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Gibbke

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Thread starter #1
Just asking for details I can't find anywhere up here in Qld, where my resources are a both more limited than those available to most of you...

1) The score between North Hobart and Gleorchy on the weekend - according to the Mercury and Sportingpulse, both teams were tied at 6.2 after the first quarter, and again at half time after evidently both teams were held scoreless after kicking 12.4 combined in the first - must be a misprint, surely?

2) Who are the Hobart, Launceston, North Launceston and North Hobart captains for 2013? Got all the coaches...e.g. Is Brennan Savage an actual captain-coach, or is he an onfield coach with Scott Stephens named as the captain...?
 

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JM71

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#2
Not familiar with the other three club's captains. Hobart's Captain is Andrew Lemm (who didn't play last year due to injury).
 

GreyBudgie

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#3
Just asking for details I can't find anywhere up here in Qld, where my resources are a both more limited than those available to most of you...

1) The score between North Hobart and Gleorchy on the weekend - according to the Mercury and Sportingpulse, both teams were tied at 6.2 after the first quarter, and again at half time after evidently both teams were held scoreless after kicking 12.4 combined in the first - must be a misprint, surely?

North Hobart 4.0, 6.2, 8.3, 9.5 (59)
Glenorchy 4.2, 6.2, 9.12, 12.16 (88)
2) Who are the Hobart, Launceston, North Launceston and North Hobart captains for 2013? Got all the coaches...e.g. Is Brennan Savage an actual captain-coach, or is he an onfield coach with Scott Stephens named as the captain...?
 

Halftimehero

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#4
Just asking for details I can't find anywhere up here in Qld, where my resources are a both more limited than those available to most of you...

1) The score between North Hobart and Gleorchy on the weekend - according to the Mercury and Sportingpulse, both teams were tied at 6.2 after the first quarter, and again at half time after evidently both teams were held scoreless after kicking 12.4 combined in the first - must be a misprint, surely?

2) Who are the Hobart, Launceston, North Launceston and North Hobart captains for 2013? Got all the coaches...e.g. Is Brennan Savage an actual captain-coach, or is he an onfield coach with Scott Stephens named as the captain...?
North Hobarts Captain is Hugh Williams and Hobarts is Andrew Lemm, cant help you with the Northern sides sorry.
 

Gibbke

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Thread starter #5
Question - Sportingpulse says there are two Hugh Williams running around for Hobart City. Is this true, or just another of their data entry fubars...?
 

Gibbke

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Thread starter #7
A guy called L.Coombe played for Lauderdale in 2009. What was his first name?

There is a William Coombe listed under players in sportingpulse, who listed as not scoring in R11 when you click on his name...but the match reports for R09-10 credit L.Coombe with a goal in each game...no other details exist...
 

Kingpin

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#8
I've had a look through a 2009 TSL matchday program, there was a Will Coombe who wore number 34 for the Lauderdale reserves that year, however I seem to recall he was playing senior footy at Hobart later in that year under Graeme Fox. He was listed at Hobart in 2010 as well.
He was a red-headed fella, left sometime after that and I couldn't tell you where he went too.
His grandmother worked in a place recently that I used to do works for, she mentioned he was living interstate, Queensland from memory.
There was no "L".Coombe mentioned in the program.
 

Gibbke

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Thanks for that. I should rename this thread Gibbke's Perpetual Thread Of Stupid Questions. Here's another one - The Demons are North Hobart again. They are, however, still an entity with a share of a licence, as opposed to the original NHFC 2009-13 which had a full licence, so they are in effect still no different to Hobart City in that respect.

From the point of view of stats and club records:
1) Are we still continuing Hobart City's journey as a New North Hobart, or
2) Do we revert back to NH's history and acknowledge a gap from 2014-17, or
3) Should we just lump the entire history of NH/HC/New NH as all belonging to the one club?

Two historical precedents:
1) NH was the Hobart Demons for two decades ago, but this was just a name change, with no board differences.
2) When Art Modell took the original Cleveland Browns to Baltimore to become the Ravens, part of the deal was that he relinquished the Browns' history and identity and considered his team to be starting afresh. When Cleveland got a new team a few years later, they adopted the identity of old. The actual club itself physically ended up in Baltimore, however, and the new Browns were a completely new outfit that ended up playing against Ravens who were once the old Browns...

Thoughts? Kingpin, you'll know why I'm asking the question...!
 

