Society/Culture Feminism - 2017 Thread - Pt II

[darth_timon]

But they are happy to grope and grab male celebrities. The difference is that when they do it is seen as funny. Yet more double standards. Think of rock stars being scratched and groped-having their clothes pulled off and hair grabbed. This happened on a regular basis in the 60's and 70's. If male fans had done that to a female celebrity they would be in prison. The male celebrities simply have to accept it as a part of the deal of being famous. Many were scared and had to enter building through back doors or have get away cars to escape the hysterical girls.

I also believe there are some women who love trading a bit of a grope for the money they know will be spent on them and the fame they will achieve if seen on the arm of someone who is rich and powerful.

Male celebs can and do grab at women with little or no consequence - Bill O'Reilly got away with it for years and might have continued to do so if not the potential harm to Fox's reputation.

 

[domus]

I think Domus, there's a lot where we don't agree and probably never will. I have read a lot of feminist material (ranging across a lot of issues), and one consistent narrative is that there are plenty of feminists who regard issues affecting men with a great deal of importance. Whereas so-called Men's Rights Activists spend the vast majority of their time criticising feminism (and women in general), there's actually plenty of evidence that feminists actually support greater awareness of men's issues too. Feminism doesn't hold to the old-fashioned idea that men are animals who cannot resist the merest hint of female flesh (this is where a lot of the puritan notions about how women should dress come from, not to mention victim-blaming), feminism holds to the idea that men are smart enough and capable enough to be held accountable for their actions.

This is the same for issues such as male suicide and the improved performance of girls at school vs boys. MRAs moan about feminism not doing anything about these issues, but MRAs don't do anything whilst feminists actually seek to talk about the underlying causes behind these problems.

Thank you for this conversation.

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

Darth Timon Thanks again for your courtesy in keeping this discussion civil. I know I had seemingly signed off on this discussion but I had to respond to your comments about feminists caring about men.

Wow. So when men or women who are concerned about the disadvantages and suffering of males speak out about it they are accused of whining or women hating (as I have been on this very thread.) When feminists speak out very loudly about the injustices they believe are affecting women this is supported in a very real way by our governments and media. Billions of dollars in funding has been thrown at many issues perceived to be affecting women/girls. Who supplies all of this money and practical support? Why-it is the patriarchal, male dominated governments and media. Funny that.

It infuriates me when people say all MRA's do is talk. By the way, what do you mean by "so-called Men's Rights Activists? Are they really hateful Neanderthals just pretending to care about men and boys?

I have written hundreds of letters to government ministers asking them to support male victims of family violence only to receive generic responses saying 'we are concerned about all violence but statistics show......" even when I have already preempted this typical response by presenting the suicide analogy I have written somewhere in this thread. I have mates who have organized face to face meetings with local MPs that have never amounted to anything despite the irrefutable evidence these men and women present.

I have rung radio stations and the manager of Nova rang me to apologise about the fact that Chris Swan has declared the anniversary of the day Lorena Bobbitt hacked off her sleeping husband's penis as a day worthy of celebration. This was accompanied by much laughter in the studio. When was this statement made-on White Ribbon Day 2106 The manager agreed that it was probably tasteless and inappropriate. When I asked him what the consequences would be he said he would a little chat with Chrissie. When I asked him what he would have done if Sam Pang had made jokes about the mutilation of a woman's genitals and said it was worth celebrating he agreed that he would be sacked. I asked this manager to prove he was contrite and saw the hypocrisy of his standards by allowing a female friend of mine who works with male victims of abuse to have five minutes on Swan's show. He said he would think about it. Nothing happened.

If feminists care so much about men why was not one journalist's voice raised in protest about these disgusting comments? Yet when Eddie McGuire made a throw away line about wishing someone he didn't like would stay under the water when they slid into the pool at the MCG, our very universe imploded and every feminist and cowardly man in Australia joined in on the witch hunt to have McGuire sacked. As it was he had to donate $50 000 to White Ribbon and undergo re-education. It is like living under a Communist dictatorship. His only crime was that his joke targeted a woman.

Aside from men and the women who love them dipping into their own pockets, what do you want us to do?

Many MRA's, male and female have lobbied the government to begin an investigation of the family court system and it's blatant bias against fathers but when their most recent bill was pushed before parliament by some independents who supported it the bill was vetoed. Why?

