Financial Fair Play discussion

glenferry23

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I guess because there is a rule that is being broken, giving you an unfair advantage that no one else is getting. Which is cheating to me.

To me FFP was bought in to curb us, you guys and PSG and it seems we are the only ones that took it seriously. Maybe thats what gets me triggered about this.
This is what it comes down to for me. No matter how you try and deflect it or defend it, it’s still clear cut. Cheating is cheating.
 

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Magma

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all this only goes up to 2013. there is no evidence that it has continued past then. and we copped a pretty hefty punishment which did impact on us at the time. the fordham arrangement (the image rights thing) was not allowed by uefa. the payment to mancini as a consultant was happening before ffp, and the etihad deal has been allowed by uefa.

der speigel should also release their evidence to other publications. it must be said that the basis of all these allegations are from emails, not official documents or contracts.
 

Zidane98

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all this only goes up to 2013. there is no evidence that it has continued past then. and we copped a pretty hefty punishment which did impact on us at the time. the fordham arrangement (the image rights thing) was not allowed by uefa. the payment to mancini as a consultant was happening before ffp, and the etihad deal has been allowed by uefa.

der speigel should also release their evidence to other publications. it must be said that the basis of all these allegations are from emails, not official documents or contracts.
Will his highness turn over all financial information from ADUG and Abu Dhabi government related entities that he has control over?
 

moomba

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I guess because there is a rule that is being broken, giving you an unfair advantage that no one else is getting. Which is cheating to me.

To me FFP was bought in to curb us, you guys and PSG and it seems we are the only ones that took it seriously. Maybe thats what gets me triggered about this.
Abramovich spent his money establishing Chelsea as a too side and then voted.for FFP to stop others doing the same.

From Platini.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...FULL-transcript-interview-UEFA-president.html

Now coming back to the question, I think that Abramovich is like Mr Moratti, is like Mr Berlusconi, he says, ‘OK stop. I don’t want to play this bad game with those other clubs paying more, more, more and lose a lot of money.’
 
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chef

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Thread starter Moderator #331
Abramovich spent his money establishing Chelsea as a too side and then voted.for FFP to stop others doing the same.

From Platini.
No doubt if everyone actually sticks to the FFP rules it'd be good for us. We got lucky that we were able to build before it came in, i am surprised that Roman agreed with it.

I kind of wish we'd get creative too and just work our way around it but it is cheating so it'd feel a bit hollow.
 
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moomba

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Will his highness turn over all financial information from ADUG and Abu Dhabi government related entities that he has control over?
AFAIK, the FFP regs require clubs to provide their own FFP returns as well as the accounts of all related parties the club has had dealings with.
 

Zidane98

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AFAIK, the FFP regs require clubs to provide their own FFP returns as well as the accounts of all related parties the club has had dealings with.
ADUG aren't a sponsor of the club (it owns the club). His highness has been shovelling money into Abu Dhabi government entities to fund commercial "sponsorship" deals. His highness really should turn over all ADUG financial information to the authorities in order to help investigators.
 

moomba

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UEFA should change the FFP regs if they want shareholders/owners financial information as well.

Has FSG handed over their financial details or does this rule just apply to us?
 

Zidane98

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They should change the FFP regs if they want shareholders/owners financial information as well.

Has FSG handed over their financial details or does this rule just apply to us?
Are FSG funding LFC sponsorships through related parties? If they are doing that then yes they should because that is cheating.
 

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moomba

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Are FSG funding LFC sponsorships through related parties? If they are doing that then yes they should because that is cheating.
Don't know if they are or aren't.

But even if they were it's not necessarily against FFP regs.
 

Zidane98

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Don't know if they are or aren't.

But even if they were it's not necessarily against FFP regs.
Yes it is. Because the company that ADUG funds becomes a related party according to the related party definition of having a significant financial influence. Which results in sponsorship deals being assessed at real market value and a huge difference in the figures previously presented.