Kingpin

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#10
Not such thing as stupid questions!
I totally get where you're coming from.
It's a vexing question because, as you point out, the same North Hobart Football Club that operated from 1881 until 2013 owned the licence (at least fully for the last couple of years) of the club known as Hobart City Demons.
North Hobart changed their name in early 1999 and played the 1999 and 2000 seasons to "Hobart" Demons under a commercial arrangement with their major sponsor at the time, Harris Scarfe Hobart and still referred to its North Hobart history, colours, playing uniform and colours.
They lost approximately 75% of their club's membership over the move though.
When the statewide league collapsed after 2000, North Hobart were forced to wear a different playing strip to their normal Melbourne strip because of Brighton (formerly Mangalore) using it in the SFL, they were wearing a Port Melbourne playing jumper as late as 2003 and resumed their normal jumper sometime after that.
In that era the North Launceston Robins changed their name of close to a century (at the start of the 1998 season) to the Northern Bombers but were still the North Launceston Football Club underneath (same playing strip, same colours, same team song, same home ground) and resumed being referred to as North Launceston some years later in the NTFL.
New Norfolk changed their name in about 1998/99 to the Derwent Eagles.
The club was originally known as Derwent in the early 1900s ironically and won the 1906 TFL premiership under that name before resuming as New Norfolk not long after that.
Their colours of Red, White and Black were used from their fourth year in the post-War TFL (1950) until their final year in the TFL in 1999.
When they were omitted from the Statewide League after 1999 with debts of over $430,000 and in an area (Derwent Valley) which was seen as economically struggling with a low-income demographic, they joined the SFL in 2000 as the New Norfolk "Derwent" Hawks (owing to Channel already wearing Red, White and Black and Sorell being known as the Eagles).
The name Derwent was dropped within weeks of them playing in the SFL and they continued as the New Norfolk Hawks, it wasn't until around 2002/2003 that they resumed being nicknamed the Eagles and playing in Red, White and Black again.
Still the same club but with different colours and name.
Hobart Football Club had been forced to stop referring to itself as the Tigers and wearing the Black with Gold sash (1945 to 1997 uniform) upon joining the SFL in 1998 because of Kingston (Kingborough Tigers) already using it in the SFL.
From 1998 to 2004 Hobart wore an all gold jumper with black numbers, black HFC monogram on the chest and had no nickname.
A mixture of new people in the club at the time and AFL Tasmania influence saw the club adopt the Brisbane Lions playing strip and emblem from 2005-2008.
It was still the same club, albeit a very fractured one at the time and when the opportunity to resume being known as the Hobart Tigers and a resumption of wearing the traditional strip presented itself when invited to join the TSL in late 2008, the club jumped at the chance straight away and is still known as this to this day.
In Hobart City's case, I believe that this is a SEPERATE entity from the original North Hobart club.
Sure, the NHFC owned 50% of it for a couple of years and then 100% for its last two to three years but Hobart City distanced itself to a large degree from the original club and the overriding fact for me that an independent board were running the club and there were no member voting rights says to me a takeover (a takeover which leeched the original clubs emblem, partly the colours, the team song and home ground).
To my mind, North Hobart went into recess after 2013 and will resume in 2018.
Hobart City Demons, in my view operated as a "new" club from 2014-2017 (not very successfully either it has to be said).
 
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Gibbke

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Thread starter #11
That's awesome - sorry to keep you up!

Another precedent, probably the best one, which slipped my mind last night, was the NRL Northern Eagles team, which was set up identically to NH/H between Manly and North Sydney. North Sydney dropped out after the second season, leaving Manly to run the licence on its own but still operating under the name NE, until the next year when the licence was reapplied for and Manly won it for itself.

This is just like NH, but the one thing for me that is the vexing question - is NH still playing under those licence conditions? If they are, it seems to me they are Hobart City under another name. The junior structures incorporated SB, H and NH - does this still happen? If the licence was renewed and NH won it outright, then we're back to the original NH no problem, but until it does, my instinct is that NHFC was replaced by a different entity in 2014 which still remains but will be coincidentally known as North Hobart from 2018...? How much importance do we place on off field board structures when considering team identity? The Browns obviously didn't, but the NRL did. Obviously NH-run HCity are all about the grand old flag, but what will the official position be...?

Edit - whoops, didn't see that last bit - NH now owns 100%? That kinda makes it conclusive that the actual NHFC is the team we'll see in 2018...? How should we describe 2014-15-16-17 then...?
 

