Society/Culture Feminism - 2017 Thread - Pt II

[Chief]

So according to some prominent feminists, an all-female remake of Lord of the Flies is a silly idea because females wouldn't become savages when removed from civilization. I get confused about whether gender roles are supposed to be entirely constructed by society or not. Wouldn't a group of females removed from society behave in the same way that males removed from society would? They're essentially saying that men and women are inherently different, but isn't that something they usually argue against?

When Golding wrote that book, gender roles were much more clearly defined and you could assume that young boys would act differently than young girls if thrust into a similar situation in the 1950s. But 60+ years later, are boys and girls so different that we should expect a significant difference in the way they'd respond to being isolated from the rest of the world? If it's believable that a group of boys today would turn into savages when left to their own devices, why isn't it believable for a group of girls to behave in a similar way?

What does it tell us about how the modern feminist thinks, when they believe that women are inherently more suited to running a society than men (among other things), but there's nothing at which men are inherently better? Seems like a lot of modern feminists want to simultaneously claim that women are different and better than men but also the same and equal, depending on the situation.

I think you have the wrong end of a few of the general ideas.

Also, links? We don't know what you're actually talking about.


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[fleabitten]

I think you have the wrong end of a few of the general ideas.

Also, links? We don't know what you're actually talking about.

This is the story I came across today that inspired the post: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...es-misses-the-point-critics-say-idUSKCN1BB30H

Plans for an all-female movie of William Golding’s young adult classic novel “Lord of the Flies” were slammed on Thursday for missing the point of the dark and deadly tale of bullying among teenage boys stranded on a desert island.

The news of the proposed remake, which Hollywood trade publication Deadline.com reported on Wednesday was in the early stages of development, became a top trending story on Twitter.

Author and feminist Roxane Gay said an all-female version of the story made no sense because “the plot of that book wouldn’t happen with all women.”

After I saw that one, I googled for more info and saw this: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/08/lord-of-the-flies-female-remake

Gender-flipped remakes aren’t a new concept in Hollywood, but they have been popping up with surprising regularity. Last year brought us the Ghostbusters redux that made trolls cry crocodile tears. Next year will bring us the glamorous Ocean’s Eleven remake, starring SandraBullock, Cate Blanchett, Mindy Kaling, Rihanna, and more. One hopeful day, Jillian Bell’s gender-swapped version of Splash, co-starring Channing Tatum,will hit our screens. All of these films make perfect sense, re-fitting modern classics to a female perspective and, frankly, giving actresses juicy roles that typically go to their male colleagues. But not every story makes sense to gender-flip. Particularly if that story is William Golding’s classic Lord of the Flies, a vicious tale about a barbaric boy-made society.

Right, because a team of elite female criminals doesn't stretch the imagination at all, but some girls lost on a deserted island getting a bit primal? As if!!

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Oh ok, so in your original rant when you said some prominent feminists said it wouldn't happen, what you actually meant was that one feminist said this. You do know that there a shitload of different streams of feminism and talking about 'feminism' as a unified body of thought shows you know very little, yes?

Do you want more gender realism from your ghost fighting movies where they cross the streams to kill more giant marshmallows?

 

[Illinois Nazi]

I actually think an all-female Lord Of The Flies could be a very interesting thing if done well. The behaviour of a group of girls in that situation wouldn't be the same as the boys in the original story, but would be quite brutal in its own way. Less physical violence, more psychological. Exclusion of individuals, cliques, battles over who is in charge - it would all happen but in a different way. I'd like to see that film.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

I actually think an all-female Lord Of The Flies could be a very interesting thing if done well. The behaviour of a group of girls in that situation wouldn't be the same as the boys in the original story, but would be quite brutal in its own way. Less physical violence, more psychological. Exclusion of individuals, cliques, battles over who is in charge - it would all happen but in a different way. I'd like to see that film.

I'd certainly rather watch that than a female Ghostbusters or Oceans 11.