We have an Office For The Status of Women and a number of other government bodies created specifically to support women and girls. Natasha Stott Destopa is our Ambassador for Women and Girls. Given the long list of incredibly serious issues affecting the male gender one would think it would be logical to also have an Office For the Status of Men but this will never happen. Why? Why are your feminist supporters of men not demanding equality in this area?

How can you expect me to take you seriously when you tell me feminists care about men's issues? I don't care what some feminists say. What do they do to give support and assistance to men and boys?

Feminists respond with rage to any suggestion that males should get more recognition and funding in the area of family violence. They aggressively suggest this would take money and focus away from women who are the real victims. Rosie Batty has been given enormous power and status on the grounds that she is an "expert" in the area of family violence. Why? She is sadly, one of many people who have lost a child or loved one to family violence. Why does this make her an expert on the subject? Yet she has been responsible for billions of dollars in funding going directly to support women and only women.

As I mentioned earlier, more children are killed by women and around 15- 20 men die at the hands of a female partner each year, yet Batty uses the term "gendered violence" whenever she speaks about family violence. Her mantra is that it is all a result of toxic masculinity. The day she addressed the National Press in a speech on family violence a mother in Cairns has recently hacked eight children to death. Batty spoke about protecting our women and children from male violence and not once did she refer to this horrendous massacre-the worst act of family violence in our country's history. And there in a room packed with journalists, not one person had the courage or integrity to ask her how she can call family violence a gendered issue when so many children and men die at the hands of women? By the way-where are the many fathers who have had their children killed by violent female partners? Why do they have no voice? Simple-this issue is fuelled by an ideological agenda and anything which runs counter to the narrative that family violence is all a result of toxic males is silenced.

Where were the feminists with all of the power and sway in our government speaking out about this fact?

When the Red Pill documentary, which focuses on issues facing men and boys was going to be screened in theatres and universities across Australia, it was feminists who demanded this film be banned on the grounds that it promotes hatred of women and supports the rape of women. It is a lie. A dirty, filthy lie. But your feminists who care so much about the issues facing men and boys have succeeded in having theatres and universities cancel their screenings such is the power and influence of feminism in this country. Please don't post any of the countless quotes people attribute to Paul Elam, an MRA who appears in the film, unless you have seen the documentary and understand exactly why and in what context these words were written.

You paint MRA's as ineffectual whiners yet it is feminists who chant foul mouthed hate at any venue where men and women attempt to gather and talk about men's issues. All of the violence and rabid assaults, verbal and physical come from the feminists. I would like you to give me an example of large groups of feral men gathering outside a theatre or university building blocking the entrance or screaming vile abuse at the women who wish to attend. If it ever did happen it would be all over our TV's and newspapers and cause breathless , outraged editorials about oppression and misogyny. Well, it has happened repeatedly here in recent months and aside from a few small articles there has been absolutely no reaction to this feminist fascism.

Clearly, I could go on. If you have read this far-thanks and well done! The definition of feminism may talk about equality for both genders but its implementation in reality is totally focused upon women and girls. Anyone with eyes and ears knows this to be a simple fact.

 

[domus]

Male celebs can and do grab at women with little or no consequence - Bill O'Reilly got away with it for years and might have continued to do so if not the potential harm to Fox's reputation.

No-the difference is that women can do their groping in the full glare of the public without consequences. It is the same with words spoken on tv talk shows. A few years back on a show called The Talk, Sharon Osbourne and her cohosts spent five minutes laughing and glorifying in the fact that a few days earlier a man's wife had drugged him , hacked off his penis and destroyed it. The all female audience cackled with glee too.



Consequences? None. I repeat. None. They still all appear on tv and their careers were not harmed in the slightest. Can you imagine if a group of males gathered around a table on a talk show laughed about the genital mutilation of a woman only a day or two earlier? They would never work in the media again and would possibly face criminal charges for inciting violence against women. How do these constant examples not demonstrate to you the total lack of empathy for men in our society? There would literally have been a bigger outcry had those women joked about the castration of a dog. Where were the voices of outrage raised by our friendly feminists who care so much about victims of family violence be they male or female?

Again-you support my point with your examples. Bill O'Reilly, Rolf Harris and many other rich and powerful men have been brought down by allegations of sexual assault -some reside in prison.