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#12
A guy called L.Coombe played for Lauderdale in 2009. What was his first name?

There is a William Coombe listed under players in sportingpulse, who listed as not scoring in R11 when you click on his name...but the match reports for R09-10 credit L.Coombe with a goal in each game...no other details exist...

Lewis played for Lauderdale yes, that would be him. Will his older brother played for Hobart, and then went on to play with Lindisfarne and Dodges, now lives in QLD as correctly stated above. Lewis doesn't play footy anymore as far as i'm aware, works on the antarctic ships
 

Gibbke

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Thread starter #14
Next one:

Tigers kicked 7.6 (48) v Lauderdale on Saturday, August 2, 2014 (Round 15).

The goalkickers listed on Sportingpulse were B.Batchelor 3, T.Martyn & J.Lovell.

Anyone know who kicked the remaining two goals?
 

Ozguy

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#15
1) Are we still continuing Hobart City's journey as a New North Hobart, or
2) Do we revert back to NH's history and acknowledge a gap from 2014-17, or
3) Should we just lump the entire history of NH/HC/New NH as all belonging to the one club?
Can't believe I have never seen this thread. Only been going 5 years!

From AFL Tasmania's POV for statistical purposes in regards to the TSL, NH and HC are the same entity.
 

Ozguy

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#16
Next one:

Tigers kicked 7.6 (48) v Lauderdale on Saturday, August 2, 2014 (Round 15).

The goalkickers listed on Sportingpulse were B.Batchelor 3, T.Martyn & J.Lovell.

Anyone know who kicked the remaining two goals?
Harry Bradburn & Joshua Nichols
 

Gibbke

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Thread starter #17
Thanks man. Where did you get this from? I do have a few others, which I'll get to once I've done all goalkicking records (only a couple of seasons to go)...

Also, yeah, I did see something after I'd reconciled in my own head they should be treated basically as the North Hobart entity throughout, which confirmed it. This thread is my silly questions thread...resources are a bit more limited up here...!
 

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#18
Thanks man. Where did you get this from? I do have a few others, which I'll get to once I've done all goalkicking records (only a couple of seasons to go)...

Also, yeah, I did see something after I'd reconciled in my own head they should be treated basically as the North Hobart entity throughout, which confirmed it. This thread is my silly questions thread...resources are a bit more limited up here...!
I actually got them from Marcus Davies. Have all the goals reconciled for the full history of the current TSL.

Assuming one of your missing may be from Devonport 2010. Holy grail of goals lol
 

Gibbke

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Thread starter #19
Devonport 2010 is ok. 256 scored for the season, all accounted for. Not up to properly scrutinising 2017 yet, but I did a prelim count once and there's an entry in the unknown column. However, a quick headcount just then added up.

So far:
Devonport - 2017 1 unknown
Hobart - 2011 2 unknown R17-11-TCA HOB v NHOB
North Hobart - 4 unknown - 3 R03-11-TCA NHOB v HOB and 1 R01-11-LAU NHOB v LAUD
Tigers - the two you mention above, thanks for those...

Also, for 2010 North Launceston there are two Viney brothers, Adam and Anthony. Somewhere way back I got an 8-18 split respectively for their 26 goals, but when doing this only a few months ago, there was no distinction on most of the scoreboards and these two numbers don't present themselves anywhere. Looking for match accuracy for all 26 goals...

I'm starting 2016 for all teams, and have done 2017 in the past, probably when the season finished although I don't remember doing it or the process. Plenty of player names I'll need to chase up too...!
 

Ozguy

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#20
Devonport 2010 is ok. 256 scored for the season, all accounted for. Not up to properly scrutinising 2017 yet, but I did a prelim count once and there's an entry in the unknown column. However, a quick headcount just then added up.

So far:
Devonport - 2017 1 unknown
Hobart - 2011 2 unknown R17-11-TCA HOB v NHOB
North Hobart - 4 unknown - 3 R03-11-TCA NHOB v HOB and 1 R01-11-LAU NHOB v LAUD
Tigers - the two you mention above, thanks for those...

Also, for 2010 North Launceston there are two Viney brothers, Adam and Anthony. Somewhere way back I got an 8-18 split respectively for their 26 goals, but when doing this only a few months ago, there was no distinction on most of the scoreboards and these two numbers don't present themselves anywhere. Looking for match accuracy for all 26 goals...

