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Ian Dargie

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John Ralph article on Leon Cameron.

Begins his piece with:

Did not know what to make of this line a couple of sentences later, is it a very poor attempt at a joke?

He then states that Leon Cameron spent 7 years at the Bulldogs as an assistant coach and is now in his first year at Hawthorn, yet then captions his accompanying photo with:

He isn't an assistant coach at Western Bulldogs anymore, and repeats word for word what he said about Rocket in his opening sentence.

Then he finishes with a bang, calling Liam Shiels, Luke.

Extremely lazy journalism.
The error in the caption would have occurred when the piece was being uploaded to the website and would have had nothng to do with the journalist. Someone else would have uploaded the piece, uploaded the photo and messed up the caption, thinking the picture was of Rodney Eade rather than Leon Cameron.

You'll see a lot of errors online that don't necessarily appear in the actual paper, and it's all because errors occur in the upload phase, which is separate to the process of filing and proofing that occurs with the hard copy.

You're picking out an error in the production process and a sub-editing oversight. Wouldn't necessarily call that "lazy journalism". I think that criticism applies more to serious factual inaccuracies or lack of balance. To be honest, if the worst instances of media malpractice you can cite are mistaking Liams for Lukes, then you really don't have too much to complain about.

I actually notice a lot of that on here. The tut-tutting, and the claims of "lazy journalism" might make people feel like they're offering a blistering critique of the fourth estate, but the criticism seems limited mostly to nit-picking of mistakes that, while admittedly sloppy, are inconsequential. If people think journalists are so shit, why don't they wander out past the shallows and go after them for something a bit more significant than getting a player's first name wrong? Or are people worried that attempts to bite off a bit more might reveal that they actually know less about the subject than they're pretending to? Maybe if they attempt to offer real criticism, and fail, pointing out insignificant oversights while kidding themselves that they're holding journalists' feet to the fire won't feel as satisfying.

I'm all for canning bad journalism. But most of the criticism offered here is the equivalent of going to a restaurant and saying you hated it because the dessert spoon was in the wrong place, while pretending to be an expert on food. Or reviewing a book, while pretending to be a literature buff, but complaining only about the footnotes. There's a pretentiousness to it, I'm afraid – people dwell on the obvious and the inconsequential because it's an easy win, because going beyond that requires greater insight than they can muster. People want to sound like they know about journalism, but don't want to go after anything substantive because it might expose the shallowness of their understanding.

If people want to criticise journalism, then criticise journalism, not just the fine print.
 

DivideandMultiply

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I'm all for canning bad journalism. But most of the criticism offered here is the equivalent of going to a restaurant and saying you hated it because the dessert spoon was in the wrong place, while pretending to be an expert on food. Or reviewing a book, while pretending to be a literature buff, but complaining only about the footnotes. There's a pretentiousness to it, I'm afraid – people dwell on the obvious and the inconsequential because it's an easy win, because going beyond that requires greater insight than they can muster. People want to sound like they know about journalism, but don't want to go after anything substantive because it might expose the shallowness of their understanding.

If people want to criticise journalism, then criticise journalism, not just the fine print.
Nice essay, feeling a little sensitive?

There is plenty of legitimate and in depth criticism of certain journalists and their opinions on this website.

So either you lack the required research skills (like many of your brethren), are lazy (same again) or prefer to sidestep the truth so you are free to bore us with your condescending opinions (and again).
 

bradrowe#32

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Mark Stevens is getting a little pissy.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...illiest-mistakes/story-e6frf9jf-1226086449315

MICHAEL Rischitelli's ridiculous 40m kick the wrong way at Metricon Stadium last weekend was dumb.

But there has been dumber.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...raditional-clubs/story-e6frf9ox-1226085854523

At the Round 3 Bulldogs v Gold Coast match, an old couple in red, white and blue politely clapped everything the Suns did as the match predictably slipped away.

"I feel sorry for them," the Dogs fan in his 60s said to his wife.

It was a ridiculous and naive call. Dumb.
 

Ian Dargie

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Nice essay, feeling a little sensitive?
Not at all. Just offering an observation. Most of what passes for 'media criticism' around here is weak sauce.

There is plenty of legitimate and in depth criticism of certain journalists and their opinions on this website.
Yes - there is some of what could be called "legitimate and in-depth criticism". But most of the critiques of journalism would be more accurately characterised as pointing out sub-editing oversights. Easy wins.

So either you lack the required research skills (like many of your brethren), are lazy (same again) or prefer to sidestep the truth so you are free to bore us with your condescending opinions (and again).
If you say so. But really, it's the easiest comeback in the world to say "shows how much you know" when someone disagrees with you.