 

[domus]

It's utterly unsurprising you cannot see the difference.[

A brilliant film. Only a sick piece of work could suggest it is anti women.

 

[domus]

No comparison as one is pretty accurate of hair colouring depending on the day and light.

You are just getting worse and just wanted to use the word 'monkey'. Shame on you!

The current French presidents wife (who would be branded a pedophile if she was male) is far more orange than Trump. I wonder if people will mock her appearance? Whenever female politicians get mocked for their appearance it is called misogyny. When male politicians are far more viciously mocked over their appearance it is considered funny (if they are conservatives and white).

 

[domus]

Trump is probably exaggerating the availability of women to impress the buffoon he was talking to, but it's not an unlikely scenario that Trump would encounter many women who would let him get away with anything. That's not to say that he hasn't tried the same disgusting behaviour on women against their will. Would surprise me if he hasn't. He's a pig. But beautiful women still marry him.

Many men are also willing to sell their souls to rub shoulders with the rich and powerful, so it's not only women. I reckon there are millions out there of both genders that would compromise their own morals and dignity for a chance to get even a small taste of the lifestyle of the rich, powerful and famous.

That to me is far more contemptible than the rich and powerful taking advantage of those who are willing to sell their souls for financial gain and power.

 

[Maggie5]

FTFY

Have no idea what that means.

The current French presidents wife (who would be branded a pedophile if she was male) is far more orange than Trump. I wonder if people will mock her appearance? Whenever female politicians get mocked for their appearance it is called misogyny. When male politicians are far more viciously mocked over their appearance it is considered funny (if they are conservatives and white).

Not sure what this has to do with comparing Obama to a monkey and the colour of Trump's hair.

 

[domus]

Have no idea what that means.

Not sure what this has to do with comparing Obama to a monkey and the colour of Trump's hair.

You seem to believe mocking Trump's skin colour or hair is okay. Fair enough. I posed the question "would the media or perhaps you, be perfectly happy if people mocked the French First lady or Julia Gillard's appearance.

 

[Lebbo73]

Have no idea what that means.

Fixed That For You

 

[Lebbo73]

No comparison as one is pretty accurate of hair colouring depending on the day and light.

You are just getting worse and just wanted to use the word 'monkey'. Shame on you!

No I didn't want to use the word 'monkey'. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of it all.

 

[Lebbo73]

It's utterly unsurprising you cannot see the difference.

The difference between what? Yours and Gough's hypocrisy.

 

[Maggie5]

You seem to believe mocking Trump's skin colour or hair is okay. Fair enough. I posed the question "would the media or perhaps you, be perfectly happy if people mocked the French First lady or Julia Gillard's appearance.

Nope, nothing like it.

 

[Maggie5]

Fixed That For You

No what he supposedly fixed, didn't make sense.
I still think using the word 'monkey' was in poor taste.

 

[romeohwho]

The current French presidents wife (who would be branded a pedophile if she was male) is far more orange than Trump. I wonder if people will mock her appearance? Whenever female politicians get mocked for their appearance it is called misogyny. When male politicians are far more viciously mocked over their appearance it is considered funny (if they are conservatives and white).

A 39 year old female married to a 64 year old male -the husband would not be called a peadophile.
Ps Brigette Macron has been mocked quite a bit already.

 

[fleabitten]

No what he supposedly fixed, didn't make sense.

I meant that his whole head is orange, not just his hair. It's the first time I've ever used FTFY. Went pretty well, I think.

 

[fleabitten]

A 39 year old female married to a 64 year old male -the husband would not be called a peadophile.
Ps Brigette Macron has been mocked quite a bit already.

Didn't their romance start when he was 15 and she was his teacher?

 

[romeohwho]

Didn't their romance start when he was 15 and she was his teacher?

My understanding is that she taught him when he was 15 and she was the drama teacher and that when he was 17 he turned up on her doorstep declaring his love. She was married and had 3 children but eventually left her husband.
But none of that is quite relevant to the point I just made.

 

[Maggie5]

I meant that his whole head is orange, not just his hair. It's the first time I've ever used FTFY. Went pretty well, I think.

Not really, what else would be on someone's head if not hair? A hat, cap etc?

