Federal ICAC STAT!!!

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kranky al

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<<<
“Most voters, I think, are fed up with election bribes and the whiff of low-level corruption that they exude, which corrodes public trust in the system of government.”
~ Anne Twomey Professor of Constitutional Law

An ICAC is but one piece (admittedly an absolutely integral one) piece in the puzzle of anti-corruption.

The other vital one is an independently enforceable code of conduct for ministers.

Ministerial standards are not fit for purpose.

Pork-barrelling at an ‘industrial scale’ in NSW, ICAC forum told>>
 

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kranky al

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kranky al

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kranky al

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SBD Gonzalez

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Kidding, right?
An ICAC is but one piece (admittedly an absolutely integral one) piece in the puzzle of anti-corruption.

The other vital one is an independently enforceable code of conduct for ministers.

Ministerial standards are not fit for purpose.
The other is political donations reform.

Which the Greens have been loudly calling for, for years. And which Labor just doesn’t want to talk about at all.

I would be very happy if the Greens applied their new senate muscle to Australia finally getting this muck cleaned up and above board.
 

kranky al

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The other is political donations reform.

Which the Greens have been loudly calling for, for years. And which Labor just doesn’t want to talk about at all.

I would be very happy if the Greens applied their new senate muscle to Australia finally getting this muck cleaned up and above board.
Absolutely
 

Rob R

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The other is political donations reform.

Which the Greens have been loudly calling for, for years. And which Labor just doesn’t want to talk about at all.

I would be very happy if the Greens applied their new senate muscle to Australia finally getting this muck cleaned up and above board.
Agree fully and add in jobs for the boys after they quit. Junior public servants have to jump through hoops at the slightest hint of working for a contractor they have met before, senior staff can just walk out the day after signing a contract with that one company and work for them. Even worse senior Canberra fat cats can go on secondment to a contractor to "learn" from them, help them write contract proposal and then return to evaluate the proposals and manage the contract especially in IT.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Pie eyed

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Eh, I find him ok
Answering or even changing the question he puts to interviewees, before they can, is unforgivable in his position.
To sooner he gets the arse the better.
He always tries to be the smartest person in the room, which only works if he ever questions a Liberal pollie.
 

Demonic Ascent

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Answering or even changing the question he puts to interviewees, before they can, is unforgivable in his position.
To sooner he gets the arse the better.
He always tries to be the smartest person in the room, which only works if he ever questions a Liberal pollie.
Yeah fair enough, maybe I just haven't watched him enough
 

Power Raid

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A federal ICAC with teeth and transparency is my #1 voting issue now, along with NDIS.

I agree with teeth but I’m not sure about transparency

I feel investigations should be carried out privately and referred to the correct authority if prosecution is recommended

We have court rooms for transparency and demarcation for controls


I just want to avoid ICAC being a political weapon to damage opponents without guilt, findings or fair process
 

kranky al

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I agree with teeth but I’m not sure about transparency

I feel investigations should be carried out privately and referred to the correct authority if prosecution is recommended

We have court rooms for transparency and demarcation for controls


I just want to avoid ICAC being a political weapon to damage opponents without guilt, findings or fair process
I get that.

However:

Seems to me that i see s**t all the time that should end with people in jail that never does… the royal commission into banking being the blinding example of the most egregiously glaringly obvious one.


The rc handed in its findings in 2019 - as far as im aware despite billions of dollars in fraud, noone is getting jail time so far:

<<
There have been few, if any, real enforcement fights," she said on Thursday, because banks and institutions like insurers have largely admitted they broke the law ahead of the proceedings.

Of the 13 referrals, six were dealt with in civil cases and only two became criminal cases led by the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions.

Five of those are completed and three are ongoing, with a combined total of civil penalties hitting $79 million.>>

Source: ASIC launches last banking royal commission case, but almost half did not make it to court - ABC News

The rich and the powerful get away with their companies paying fines whilst aboriginal folk go to jail for stealing food.

