Federal ICAC STAT!!!

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Pie eyed

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I would look for an example of a similar body doing the job & mod it for local conditions.

None of the State versions seem a place to start.

Finding guilt, proving the claimed crime was committed: proof is the difference between an allegation & jail cell (sic).
I agree on the State versions.
 

Power Raid

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I get that.

However:

Seems to me that i see s**t all the time that should end with people in jail that never does… the royal commission into banking being the blinding example of the most egregiously glaringly obvious one.


The rc handed in its findings in 2019 - as far as im aware despite billions of dollars in fraud, noone is getting jail time so far:

<<
There have been few, if any, real enforcement fights," she said on Thursday, because banks and institutions like insurers have largely admitted they broke the law ahead of the proceedings.

Of the 13 referrals, six were dealt with in civil cases and only two became criminal cases led by the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions.

Five of those are completed and three are ongoing, with a combined total of civil penalties hitting $79 million.>>

Source: ASIC launches last banking royal commission case, but almost half did not make it to court - ABC News

The rich and the powerful get away with their companies paying fines whilst aboriginal folk go to jail for stealing food.

There is zero incentive to change behaviour when you have executives making decisions that earn them huge bonuses and stock etc - when the only risk is for the company - not them…to maybe have to pay it back along with a trifling fine…. If they get caught…. Then if the government eventually caves to an rc…dragged kicking crying and screaming….

The people whove committed this fraud dont get their bonuses taken off them, dont see any punishment for their behaviour and so the next generation of bankers see this and act accordingly.

I have zero doubt that there is very very little political will to prosecute these criminals so a slap on the dick with a wet lettuce leaf and off they go.

Given this: Whats the chance of a politician or public servant being prosecuted from an unpublicised recommendation from an ICAC I wonder?

History would suggest a pretty low probability.


We need complete reforms of all procedures leading to convictions and sentencing for white collar crime and political corruption that inflicts a real deterrent to those who might perpetrate these crimes.

In the western australian goldfields there is special legislation for stealing as a servant to discourage employees nicking gold off their employers… id like to see something like this employed for pollies and white collar criminals that means people who steal or defraud others of massive amounts of money are punished in accordance with the harm done to their victims.

20 years in jail would be a good place to start.

Agree

I think we need to take a step back here and ask ourselves, what kind of people are we attracting to politics and are they of good character to start with. Personally I don't believe we are.

I've had the "luxury" of serving on boards and or working closely with ex-politicians and I'd say without exception, they all deserve to be in jail.



I am on record of saying we have "personality" over "policy" and for me this is a major issue. If politicians had to write a prospectus regarding policy and they carried the same civil and criminal liabilities as ordinary corporate directors, this is at least a start.

Further having to state "don't screw the crew" is way behind the times and "you own shares directly" is only 30 years behind corporate policies in places like the big 4



I would like to see ICAC to have very broad powers and even investigate misleading and deceptive statements. I'll pick on renewable energy as an example; being a statement "Clean energy is cheap energy" which in context of resolving the immediate energy supply issue, would be misleading and deceptive. As we know renewables can produce cheaply but as it is unreliable and can't be stored, it can not supply cheap energy reliably.

but this example just highlights the real issue........we all know the statement is misleading and deceptive, yet we want to hear it. So is it the politician at fault for lying or the electorate for voting in someone who wants to hear the lies?
 

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Power Raid

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I get that.

However:

Seems to me that i see s**t all the time that should end with people in jail that never does… the royal commission into banking being the blinding example of the most egregiously glaringly obvious one.


The rc handed in its findings in 2019 - as far as im aware despite billions of dollars in fraud, noone is getting jail time so far:

<<
There have been few, if any, real enforcement fights," she said on Thursday, because banks and institutions like insurers have largely admitted they broke the law ahead of the proceedings.

Of the 13 referrals, six were dealt with in civil cases and only two became criminal cases led by the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions.

Five of those are completed and three are ongoing, with a combined total of civil penalties hitting $79 million.>>

Source: ASIC launches last banking royal commission case, but almost half did not make it to court - ABC News

The rich and the powerful get away with their companies paying fines whilst aboriginal folk go to jail for stealing food.

There is zero incentive to change behaviour when you have executives making decisions that earn them huge bonuses and stock etc - when the only risk is for the company - not them…to maybe have to pay it back along with a trifling fine…. If they get caught…. Then if the government eventually caves to an rc…dragged kicking crying and screaming….