For the record, I don't actually dispute that a lot of Australian sports journalism is ordinary - I'm just saying that, generally speaking, the examples marshalled here fail to demonstrate that.
 

Lockyer24

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Luke Darcy on OWAAT just said Tom Scully is the same size as Nathan Buckley

Ummm wtf.
 
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Fitzcray

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When are they going to get some decent footy journos in both Sydney and Brisbane who can talk about Australia's national sport with authority.
The coverage and space given to footy in those cities is rotten.
The Lions got 22,000 to their game last night and they are no longer in the hunt for the finals.
The Broncos are gunning for the top 4 and they could only manage 22'000 to their last game.
Yet the rugby league loving Courier Mail reports league over footy 10 to 1.
I don't get it.
 

bradrowe#32

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According to Jay Clark, Brendan Goddard was drafted in 1992. Nice.
 

Ian Dargie

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I wonder how many of the critics in this thread rely on Murdoch tabloids and commercial stations for their news and current affairs. Maybe those who do should consider whether their piety is selective.

After all, it's a bit rich to claim to be a stickler for standards in journalism if you consistently choose the outlets that deliver the least sophisticated coverage and in turn demand the least from their audience.

You shouldn't complain about the taste of beer if you choose to drink only Carlton Draught. Likewise, you shouldn't whinge about journalism if you choose to consume the crappiest kinds.

Sure, it might be fun to demand quality journalism. But if you read the Hun every day and watch Channel 7 news every night, you kinda forfeit the high ground on that one.
 

papabear

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When are they going to get some decent footy journos in both Sydney and Brisbane who can talk about Australia's national sport with authority.
The coverage and space given to footy in those cities is rotten.
The Lions got 22,000 to their game last night and they are no longer in the hunt for the finals.
The Broncos are gunning for the top 4 and they could only manage 22'000 to their last game.
Yet the rugby league loving Courier Mail reports league over footy 10 to 1.
I don't get it.
For the same reason the Super Bowl gets more coverage world wide despite having a smaller crowd.
 

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Tonight in the post-game interview with a selwood brother, Basil Zempilas made the comment that NicNat and Majak both look the same, except Majak has better abs.
 

catman 71

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Re: BigFooty giving the media ideas thread



Well articulated. Sports journalism, particularly AFL, and by that i mean broadcast media too, is almost considered as the domain of the ex-player. It's the 'post-playing days superannuation supplemental plan'.

It's underpinned by this specious notion that 'only someone who's played the game can really comment on it'. And, of course, this in turn is legitimised by the celebrity status that the media affords.

I have noticed this too.

My brother aspires to being a commentator. He commentates local footy, and is well respected and recieved by his peers. He even did a late-night stint a few years ago on SEN. He is dedicated and does his homework on players like few others. However, he has one massive disadvantage which will prevent him from following his dream- He never played AFL football!

He and many people he has worked with can't get a broadcsting job because they want you to be a "name" and to have played the game. It is now all about having a "brand".

He told me that, while working at SEN, his producer asked management for money to pay the producers and host of a show. SEN said that money was tight, so they couldn't give them a pay rise. However, less than two weeks later, SEN signed Kevin Bartlett, Matt Grandlan from 3AW, and a lot of the other people who are on SEN now. They did have the money, but wanted "names" to push to advertisers. Too bad if some (like KB) are as silly as a goat. Brand name means more than talent these days.
 

Ian Dargie

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I have noticed this too.

My brother aspires to being a commentator. He commentates local footy, and is well respected and recieved by his peers. He even did a late-night stint a few years ago on SEN. He is dedicated and does his homework on players like few others. However, he has one massive disadvantage which will prevent him from following his dream- He never played AFL football!

He and many people he has worked with can't get a broadcsting job because they want you to be a "name" and to have played the game. It is now all about having a "brand".

He told me that, while working at SEN, his producer asked management for money to pay the producers and host of a show. SEN said that money was tight, so they couldn't give them a pay rise. However, less than two weeks later, SEN signed Kevin Bartlett, Matt Grandlan from 3AW, and a lot of the other people who are on SEN now. They did have the money, but wanted "names" to push to advertisers. Too bad if some (like KB) are as silly as a goat. Brand name means more than talent these days.
Do you understand the difference between a commentator and a journalist?
 

catman 71

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Do you understand the difference between a commentator and a journalist?

The same problem exists in both commentary or journalism, nimrod.

I was responding to a post which used the term "broadcast media". Would you not include commentators and analysts in that catergory, or do you only count people with Bachelor Of Journalism degrees as legit media people.

