage footy. In fact he played, to the best of my knowledge, in the backline in the Australian under 17 side where he was named in the best players in 2 out of the 3 games in which he was fit.

So, Rambo, you are making your judgements on this 'hack' based on one game of WAFL Colts (in which he was named BOG with 5 goals), hearing about him kicking bags for his school and playing poorly in the championships (in which the delivery that he received was below sub-standard!), with the latter two being with a shoulder that requires reconstruction? Hmmmm, interesting.
 
Originally posted by Vindaloo Mat
Wayne Carey has played a dozen or so games for the Camry Crows and I conclude that he is an injury prone forward who can be useful on his day.
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I would agree with that. Then again he is old. Peake was not as old and when he went back to WA he was one of their best again. The analogy with Buckley is actually enlightening. It too Buckley 2 years post Magary to be a real front line damaging AFL player. That is the gap at that time in the two comps. Emphaiss on at that time.
Originally posted by Vindaloo Mat
With Peake it may be fair if he was in Geelong for 4 years....Ebert played football for nearly 20 years. You draw a conclusion taking a sample of 1 year, and ignore everything else he did. Note : Just because you did not see a player does not mean he did not exist.
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Fair call re 1 year from 20 but I did see Ebert. I saw a lot of SANFL footy at the time. I was a close follower of Port and a good mate at school was a mad ex South Aussie Woodville supporter. I Know Ebert was a very good footballer but the fact is that there was a gap in standard in the 2 comps and had he come to Victoria as a 21 year old we would know how good he was and it would have been better than he ultimately was. Ditto Cornes. I won't even talk about Davies - not that good. FWIW I have never said ebert was not good.

Just on the gap uin the various comps in the 70's and 80's, if you consider all the differences in population and resources is not enough, then factor in just 10% of the better SANFL & WAFL player taken from their comp and incerted into the VFL and how much difference does that alone make? That was a clear difference in standard. That makes it very hard to translate form and performances. I don't disrepect the SANFL or the WAFL but anyone who cannot acknowlege that there was a clear differential in the number of elite players and the quality of the middle and botom level players is delusional IMO. That doesn't mean Robran et al were not great players.
 
Originally posted by MarkT

Just on the gap uin the various comps in the 70's and 80's, if you consider all the differences in population and resources is not enough, then factor in just 10% of the better SANFL & WAFL player taken from their comp and incerted into the VFL and how much difference does that alone make? That was a clear difference in standard. That makes it very hard to translate form and performances. I don't disrepect the SANFL or the WAFL but anyone who cannot acknowlege that there was a clear differential in the number of elite players and the quality of the middle and botom level players is delusional IMO. That doesn't mean Robran et al were not great players.
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this one has been done quite a bit....here is where it ends up for mine:

1. On average the VFL was stronger than the SANFL

2. The best players in the SANFL were just as good as the best players from the VFL.

3. The worst players in the SANFL were worse than the worse players in the VFL.

4. From time to time the best team in the land was probably not in Victoria although more often than not the best team in Victoria would have been the best in Australia. Why ?....although talent is proportional to population it is not evennly distributed, it goes in clumps. So it in fact would be most unusual if the top side in the country was Victorian all the time. Pure statistics will tell you that it won't be....case in point India do not dominate world cricket, and nor do Australia all the time...West Indies circa 1975 a good example.

5. Similarly, more often than not the best player in the country in any given position was Victorian. From time to time the best player in the land would have been South Australian (or WA or where-ever). Again, a look at the present talent in the AFL will tell you that.

6. Your point about the top 10-15% is quite correct. As soon as you take the best from SA and put them in Vic all the above breaks down. This happened much earlier in WA than SA IMHO. I take SANFL results on the national stage with a grain of salt after 1985 as in 1986 it was clear that normally if you were a champion you were in the VFL. Prior to that it is a different story. Take 1975, just ten years earlier. The talent simply did not move at that time. I will give you Blight....name another 10 top line SA players playing in the VFL in 1975. So the date may be 1985 or 1980 but for 100 years of football players generally changed comps because they changed cities for work....and therefore the above holds.


The benchmark is no doubt Victoria. If I want to prove that Robran or Ebert was the best player in the country in 1972 then the first thing I must do is prove he was better than the best Victorian. Same way as every comparison thread in here today for forwards is X vs Tredrea. But just as statistics prove conclusively that Victoria was on average the highest standard comp, they also prove that it was not always the case.

My own conclusion therefore is that players in the SANFL are comparable to players in the VFL. Not the same, or always better, but I do not have a problem in comparing Robran with Matthews. I don't believe that Matthews was the better player because he played in the VFL. That is simplistic, and is sad because it ignores all the fantastic football which took place outside of the 12 Melbourne VFL teams for 130 years.

VM
 
Originally posted by Spunjy
I am sorry if I just used his initials to save time. I will call everyone by their full names in the future.

BTW, thank you for addressing the big issues of my post.
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Not addressing the issues?
They've been addressed in my previous posts on this thread along with Rambo's posts. (Rambo hitting the nail on the head each time)

He shouldn't of been at the championships. Shoulders only get better after a reconstruction. (Just had one myself) Old man Johnson must of pulled a few strings to get him into the final squad of 25. People like Chris Johnson, as well as the likes of Glenn Rush, made the WA final squad of 25, purely on the previous year, making the All Australian side. Them two made no impact at the championships (nor this season) and still living on a name which they've pathed during earlier junior football.
 

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