The people whove committed this fraud dont get their bonuses taken off them, dont see any punishment for their behaviour and so the next generation of bankers see this and act accordingly.

I have zero doubt that there is very very little political will to prosecute these criminals so a slap on the dick with a wet lettuce leaf and off they go.

Given this: Whats the chance of a politician or public servant being prosecuted from an unpublicised recommendation from an ICAC I wonder?

History would suggest a pretty low probability.


We need complete reforms of all procedures leading to convictions and sentencing for white collar crime and political corruption that inflicts a real deterrent to those who might perpetrate these crimes.

In the western australian goldfields there is special legislation for stealing as a servant to discourage employees nicking gold off their employers… id like to see something like this employed for pollies and white collar criminals that means people who steal or defraud others of massive amounts of money are punished in accordance with the harm done to their victims.

20 years in jail would be a good place to start.

what I also find interesting is:
come to WA, as an ordinary person, without a G2G and watch footy..........go to jail 3 months
come to WA, as head of Oz Covid task force, on a jolly flight with you son................yeah no worries

make a statement as premier, we will only use the WA health app for health, to protect privacy............then start arresting people tracing them on the app
do the same as a company and misuse data...........then bring out your cheque book


we definitely have one rule for the ordinary and another for those making the rules
 

kranky al

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what I also find interesting is:
come to WA, as an ordinary person, without a G2G and watch footy..........go to jail 3 months
come to WA, as head of Oz Covid task force, on a jolly flight with you son................yeah no worries

make a statement as premier, we will only use the WA health app for health, to protect privacy............then start arresting people tracing them on the app
do the same as a company and misuse data...........then bring out your cheque book


we definitely have one rule for the ordinary and another for those making the rules
Yeah not a fan
 

Gough

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Looking forward to the Libs criticising the NSW ICAC over the charging of Obeid, Kelly and Tripodi.
 

kranky al

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<<<
The findings of today’s Operation Watts report, the product of a joint investigation by IBAC and the Ombudsman following branch-stacking allegations first reported by this masthead in June 2020, were damning not only for the individuals involved, but for Victoria’s integrity framework.

The report is a clarion call for reform, criticising Victoria as a “laggard” in parliamentary integrity and lamenting the fact that the parliament has failed to dedicate more time to solving the problem of alleged bad behaviour by our politicians.



Play Video

Premier press conference


Premier press conference

Play video
53:52

Premier press conference​

Grim foot and mouth warning for Aussie herds




Victoria Premier Daniel Andrews and Attorney-General Jaclyn Symes have held a press conference after the IBAC and Ombudsman released their Operation Watts report
The premier has accepted all of the report’s recommendations, and committed to action. Some of the key recommendations include a new cross-party parliamentary ethics committee, and an independent parliamentary integrity commissioner to investigate breaches of parliamentary ethical obligations.
Significant reforms are also proposed in respect of the role and management of electorate officers: these include a widening of the kinds of conduct banned by the Parliamentary Administration Act’s prohibition on party-specific activities, and a prohibition on party-specific work in the electorate officers’ code of conduct and the ministerial staff code of conduct.>>>


Icac is needed - doesnt matter what side you are on….. politicians need policemen just as much as the rest of us do.
 
Last edited:

Kwality

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Looking forward to the Libs criticising the NSW ICAC over the charging of Obeid, Kelly and Tripodi.

A very poor understanding of the criticism of ICAC - these guys are facing the Courts as needs to happen. ICAC rarely delivers, IBAC has yet to get a politician into Court, plenty of corrupt officials in Government, the odd policeman.
 

Gethelred

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<<<
The findings of today’s Operation Watts report, the product of a joint investigation by IBAC and the Ombudsman following branch-stacking allegations first reported by this masthead in June 2020, were damning not only for the individuals involved, but for Victoria’s integrity framework.

The report is a clarion call for reform, criticising Victoria as a “laggard” in parliamentary integrity and lamenting the fact that the parliament has failed to dedicate more time to solving the problem of alleged bad behaviour by our politicians.