I'm starting 2016 for all teams, and have done 2017 in the past, probably when the season finished although I don't remember doing it or the process. Plenty of player names I'll need to chase up too...!
Impressed that you got that Dev 2010 one!

Devonport - 2017

- Which Round?

Hobart - 2011 Rd 17

Michael Cassidy 2
Bryden Goninon 2
Aaron Hall 2
Jamie Clark
Danny Flood
Trent Harvey
Todd Willing

North Hobart - 2011 Rd 1

Missing Goal - Michael Fisher

North Hobart - 2011 Rd 3

Missing Goals - Julian Dobosz x 3

I actually had to find them from the original teamsheets, so can understand the issue,


North Launceston 2010

Vineys were actually 28 goals.

Adam
Rd 1 - 1
Rd 5 - 1
Rd 6 - 2
Rd 8 - 2
Rd 10 - 1
Rd 11 - 1
Rd 13 - 1
Rd 14 - 1
Rd 15 - 1
Rd 18 - 1

Total: 12

Anthony
Rd 3 - 4
Rd 4 - 1
Rd 6 - 2
Rd 9 - 2
Rd 11 - 3
Rd 14 - 2
Rd 15 - 2

Total: 16
 

Gibbke

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Thread starter #21
That's freaking awesome. Thank you.

Devonport 2017 - another quick scan, seems to check out again. Might be a false alarm...! I'm redoing them anyway, so I'll know in a week or two...school holidays + ex-tropical cyclone low means plenty of time indoors with nothing better to do...!

As for Vineys, yes, it was 28. I listed their guernsey numbers above accidentally, not their goal tallies...!

Gotta ask again, what's your source...?
 

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#22
That's freaking awesome. Thank you.

Devonport 2017 - another quick scan, seems to check out again. Might be a false alarm...! I'm redoing them anyway, so I'll know in a week or two...school holidays + ex-tropical cyclone low means plenty of time indoors with nothing better to do...!

As for Vineys, yes, it was 28. I listed their guernsey numbers above accidentally, not their goal tallies...!

Gotta ask again, what's your source...?
No worries at all.

All manual collation done by myself.
 

Gibbke

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Thread starter #23
No worries at all.

All manual collation done by myself.
Hey...got another one for you...!

2012 R17 at DEV - Glen v Dev - J.Arnold 1

2015 R04 at KGV - Glen v Laud - J.Arnold 2
2015 R05 at KGV - Glen v Lton - J.Arnold 1
2015 R06 at BEL - Glen v Clar - J.Arnold 1
2015 R08 at KTO - Glen v Tig - J.Arnold 1
2015 R13 at YP - Glen v WSt - J.Arnold 1
2015 R16 at YP - Glen v NLton - J.Arnold 1
2015 R18 at KGV - Glen v Burn - J.Arnold 1
2015 SF2 at BEL - Glen v Burn - J.Arnold 2

I'm pretty sure the 2012 game is Josh Arnold, but by 2015 Jordan Arnold had also joined the club. Could you please shed some light on who is who above...?
 

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#24
Hey...got another one for you...!

2012 R17 at DEV - Glen v Dev - J.Arnold 1 - Josh

2015 R04 at KGV - Glen v Laud - J.Arnold 2 - Jordan
2015 R05 at KGV - Glen v Lton - J.Arnold 1 - Jordan
2015 R06 at BEL - Glen v Clar - J.Arnold 1 - Jordan
2015 R08 at KTO - Glen v Tig - J.Arnold 1 - Jordan
2015 R13 at YP - Glen v WSt - J.Arnold 1 - Jordan
2015 R16 at YP - Glen v NLton - J.Arnold 1 - Jordan
2015 R18 at KGV - Glen v Burn - J.Arnold 1 - Josh
2015 SF2 at BEL - Glen v Burn - J.Arnold 2 - Josh

I'm pretty sure the 2012 game is Josh Arnold, but by 2015 Jordan Arnold had also joined the club. Could you please shed some light on who is who above...?
 

Gibbke

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Thread starter #25
Thanks, man. I'm finishing 2016 atm, and yup, same question will be asked about the Arnolds for 2016-17-18! Also, the Rainbirds. Sportingpulse has a few gaps. After that, there are about 20 players I can't find first names for...

Stop me at any time! Thanks for tolerating my pain-in-the-arse question barrage...
 
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