Fergus Watts - Wisbey's notes

[spindoctor]

Neither of us are going to convince the other, so we might as well leave it.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Back to the topic after the ambush - thanks for the good read Dave! The more I hear about Watts, the more I like.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Back to the topic after the ambush - thanks for the good read Dave! The more I hear about Watts, the more I like.

The sort of player you build a forward line around. Now if only one of Krueger, Scott Stevens or Rutten can develop into a very good FF. Hentschel as the 3rd tall and a couple of good crumbers like Stiffy, Schuback and Ladhams around their feet should make a good forward line.

I would really like to see Jericho step up this year. He is an athlete thats playing footy. He can kick goals but I would like to develop him into a defender than takes on the nippy small forwards.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
The sort of player you build a forward line around.

Which is exactly what james Fantasia said that we would be doing - building a forward line around Watts for the next 10 years or so.

 

[spindoctor]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
The sort of player you build a forward line around. Now if only one of Krueger, Scott Stevens or Rutten can develop into a very good FF. Hentschel as the 3rd tall and a couple of good crumbers like Stiffy, Schuback and Ladhams around their feet should make a good forward line.

I would really like to see Jericho step up this year. He is an athlete thats playing footy. He can kick goals but I would like to develop him into a defender than takes on the nippy small forwards.

My money is on Rutten to develop into that full-forward. Krueger and Stevens will probably play back.

Rutten has great hands, reasonable pace off the mark and a great build, as well as apparently good leading (from the little I've seen). Shouldn't need too much sideways agility if he is just leading and marking.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by spindoctor
My money is on Rutten to develop into that full-forward. Krueger and Stevens will probably play back.

Rutten has great hands, reasonable pace off the mark and a great build, as well as apparently good leading (from the little I've seen). Shouldn't need too much sideways agility if he is just leading and marking.

Rutten is definitely a candidate. He knows when to lead and where to lead, has good pair of hands, has a good kick and is good at ground level. The problem with Rutten is not when we have the ball its when the opposition has the ball. He is so bloody slow when he is chasing his man, has a turning circle of a MAC truck and sideways agility is major concern. If he can improve his pace and agility he should be a very good KPP.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Rutten is definitely a candidate. He knows when to lead and where to lead, has good pair of hands, has a good kick and is good at ground level. The problem with Rutten is not when we have the ball its when the opposition has the ball. He is so bloody slow when he is chasing his man, has a turning circle of a MAC truck and sideways agility is major concern. If he can improve his pace and agility he should be a very good KPP.

Yep. That sums Rutten up well..

Agility and pace were his weaknesses last year, and an improvement or otherwise in these 2 qualities will determine Rutten's fate, because he does have all the other attributes.

 

[Jerome]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I would really like to see Jericho step up this year. He is an athlete thats playing footy. He can kick goals but I would like to develop him into a defender than takes on the nippy small forwards.

He certainly should step up this year. With another AFL pre season behind him and 5 blokes leaving Westies he should be aiming at playing senior SANFL from Round 1. There are plenty of challenges in front of him, let's hope he is up to it.

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by spindoctor
That's complete and utter crap, Macca. How often in the last couple of years have Port been smashed? Not at all! Most of the games they have been winning, and Cornes and Tredrea still appear at HALF-BACK. No, I did not mean HALF-FORWARD, I MEANT HALF-BACK. OK?

Most finals weve been smashed...maybe not on the scoreboard, but in general play. A couple of games during each of the last two years weve been completely outplayed....usually by Melbourne. As someone else said, weve won games where we shouldnt have and didnt deserve to win. The Hawthorn game at MCG this year for example. All of these games Cornes and Tredrea went wandering down to try and get the ball. If they just parked themselves in the forward 50, you, along with everyone else in the league would criticise and say they are the two biggest slackarses in the league and should work harder to get the ball. I watch Port intensely week in week out, and the only time either appear at "half back" is if we are getting thrashed. 75% of the time they are between the 50 metre line and a straight line going from the wing thru the centre of the ground.

Cornes this year, was, as I said, abysmal.

Ill gladly take an "abysmal" forward that takes over 170 marks a year and kicks 29 goals. Id bet the Crows would love a forward to be able to take 170 marks a year.

In a high-scoring forward line his output of goals is extremely poor.

I disagree. How many flankers score heaps of goals? Not many. Our forward goalkickers ended up like this:

Tredrea 58
Pickett 43
S Burgoyne 39
Cornes 29
Dew 23
Che 20

What would you call a reasonable goal output for Cornes? 40-50? How often do flankers kick that amount of goals in a year?

Sure he could kick more goals...if he works on his accuracy and converts his shots more then he will kick more goals.

And Mark Stevens is a harder worker than Tredrea IMO. Possibly the hardest-working CHF in the league in 2002.

Why? Because Dermott Brereton said so?

Although he was missing from injury for the majority of this season, in 2002 he took basically the whole weight of a mediocre forward line on his shoulders and played exceptionally well.