Play Video

Premier press conference


Premier press conference

Play video
53:52

Premier press conference​

Grim foot and mouth warning for Aussie herds




Victoria Premier Daniel Andrews and Attorney-General Jaclyn Symes have held a press conference after the IBAC and Ombudsman released their Operation Watts report
The premier has accepted all of the report’s recommendations, and committed to action. Some of the key recommendations include a new cross-party parliamentary ethics committee, and an independent parliamentary integrity commissioner to investigate breaches of parliamentary ethical obligations.
Significant reforms are also proposed in respect of the role and management of electorate officers: these include a widening of the kinds of conduct banned by the Parliamentary Administration Act’s prohibition on party-specific activities, and a prohibition on party-specific work in the electorate officers’ code of conduct and the ministerial staff code of conduct.>>>


Icac is needed - doesnt matter what side you are on….. politicians need policemen just as much as the rest of us do.
Could you please post the link to that article in an edit, to ensure the article gets the clicks necessary for those who look at such things to know that we (the public) take institutional integrity seriously?
 

kranky al

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More: The signs are good for anti-corruption, PM’s next big-ticket item


Note the bolded bit.

Say you were corrupt as funk without actually saying it.


<<<
Prime Minister Anthony Albanese is set for his next big legislative win, giving Australia a federal anti-corruption commission with teeth.

The only question is how sharp those teeth will be, but there will certainly be a watchdog with real bite.

Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus has embarked on a frenzied round of negotiations with the Greens and sympathetic independents in both houses of the Parliament ahead of presenting a bill when Parliament resumes in the first week of September.

The independent member for the Victorian regional seat of Indi, Helen Haines, who presented a thwarted anti-corruption bill to the last Parliament, is impressed by Dreyfus’s collaboration and commitment to the cause, though she says there are a couple of unresolved issues.

Greens Senator David Shoebridge is well credentialled to deal with the issue.
The Greens’ new senator from New South Wales, David Shoebridge says there will be a strong bill, the argument will be “whether we get 100 per cent, 90 or 80 per cent of what we think is needed”.

Shoebridge is particularly well credentialled to be at the table.

He was the force behind setting up the multi-party Public Accountability Committee established in the Upper House of the Macquarie Street parliament, which has been vigorously pursuing the Barilaro New York Trade Commissioner imbroglio.

He was the committee’s chair before quitting to run for the Senate in May, and says a majority-led government committee would never have delved into the unfolding scandal of a job for its mate.

In politics the numbers are everything and some on the crossbench worry Dreyfus may face more pushback from within his own Labor caucus than from them.

It is true the experience of former NSW Liberal premier Nick Greiner before the Independent Commission Against Corruption fuels the concerns of some in the parliamentary party.

Greiner was found to be corrupt in the early days of ICAC, his own creation, only to be later exonerated by the Supreme Court.

Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus has been collaborating widely with independents and the Greens.
But no one in Labor is wary enough to scuttle the whole project, especially in light of Albanese’s campaign promise to have a strong commission legislated by the end of the year.

Dreyfus has had discussions with his Opposition counterpart Julian Leeser, but the Coalition is sticking to its version of a commission that is more a protection racket for politicians than a genuine watchdog.

Leeser told Sky News early last month that the pre-election model was still their policy and that he was waiting to see what Labor proposed before responding further.

Liberal Party sources say there is little chance of the Coalition party room agreeing to public hearings or retrospective investigations, both considered essential and non-negotiable by the government and its crossbench supporters.>>>
 

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Donakebab

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Stuart Robert has always been in the future ICACs crosshairs, but Four Corners just blew him up before they had a chance.
 

Rob R

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If public servants spent taxpayer money and getting sponsors to fund a party, there would justifiably be hell to pay but our pollies seem to have no problems doing both. Shows how corrupt and out of touch both major parties are


On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

campbell

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If public servants spent taxpayer money and getting sponsors to fund a party, there would justifiably be hell to pay but our pollies seem to have no problems doing both. Shows how corrupt and out of touch both major parties are


On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app
Huh.....
 

HairyO

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Cross bench not happy that Labor are going for a watered down ICAC. No surprise that now they are in power they dont was a far reaching watchdog keeping an eye on things.

 

Kwality

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'ICAC cannot hold a public hearing unless the chief commissioner and at least one of the two other commissioners agrees.

There is no such restriction in the national scheme.

Without this check, which is outlined in section 6(2) of the ICAC Act, far too much power will be vested exclusively in the hands of the commissioner who leads the NACC.'

'..... if Peter Dutton and the federal opposition believe this scheme will not involve show trials, they should think again.'

 

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