 

[Jobe Watson]

I actually think an all-female Lord Of The Flies could be a very interesting thing if done well. The behaviour of a group of girls in that situation wouldn't be the same as the boys in the original story, but would be quite brutal in its own way. Less physical violence, more psychological. Exclusion of individuals, cliques, battles over who is in charge - it would all happen but in a different way. I'd like to see that film.

We already have that movie. It's called Mean Girls.

 

[Illinois Nazi]

We already have that movie. It's called Mean Girls.

Sorry, I didn't realise every theme in film is only allowed to be covered once.

 

[dumb]

while i think re-casting females in previously male-held film roles is an interesting move and a potential way of revisiting and refreshing these movies, there's a few pros and cons.
we need to consider the way it happens and how it actually does female-kind any favours.
the current political climate is certainly points to some receptiveness to this, but the movie-going public is sequel weary, and in time simply retooling old movies, as refreshing as it might be will eventually be viewed with the same cynicism as our current day sequelitis... it points to writers short of ideas, and why are new movies with female leads not being made (i find the whole i-get-my-role-models-from-films thing pretty tedious, but we should be seeing plenty of lead females regardless) ?

i'm not a film historian by any means, but there's echoes of blaxploitation cinema. there are sections of the public that will eat this up, but are these reprised roles merely masculinised females, or their own people - are they playing females or just females playing male roles? to set itself apart from white culture blaxploitation became mired in black stereotypes.
it can become tricky to portray the individuality of cultures and people without reverting to stereotypes... or you could gloss over what makes them who they are to avoid stereotypes, rendering their culture and identity irrelevant. it's a fine line, especially when there are hordes of viewers ready to leap on the perceived injustice you've done while making this movie.
but, like blaxploitation, it could pave the way for a more even spread of actors.

it would be interesting to see if lesser known actors would be cast. would hollywood shy away from intersectionality (take the ghostbusters movie - 3 well-known white actors, and a black lady playing a stereotyped black lady), or is there too much money at stake?
deep down i think we know that looking for hollywood movie studios to lead the way for a political cause is asking for trouble, unless it happens to be a movie that would coincidentally make them a lot of money. we need to be looking somewhere with a bit more artistic and cultural integrity... and well, for some people if it's not released at their local cinema it's never been released at all, if you know what i mean.

as for a female lord of the flies... the feminist author is conflating a couple of different things. her suspension of disbelief and her dissatisfaction of the females filling those roles.
she's projecting her inability to suspend disbelief onto the wider audience. the suspension of disbelief would be gained by how the movie is built, rather than starting at the chaos. odd statement.
that said, for many feminists the people and events on the island would be very hard to idealize. you may angle for more female actors in movies, and not even need them to play heroic roles either, but to watch the females on the island descend into the sort of stuff males are generally accused of being guilty of could be a deeply unsatisfying movie. the regular movie-goer wouldn't have such a problem.
it's very much analogous to the old 'we need more women in the boardroom'... glamorous equality is so much easier to sell than pushing for equal representation in garbage collection.

elizabeth moss from top of the lake is still my go-to for recommending strong female characters. not set in an alternate universe, no superpowers, has flaws, but has integrity and gets the job done.

 

[fleabitten]

We already have that movie. It's called Mean Girls.

Mean Girls takes place within one of the most structured parts of society there is. Put the Mean Girls on an island where there are no teachers, parents or other authority figures to restrain the toxic femininity and it goes to a whole new level.

 

[Chief]

another pathetic cowardly excuse femo's hide behind

Almost the worst post in this thread.

Why even post? Why not just keep that in your head?


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[La Dolce Vita]

Almost the worst post in this thread.

Why even post? Why not just keep that in your head?