 

[La Dolce Vita]

Darth Timon Thanks again for your courtesy in keeping this discussion civil. I know I had seemingly signed off on this discussion but I had to respond to your comments about feminists caring about men.

Wow. So when men or women who are concerned about the disadvantages and suffering of males speak out about it they are accused of whining or women hating (as I have been on this very thread.) When feminists speak out very loudly about the injustices they believe are affecting women this is supported in a very real way by our governments and media. Billions of dollars in funding has been thrown at many issues perceived to be affecting women/girls. Who supplies all of this money and practical support? Why-it is the patriarchal, male dominated governments and media. Funny that.

It infuriates me when people say all MRA's do is talk. By the way, what do you mean by "so-called Men's Rights Activists? Are they really hateful Neanderthals just pretending to care about men and boys?

I have written hundreds of letters to government ministers asking them to support male victims of family violence only to receive generic responses saying 'we are concerned about all violence but statistics show......" even when I have already preempted this typical response by presenting the suicide analogy I have written somewhere in this thread. I have mates who have organized face to face meetings with local MPs that have never amounted to anything despite the irrefutable evidence these men and women present.

I have rung radio stations and the manager of Nova rang me to apologise about the fact that Chris Swan has declared the anniversary of the day Lorena Bobbitt hacked off her sleeping husband's penis as a day worthy of celebration. This was accompanied by much laughter in the studio. When was this statement made-on White Ribbon Day 2106 The manager agreed that it was probably tasteless and inappropriate. When I asked him what the consequences would be he said he would a little chat with Chrissie. When I asked him what he would have done if Sam Pang had made jokes about the mutilation of a woman's genitals and said it was worth celebrating he agreed that he would be sacked. I asked this manager to prove he was contrite and saw the hypocrisy of his standards by allowing a female friend of mine who works with male victims of abuse to have five minutes on Swan's show. He said he would think about it. Nothing happened.

If feminists care so much about men why was not one journalist's voice raised in protest about these disgusting comments? Yet when Eddie McGuire made a throw away line about wishing someone he didn't like would stay under the water when they slid into the pool at the MCG, our very universe imploded and every feminist and cowardly man in Australia joined in on the witch hunt to have McGuire sacked. As it was he had to donate $50 000 to White Ribbon and undergo re-education. It is like living under a Communist dictatorship. His only crime was that his joke targeted a woman.

Aside from men and the women who love them dipping into their own pockets, what do you want us to do?

Many MRA's, male and female have lobbied the government to begin an investigation of the family court system and it's blatant bias against fathers but when their most recent bill was pushed before parliament by some independents who supported it the bill was vetoed. Why?

We have an Office For The Status of Women and a number of other government bodies created specifically to support women and girls. Natasha Stott Destopa is our Ambassador for Women and Girls. Given the long list of incredibly serious issues affecting the male gender one would think it would be logical to also have an Office For the Status of Men but this will never happen. Why? Why are your feminist supporters of men not demanding equality in this area?

How can you expect me to take you seriously when you tell me feminists care about men's issues? I don't care what some feminists say. What do they do to give support and assistance to men and boys?

Feminists respond with rage to any suggestion that males should get more recognition and funding in the area of family violence. They aggressively suggest this would take money and focus away from women who are the real victims. Rosie Batty has been given enormous power and status on the grounds that she is an "expert" in the area of family violence. Why? She is sadly, one of many people who have lost a child or loved one to family violence. Why does this make her an expert on the subject? Yet she has been responsible for billions of dollars in funding going directly to support women and only women.

As I mentioned earlier, more children are killed by women and around 15- 20 men die at the hands of a female partner each year, yet Batty uses the term "gendered violence" whenever she speaks about family violence. Her mantra is that it is all a result of toxic masculinity. The day she addressed the National Press in a speech on family violence a mother in Cairns has recently hacked eight children to death. Batty spoke about protecting our women and children from male violence and not once did she refer to this horrendous massacre-the worst act of family violence in our country's history. And there in a room packed with journalists, not one person had the courage or integrity to ask her how she can call family violence a gendered issue when so many children and men die at the hands of women? By the way-where are the many fathers who have had their children killed by violent female partners? Why do they have no voice? Simple-this issue is fuelled by an ideological agenda and anything which runs counter to the narrative that family violence is all a result of toxic males is silenced.

Where were the feminists with all of the power and sway in our government speaking out about this fact?