You criticise me for knowing nothing about journalism. Now, you say that I know nothing about how it works with commentating either, even though my brother is involved heavily in the industry. He is virtually an intern, learning about the business, and tells me about it. So, I think I know some things about it, and the struggles he and others have found breaking into the industry, from what he told me. But then, what would he or I know, only you know everything, oh great sage.

Why don't you just come out and call my brother or myself a liar, then? That's what you asserting!

Maybe a red card might shut your mouth.
 

Ian Dargie

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The same problem exists in both commentary or journalism, nimrod.
What problem is that?

Not many ex-players become journalists.

Do you only count people with Bachelor Of Journalism degrees as legit media people.
Not sure what you mean by 'legit media people'.

You criticise me for knowing nothing about journalism.
More accurately, I criticise you for pretending to know about journalism when you don't.

Now, you say that I know nothing about how it works with commentating either, even though my brother is involved heavily in the industry. He is virtually an intern, learning about the business, and tells me about it. So, I think I know some things about it, and the struggles he and others have found breaking into the industry, from what he told me.
Is this meant to be persuasive?

Your brother is "virtually an intern" – does that mean he's even more junior than an actual intern? – so that means you have real insight? Seriously?

That aside, even if we assume your brother is a talented, hard-working guy, are you really so surprised that broadcasters are in no mad rush to throw cash at an anonymous young man who wants to get paid to talk about football?

But then, what would he or I know, only you know everything, oh great sage.
I know enough to know you're on the right track in the first half of this sentence.

Why don't you just come out and call my brother or myself a liar, then? That's what you asserting!
I missed the part where I asserted that. Can you point it out to me?

For the record, though, pretending to know about something when you don't is a kind of pretentious dishonesty, but in your case I think it's born more of delusion and stupidity than actual intent to deceive. So that's a win for you. A little feather in your cap. Kind of.

Maybe a red card might shut your mouth.
Maybe. Is that the only way you'll be able to hold your own?
 
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AFL Media gets it wrong TWICE in the same article.



History made: first successful headcount in VFL/AFL history

By Nathan Schmook

THE FIRST successful head count in VFL/AFL history took place at the weekend, with Frankston penalised for having 19 men on the ground in its clash against North Ballarat on Sunday.

Under rule 5.5 of the AFL laws of the game, Frankston had its score wiped three minutes into the third quarter when acting Roosters captain Myles Sewell asked the umpire for a head count and an extra player was discovered.

The Dolphins, who were 5.3 (38) at the time, played on unaware their score had been wiped and lost a thriller by three points before scores were adjusted post-match to hand the Rebels a 41-point win.

AFL Victoria state league manager John Hook said there had been no fallout from Frankston, which acknowledged its mistake.

He said the likely cause of the 19th man was a Frankston player starting on the ground in the second half when he was meant to be on the interchange bench.

"My understanding is there was human error and people haven't looked at the board and who's on the bench," Hook said.

"It's unfortunate, but Frankston have no issue with it because they know they were at fault.

"Thankfully North Ballarat still won the game, so it's really a matter of percentage.

"Once it's been established that they have 19 men on the ground, that's what we have to do."

Sewell said the Rebels didn't know their opponent's score had been wiped and they were thrilled to win what had been a tight match before the score adjustment.

The midfielder had been alerted by his team's bench that the Dolphins might have 19 players on the ground before requesting a head count.

Former West Coast captain Guy McKenna called the last AFL head count against St Kilda in round 22, 1999.

Before Sunday there had been three head counts called in VFL/AFL history, with all unsuccessful.

In round six, 2008, the Sydney Swans were found to have had 19 men on the ground for about one minute against North Melbourne because of a botched interchange.

The controversial drawn match prompted a new rule allowing stewards to alert the umpires if an interchange infringement has occurred.

Nathan Schmook is a reporter for AFL Media. Follow him on Twitter @AFL_Nathan
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-07-22/history-made-first-successful-headcount-in-vfl
It appears research is not the strong suit of this reporter.

The first (and most obvious stuff up) is relating the story to "VFL/AFL History". Though Frankston and North Ballarat play in the VFL, it's VFA/VFL History (ie: the competition is virtually the old VFA).

In the VFA, there was a successful head count in 1977, during a McWilliams Centenary Cup match between Yarraville and the offending side, Northcote. More is explained here...
http://www.vflfooty.com/node/8095


Granted, VFA history is a little harder to find, but you have to ask, how can an AFL Media employee confuse Frankston and North Ballarat as being apart of VFL/AFL history?

 

Fitzcray

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Why do national sport shows require rugby people on panels?
Nothing gets in my groat more than having these chat shows taken over by rugby people who like to pretend football doesn't exist.
Roy Masters is one who should be removed from the ABC panel on Sunday morning.
He is only their to make everything about rugby and criticise footy.
 
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