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you don't like the truth i see

This is a deliberate tactic used by all feminists to hide the fact they are a bigoted hate group

oh she is just an extremist..
she does not represent all feminists
is just a different stream
all feminists are not like that
'kill all men' is just satire
blah blah blah

cowards...like all hate groups

yeah yeah feminism is about equality.. Funny how not one poster has provided one smidgen of evidence to support this absolute tripe

your posts are beyond embarrassing

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

you don't like the truth i see

This is a deliberate tactic used by all feminists to hide the fact they are a bigoted hate group

oh she is just an extremist..
she does not represent all feminists
is just a different stream
all feminists are not like that
'kill all men' is just satire
blah blah blah

cowards...like all hate groups

yeah yeah feminism is about equality.. Funny how not one poster has provided one smidgen of evidence to support this absolute tripe

your posts are beyond embarrassing

Stop relying on your emotions. There are multiple branches of feminism. You swallow what the mainstream tabloid media tells you which explains why you are so uninformed. There's liberal feminism, socialist feminism, black feminism, queer feminism, anarcho-feminism. These groups spend 99% of their time fighting each other, let alone dealing with people who vomit up nonsense online.

 

[Chief]

you don't like ..,

No, your post was just empty of anything but random bile.

 

[La Dolce Vita]

No, your post was just empty of anything but random bile.

as usual you have squat

anything to link feminism with equality ?

nope then try another insult

rinse repeat

 

[La Dolce Vita]

Stop relying on your emotions. There are multiple branches of feminism. You swallow what the mainstream tabloid media tells you which explains why you are so uninformed. There's liberal feminism, socialist feminism, black feminism, queer feminism, anarcho-feminism. These groups spend 99% of their time fighting each other, let alone dealing with people who vomit up nonsense online.

thanks for proving my point perfectly

if something contradicts the feminism = equality balony, circle jerk call it something else

rinse repeat

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

thanks for proving my point perfectly

if something contradicts the feminism = equality balony, circle jerk call it something else

rinse repeat

You don't have a point; just a stream of hysterical and emotional rubbish.

 

[La Dolce Vita]

You don't have a point; just a stream of hysterical and emotional rubbish.

irony free zone

 

[Chief]

as usual you have squat

anything to link feminism with equality ?

nope then try another insult

rinse repeat

So, where do you think your original response sits?

another pathetic cowardly excuse femo's hide behind

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[La Dolce Vita]

So, where do you think your original response sits?

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well if you can read there has been unlimited evidence to support the feminism = hate group fact

zero to support your narrative

anytime you're ready...still no

try google...oh wait not even the worlds most extensive search engine can help you with your fairy tale

 

[Chief]

well if you can read there has been unlimited evidence to support the feminism = hate group fact

zero to support your narrative

anytime you're ready...still no

try google...oh wait not even the worlds most extensive search engine can help you with your fairy tale

Let's start.

1. Feminism is "a group" now? Can you explain? I mean, I've obviously not studied it as extensively as you, so you'll need to be patient here.

 

[La Dolce Vita]

Let's start.

1. Feminism is "a group" now? Can you explain? I mean, I've obviously not studied it as extensively as you, so you'll need to be patient here.

another pathetic tactic from feminists...no arguments just bog down in semantics...group, movement, ideology brainwashed simpletons..take your pick

something you follow but you have zero substance to support it
how embarrassing for you

don't worry all hate groups need their foot soldiers to participate in the circle jerk..The irony being the hardcore feminists laugh at people like you also

 

[Chief]

Ok nothing to back up the idea of a single group, and no intention of actually engaging in a discussion.

Time to take a break?

 

[HairyO]

Im looking forward to Saving Private Benjamin.

A storming of Normandy by 1,250,000 women in search for Goldie Hawn.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Almost the worst post in this thread.

Why even post? Why not just keep that in your head?


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Is anyone surprised? All he/she does is post nonsense and then when called on it, is unable to back up any of his/her statements.

 

[La Dolce Vita]

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/a...-his-son-demands-changes-20170919-gyk7ai.html

Again a woman avoids all accountability for falsely accusing a man of abusing his son.

where are all those 'equality feminists' (lulz) demanding she be sent to jail ?
if we live in such a patriarchy (again lulz) why does she avoid charges ?

But the fruit loops will deny this has anything to do with the cancer that is feminism