There is zero incentive to change behaviour when you have executives making decisions that earn them huge bonuses and stock etc - when the only risk is for the company - not them…to maybe have to pay it back along with a trifling fine…. If they get caught…. Then if the government eventually caves to an rc…dragged kicking crying and screaming….

The people whove committed this fraud dont get their bonuses taken off them, dont see any punishment for their behaviour and so the next generation of bankers see this and act accordingly.

I have zero doubt that there is very very little political will to prosecute these criminals so a slap on the dick with a wet lettuce leaf and off they go.

Given this: Whats the chance of a politician or public servant being prosecuted from an unpublicised recommendation from an ICAC I wonder?

History would suggest a pretty low probability.


We need complete reforms of all procedures leading to convictions and sentencing for white collar crime and political corruption that inflicts a real deterrent to those who might perpetrate these crimes.

In the western australian goldfields there is special legislation for stealing as a servant to discourage employees nicking gold off their employers… id like to see something like this employed for pollies and white collar criminals that means people who steal or defraud others of massive amounts of money are punished in accordance with the harm done to their victims.

20 years in jail would be a good place to start.
 
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Kwality

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I get that.

However:

Seems to me that i see s**t all the time that should end with people in jail that never does… the royal commission into banking being the blinding example of the most egregiously glaringly obvious one.


The rc handed in its findings in 2019 - as far as im aware despite billions of dollars in fraud, noone is getting jail time so far:

<<
There have been few, if any, real enforcement fights," she said on Thursday, because banks and institutions like insurers have largely admitted they broke the law ahead of the proceedings.

Of the 13 referrals, six were dealt with in civil cases and only two became criminal cases led by the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions.

Five of those are completed and three are ongoing, with a combined total of civil penalties hitting $79 million.>>

Source: ASIC launches last banking royal commission case, but almost half did not make it to court - ABC News

The rich and the powerful get away with their companies paying fines whilst aboriginal folk go to jail for stealing food.

There is zero incentive to change behaviour when you have executives making decisions that earn them huge bonuses and stock etc - when the only risk is for the company - not them…to maybe have to pay it back along with a trifling fine…. If they get caught…. Then if the government eventually caves to an rc…dragged kicking crying and screaming….

The people whove committed this fraud dont get their bonuses taken off them, dont see any punishment for their behaviour and so the next generation of bankers see this and act accordingly.

I have zero doubt that there is very very little political will to prosecute these criminals so a slap on the dick with a wet lettuce leaf and off they go.

Given this: Whats the chance of a politician or public servant being prosecuted from an unpublicised recommendation from an ICAC I wonder?

History would suggest a pretty low probability.


We need complete reforms of all procedures leading to convictions and sentencing for white collar crime and political corruption that inflicts a real deterrent to those who might perpetrate these crimes.

In the western australian goldfields there is special legislation for stealing as a servant to discourage employees nicking gold off their employers… id like to see something like this employed for pollies and white collar criminals that means people who steal or defraud others of massive amounts of money are punished in accordance with the harm done to their victims.

20 years in jail would be a good place to start.

I agree in principle. People who are sent to jail have their day in court & have to be proven guilty.

The claims of corruption by the Morrison Government have been many & various & the court of public opinion has found them ALL guilty - take any of them as an example of how you would see them treated by your changes.
 

Pie eyed

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I agree in principle. People who are sent to jail have their day in court & have to be proven guilty.

The claims of corruption by the Morrison Government have been many & various & the court of public opinion has found them ALL guilty - take any of them as an example of how you would see them treated by your changes.
Why don't you suggest a format for a Federal ICAC.

Realy it is a basic premiss.
Break the law. Go to court.
Where ICAC has problems is navigating the "special laws" politician have given themselves to avoid this.
 

Kwality

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Why don't you suggest a format for a Federal ICAC.

Realy it is a basic premiss.
Break the law. Go to court.
Where ICAC has problems is navigating the "special laws" politician have given themselves to avoid this.
I would look for an example of a similar body doing the job & mod it for local conditions.

None of the State versions seem a place to start.

Finding guilt, proving the claimed crime was committed: proof is the difference between an allegation & jail cell (sic).
 

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