Id disagree with that. He had more than enough support from Roo (22 games, 35 goals), Welsh (13, 29), Burton (25, 52). He did perform very well yes.

He was not part of a uniformly strong forward line like Port's.

Again id disagree. Burton kicked over 50 goals...Roo made AA playing a lot of the year up forward, Welsh when in the side was excellent.

He was the one that held it together, always presented, always put in second efforts. If you had watched Mark Stevens last year you would agree.

Tredrea does/did all this things as well. Just because he has "more support" doesnt mean he doesnt work as hard.

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by spindoctor
Cornes didn't do much during the season, and won exactly ZERO games for you.

Crap. You mustnt have been watching all that closely. Forgotten the first Showdown this year have we? Understandable I guess. Everyone had Cornes in the AA side halfway thru the year and he was the no.1 forward in the league after Round 7. Then his formed wained a bit and he didnt improve as the year went on. People expected him to improve on last year as he has markedly improved year in year out for the past 6 years yet it didnt happen. Instead he stayed at a similar level as last year. More marks than last year, averaged more goals, 11 more scoring shots, and 1 disposal less a game shows he wasnt abysmal compared to last year. As i said before....if taking 172 marks, kicking 29 goals is doing nothing then ill be damned.

 

[spindoctor]

Let me reiterate again: too many of those Cornes marks are taken well beyond the forward line. That stat actually makes him look even worse, a player taking that many marks should be kicking far more goals.

29 goals is a POOR output for Cornes. I can't believe you're trying to argue that.

You are blinded by your love for your team. As I said, I have an ardent Port supporter at m work but he can see when players are doing things wrong and admits those two play way too far down the field.

Get your blinders off, mate.

 

[Port01]

They can't all play on the full forward line.

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by spindoctor
Let me reiterate again: too many of those Cornes marks are taken well beyond the forward line. That stat actually makes him look even worse, a player taking that many marks should be kicking far more goals.

Why? Hes a flanker. He isnt a full forward. Hes job is to get the ball into the forward 50.

29 goals is a POOR output for Cornes. I can't believe you're trying to argue that.

If COrnes played at Full FOrward I'd agree with you. He doesnt. He plays on a flank. 29 goals for a flanker is a reasonable return.

You are blinded by your love for your team.

Hardly. Im more critical of Port than any other Port supporter I know. Not to mention Chad Cornes would be in my bottom 3 least favourite Port players.

As I said, I have an ardent Port supporter at m work but he can see when players are doing things wrong and admits those two play way too far down the field.

Cornes is a HFF. Tredrea is a CHF. Neither of them are supposed to play solely in the forward 50. Every other CHF in the league plays just as much up the ground as Tredrea does. Every other tall HFF plays just as much up the ground as Cornes does.

Full FOrwards are supposed to play close to goal. CHFs and HFFs arent.

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by Macca19
If COrnes played at Full FOrward I'd agree with you. He doesnt. He plays on a flank. 29 goals for a flanker is a reasonable return.
Hardly. Im more critical of Port than any other Port supporter I know. Not to mention Chad Cornes would be in my bottom 3 least favourite Port players.

So you talk him up when you don't like him. Lord knows what you say about your favourite players

Who is Port's full forward then?

 

[Portia]

Shaun Burgoyne for most of the year. We've used Che there in the past.

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by Porthos
Shaun Burgoyne for most of the year. We've used Che there in the past.

Interesting.

The games I have seen I wouldn't have said he was a full forwar but I suppose these days the forwards float in and out of different positions

Certainy I woudl have thought Tredrea and Cornes spend some time up at full forward during a game.

 

[Portia]

Yeah, a bit, but neither of them are anchored as deep as our defacto full-forward tends to be.

Sometimes its a resting ruckman too, of course.

 

[spindoctor]

Cornes is a half-forward flanker? Yeh, sure, that's where you'll often see him drift down to...BINGO! He is supposed to be playing in the forward 50.

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by spindoctor
Cornes is a half-forward flanker? Yeh, sure, that's where you'll often see him drift down to...BINGO! He is supposed to be playing in the forward 50.

How often does Chad Cornes line up in the goal square as the game starts and after goals? Rarely. BINGO! He isnt our full forward!

 

[PAfolwr]

Originally posted by Jars458
So you talk him up when you don't like him. Lord knows what you say about your favourite players

Who is Port's full forward then?

Since 2000, Primus is probably as good as any.

spindoctor for someone that obviously doesn't watch many port games you seem to know a lot.
2 questions for you.
Out of all the players from the Crows and Port squads name the players that
1) Scored the most goals?
2) Had the most inside fifty?

Of course Port looks a lot better when Tredrea and Cornes stay in the forward fifty.
It means that our midfield is winning and delivering the ball up there.

 

[spindoctor]

I watch plenty of Port games.

Thank you.

 

[PAfolwr]

Originally posted by spindoctor
I watch plenty of Port games.

Thank you.

What about an answer to my questions.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by ****
Seems a solid pickup.

Sounds like Perrie with a brain.



****

and better ground level skills. Perrie's skills below his knees are non-existent