I'm starting to see why his highness organises sponsorship deals through related companies in the UAE. He does it so he can freely inflate commercial income and fund it himself through transactions in the UAE that can't be scrutinised.

And nobody in Abu Dhabi will speak up about it as his highness controls the justice system. Any such person in Abu Dhabi is likely to be jailed after a sham trial.

Right now if I was a City fan I would be questioning why Mansour and the club was quite happy to publically boast about how the club was FFP compliant and self sustainable when that is not the case.
 

Magma

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yeah just hit 100 points last season, on a fantastic run, playing great football, some exceptional players, best manager in the world, but those damn financials really keep me awake at night.

why sheikh why
 

moomba

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Yes it is. Because the company that ADUG funds becomes a related party according to the related party definition of having a significant financial influence. Which results in sponsorship deals being assessed at real market value and a huge difference in the figures previously presented.

I'm starting to see why his highness organises sponsorship deals through related companies in the UAE. He does it so he can freely inflate commercial income and fund it himself through transactions in the UAE that can't be scrutinised.

And nobody in Abu Dhabi will speak up about it as his highness controls the justice system. Any such person in Abu Dhabi is likely to be jailed after a sham trial.

Right now if I was a City fan I would be questioning why Mansour and the club was quite happy to publically boast about how the club was FFP compliant and self sustainable when that is not the case.
Even if it was deemed a related party transaction, related party transactions do not breach FFP rules.

If Mansour wanted his name across the front of our shirts he would be perfectly within his rights to sponsor the club and pay whatever amount he wants.

UEFA might choose to adjust that figure based on fair market value but that still wouldn't make the sponsorship a breach of FFP regs.

If Conn is correct UEFA didn't have a problem with the Etihad deal, they considered it fair market value. The second tier sponsors were specifically mentioned in the settlement back in 2014 and it's fair to say UEFA okayed those sponsorships without a great deal of enthusiasm.

Even Der Spiegel says that the club is self sustaining now. If Etihad were to leave we'd get a better deal in the market. Arabtec isn't a sponsor, Aabar and Etisalat are small fry.
 

Zidane98

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Yeah the club is guilty of presenting fabricated financial figures for a FFP audit. That's against the rules as was City's failure to disclose Mansour funding sponsorships himself personally.

As for bring self sustaining now it would be pretty embarrassing if a club couldn't be after its owner had wasted 1.5 billion pounds on it over the last 10 years.
 

moomba

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Yeah the club is guilty of presenting fabricated financial figures for a FFP audit. That's against the rules as was City's failure to disclose Mansour funding sponsorships himself personally.

As for bring self sustaining now it would be pretty embarrassing if a club couldn't be after its owner had wasted 1.5 billion pounds on it over the last 10 years.
You don't know what was presented to UEFA at the time.
 

Zidane98

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i dont think so no. but it all seems a fair bit of a mess
Nothing will happen until the end of the season now anyway. Can't penalise clubs mid competition, that would be unfair even for the 2 clubs caught blatantly cheating.
 

moomba

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UEFA won't be able to use anything from Der Spiegel unless they provide full copies of all emails, and full details of how they were sourced.

Due diligence and fact checking is obviously a big question mark for Der Spiegel so I doubt UEFA will want to test their info in court.
 

Zidane98

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UEFA won't be able to use anything from Der Spiegel unless they provide full copies of all emails, and full details of how they were sourced.

Due diligence and fact checking is obviously a big question mark for Der Spiegel so I doubt UEFA will want to test their info in court.
What court case? UEFA can hand down any decision they like. Clubs are unable to take a governing body to court.

The 2 guilty clubs can contest their penalty in the CAS. Quite a few have tried that with AC Milan getting their season ban reduced to a financial penalty. The rest failed. Thankfully footballing decisions aren't able to be challenged in courts by those who have no respect for the rules and those that don't care about wasting tens of millions of pounds on frivilous court action

Something tells me that neither PSG or City will garner much sympathy from a CAS judge with their recent conduct either but they are welcome to try.

We will know more after the season concludes.
 
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