When the Red Pill documentary, which focuses on issues facing men and boys was going to be screened in theatres and universities across Australia, it was feminists who demanded this film be banned on the grounds that it promotes hatred of women and supports the rape of women. It is a lie. A dirty, filthy lie. But your feminists who care so much about the issues facing men and boys have succeeded in having theatres and universities cancel their screenings such is the power and influence of feminism in this country. Please don't post any of the countless quotes people attribute to Paul Elam, an MRA who appears in the film, unless you have seen the documentary and understand exactly why and in what context these words were written.

You paint MRA's as ineffectual whiners yet it is feminists who chant foul mouthed hate at any venue where men and women attempt to gather and talk about men's issues. All of the violence and rabid assaults, verbal and physical come from the feminists. I would like you to give me an example of large groups of feral men gathering outside a theatre or university building blocking the entrance or screaming vile abuse at the women who wish to attend. If it ever did happen it would be all over our TV's and newspapers and cause breathless , outraged editorials about oppression and misogyny. Well, it has happened repeatedly here in recent months and aside from a few small articles there has been absolutely no reaction to this feminist fascism.

Clearly, I could go on. If you have read this far-thanks and well done! The definition of feminism may talk about equality for both genders but its implementation in reality is totally focused upon women and girls. Anyone with eyes and ears knows this to be a simple fact.

brilliant...thanks for you're efforts

 

[Werewolf]

A brilliant film. Only a sick piece of work could suggest it is anti women.

I haven't seen it. Whether it's brilliant or not, you have to give the SJW's props for raising awareness of the film

 

[La Dolce Vita]

A 39 year old female married to a 64 year old male -the husband would not be called a peadophile.
Ps Brigette Macron has been mocked quite a bit already.

lol
but going by most of your posts logic is not your strong point

 

[fleabitten]

Not really, what else would be on someone's head if not hair? A hat, cap etc?

His face is on his head. It's also orange.

 

[fleabitten]

My understanding is that she taught him when he was 15 and she was the drama teacher and that when he was 17 he turned up on her doorstep declaring his love. She was married and had 3 children but eventually left her husband.

Sounds romantic but probably less so if the genders were switched.

 

[romeohwho]

Sounds romantic but probably less so if the genders were switched.

Yep, ok, agree with you there re perceptions.

 

[darth_timon]

Darth Timon Thanks again for your courtesy in keeping this discussion civil. I know I had seemingly signed off on this discussion but I had to respond to your comments about feminists caring about men.

Wow. So when men or women who are concerned about the disadvantages and suffering of males speak out about it they are accused of whining or women hating (as I have been on this very thread.) When feminists speak out very loudly about the injustices they believe are affecting women this is supported in a very real way by our governments and media. Billions of dollars in funding has been thrown at many issues perceived to be affecting women/girls. Who supplies all of this money and practical support? Why-it is the patriarchal, male dominated governments and media. Funny that.

It infuriates me when people say all MRA's do is talk. By the way, what do you mean by "so-called Men's Rights Activists? Are they really hateful Neanderthals just pretending to care about men and boys?

I have written hundreds of letters to government ministers asking them to support male victims of family violence only to receive generic responses saying 'we are concerned about all violence but statistics show......" even when I have already preempted this typical response by presenting the suicide analogy I have written somewhere in this thread. I have mates who have organized face to face meetings with local MPs that have never amounted to anything despite the irrefutable evidence these men and women present.

I have rung radio stations and the manager of Nova rang me to apologise about the fact that Chris Swan has declared the anniversary of the day Lorena Bobbitt hacked off her sleeping husband's penis as a day worthy of celebration. This was accompanied by much laughter in the studio. When was this statement made-on White Ribbon Day 2106 The manager agreed that it was probably tasteless and inappropriate. When I asked him what the consequences would be he said he would a little chat with Chrissie. When I asked him what he would have done if Sam Pang had made jokes about the mutilation of a woman's genitals and said it was worth celebrating he agreed that he would be sacked. I asked this manager to prove he was contrite and saw the hypocrisy of his standards by allowing a female friend of mine who works with male victims of abuse to have five minutes on Swan's show. He said he would think about it. Nothing happened.

If feminists care so much about men why was not one journalist's voice raised in protest about these disgusting comments? Yet when Eddie McGuire made a throw away line about wishing someone he didn't like would stay under the water when they slid into the pool at the MCG, our very universe imploded and every feminist and cowardly man in Australia joined in on the witch hunt to have McGuire sacked. As it was he had to donate $50 000 to White Ribbon and undergo re-education. It is like living under a Communist dictatorship. His only crime was that his joke targeted a woman.

Aside from men and the women who love them dipping into their own pockets, what do you want us to do?

Many MRA's, male and female have lobbied the government to begin an investigation of the family court system and it's blatant bias against fathers but when their most recent bill was pushed before parliament by some independents who supported it the bill was vetoed. Why?

We have an Office For The Status of Women and a number of other government bodies created specifically to support women and girls. Natasha Stott Destopa is our Ambassador for Women and Girls. Given the long list of incredibly serious issues affecting the male gender one would think it would be logical to also have an Office For the Status of Men but this will never happen. Why? Why are your feminist supporters of men not demanding equality in this area?

How can you expect me to take you seriously when you tell me feminists care about men's issues? I don't care what some feminists say. What do they do to give support and assistance to men and boys?

Feminists respond with rage to any suggestion that males should get more recognition and funding in the area of family violence. They aggressively suggest this would take money and focus away from women who are the real victims. Rosie Batty has been given enormous power and status on the grounds that she is an "expert" in the area of family violence. Why? She is sadly, one of many people who have lost a child or loved one to family violence. Why does this make her an expert on the subject? Yet she has been responsible for billions of dollars in funding going directly to support women and only women.

As I mentioned earlier, more children are killed by women and around 15- 20 men die at the hands of a female partner each year, yet Batty uses the term "gendered violence" whenever she speaks about family violence. Her mantra is that it is all a result of toxic masculinity. The day she addressed the National Press in a speech on family violence a mother in Cairns has recently hacked eight children to death. Batty spoke about protecting our women and children from male violence and not once did she refer to this horrendous massacre-the worst act of family violence in our country's history. And there in a room packed with journalists, not one person had the courage or integrity to ask her how she can call family violence a gendered issue when so many children and men die at the hands of women? By the way-where are the many fathers who have had their children killed by violent female partners? Why do they have no voice? Simple-this issue is fuelled by an ideological agenda and anything which runs counter to the narrative that family violence is all a result of toxic males is silenced.

Where were the feminists with all of the power and sway in our government speaking out about this fact?

When the Red Pill documentary, which focuses on issues facing men and boys was going to be screened in theatres and universities across Australia, it was feminists who demanded this film be banned on the grounds that it promotes hatred of women and supports the rape of women. It is a lie. A dirty, filthy lie. But your feminists who care so much about the issues facing men and boys have succeeded in having theatres and universities cancel their screenings such is the power and influence of feminism in this country. Please don't post any of the countless quotes people attribute to Paul Elam, an MRA who appears in the film, unless you have seen the documentary and understand exactly why and in what context these words were written.

You paint MRA's as ineffectual whiners yet it is feminists who chant foul mouthed hate at any venue where men and women attempt to gather and talk about men's issues. All of the violence and rabid assaults, verbal and physical come from the feminists. I would like you to give me an example of large groups of feral men gathering outside a theatre or university building blocking the entrance or screaming vile abuse at the women who wish to attend. If it ever did happen it would be all over our TV's and newspapers and cause breathless , outraged editorials about oppression and misogyny. Well, it has happened repeatedly here in recent months and aside from a few small articles there has been absolutely no reaction to this feminist fascism.

Clearly, I could go on. If you have read this far-thanks and well done! The definition of feminism may talk about equality for both genders but its implementation in reality is totally focused upon women and girls. Anyone with eyes and ears knows this to be a simple fact.

Respectfully, I'm going to have to continue to disagree. Without going into great detail at this point (it's nearly 10pm here so I don't have the time), I have encountered a great many MRAs and MGTOWS, and for that matter, many different types of feminist. There's a lot of stuff on my site about it, as well as various blog posts. It's been my experience (having gone deep down this rabbit hole) that MRAs care more about hating women than they do men's rights. They are also greatly distorting feminism. I may respond in more detail over the next few days.

http://meerkatmusings.co.uk/what-i-think/feminism/

https://coalitionofthebrave.wordpress.com