Firepower required

[Bojangles17]

watching last couple of games, I am confident that we are working toward building a good side with a pack of fleet footed runners we look competitive, without having any knockout blow.

Im yet to workout whether Richos current form is the 2007 version in the twilight or an underdone one. Has sarge any further scope within his game to kick more than 2 goals. Will ANYONE stand up and join Pettifer as a HFF that looks anything like kicking a goal.

I thought Meyer was recruited fgor this task, to date I remain ocncerned over what i hear, of the others taking their time in JON and co, they have some natural assets that will be refined in time...Apart from a snap or two there has been little from DM to get enthused about

A fit Nathan Brown would fill a massive void in the firepower dept. it's little wonder we recruited KK.

Back to the midfield, in the longer term we need another tough inside player in the mould of cogs...Tucky's workrate has gone backward...(TW was referring to him)....

Whats the bet that a couple of the low end pix fill these gaps, in collins for the midfield or a Peterson in the front half. Im woried that our recruiting has become a little hit and miss

 

[Maquis de Saad]

Smashed in the ruck. Made the difference.

 

[lids2004roar]

All recruiting is hit and miss.

About finding a HFF, wouldn't it be nice if Joel Bowden continued to play there? His kind of class and DELIVERY to other forwards would be fantastic. If he can go back to his creative goal kicking ways of his younger years he could be dominant.

AA HBF
AA CHB
AA HFF?

Has any other player in history made AA as a defender, a key position player AND as a forward? Joel Bowden could be the first

 

[ata40]

We are 0-2 could have been 2-0. We have 3 very key players out, and have been able to get into opportunistic positions.

In Polak, McGuane and even Moore we may be in a position to phase out Gasper and Hall at year end. With Graham and Pattison the same could be the case with Knobel. We may not need to play our insurance card in Kingsley for Schultz.

If we can;

• continue the improvement in Deledio, Tambling, Polo, Raines Howat etc.
• be in a postion to retire Gaspar, Hall and Knobel at year end
• get some decent game time into the 2nd year recruits
• eradicate the 100 point drubbings

then 2007 will be a very good year irrespective of even a 6/16 win/loss ratio!

 

[santa claws]

We are 0-2 could have been 2-0. We have 3 very key players out, and have been able to get into opportunistic positions.

In Polak, McGuane and even Moore we may be in a position to phase out Gasper and Hall at year end. With Graham and Pattison the same could be the case with Knobel. We may not need to play our insurance card in Kingsley for Schultz.

If we can;

• continue the improvement in Deledio, Tambling, Polo, Raines Howat etc.
• be in a postion to retire Gaspar, Hall and Knobel at year end
• get some decent game time into the 2nd year recruits
• eradicate the 100 point drubbings

then 2007 will be a very good year irrespective of even a 6/16 win/loss ratio!

sheesh we have 3 key players out and we cant cope. what a cop out.what the hells going to happen if we have 18 out at one time like brisbane did last yr. plain and simple we dont have the mid range cattle and most of the older mid range arent good enough.we should be playing as many kids as possible.

gaspar hall and polak the only genuine big bodied kpd on the entire list.along with knobel one of only 2 genuine ruckmen on the list its easy to say lets phase them out but you have to have the players in the system to take their place.we dont. mcguane and moore are running 3rd tall types and mcguane is a forward. any way imo he will end up forward.
i also believe polak will play chf. in time i think riewoldt will play chb. add to this pattison being a kpp and part time ruckman a sort of claytons ruckman if you like and graham at this stage looking more likely to be delisted at yrs end than kept. how the hell do we phase out the duds. you actually have to have players at the appropriate stages of develpment on your list to do this.
lastly as much as it pains me say it but kingsley is a far far better option than schulz at this stage. if schulz continues as he has so far i dont expect him to be with us come yrs end.

 

[Rayzorwire]

We are 0-2 could have been 2-0. We have 3 very key players out, and have been able to get into opportunistic positions.

In Polak, McGuane and even Moore we may be in a position to phase out Gasper and Hall at year end. With Graham and Pattison the same could be the case with Knobel. We may not need to play our insurance card in Kingsley for Schultz.

Schulz is some hope to make Kingsley redundant ata (I seriously hope so), Gaspar is replaceable, but Hall certainly isn't.

At 26 and capable of filling roles forward, back and in the ruck, assuming he can get back to full fitness, he's a very handy player to have around on virtually minimum wage. As the injuries to Simmonds and Knobel have shown us, we're only a couple of injuries to key talls away from being a bottom-4 side.

Knobel may well be out for most or all of the season, so if we are to play Polak at CHB which he was recruited for, Hall is certainly (as Wallace has said) the next best ruck option we have.

Gaspar spent a fair portion of last year injured, Polak has a history of knee troubles, Schulz has spent more time injured than playing, Richo is ageing and always pushes himself to the physical limit, Kingsley has a long history of soft tissue injuries, Moore has struggled with injuries...it's not a situation where you dump a bloke like Hall who's at his prime playing age and has filled every KP position on the ground at one time or another.

As for Knobel, I think when he's fit he's as capable as the best 2nd ruckmen in the league, better than several of the 1st ruckmen, and good value for the money he's on. Of course, that's only of any worth or relevance if he can get on the park!

We have to weigh up at season's end how he's performed (if at all), how chronic his injury woes are, how Hall has performed in his stead once fit again (and whether he's more needed elsewhere), whether or not Pattison will ever be good enough to be a 2nd ruckman (I doubt it) and how close he is to achieving that, plus how close Graham is.

We got Knobel in the first place because it's not easy to get a decent mature ruckman via the trading table without paying well and truly over the odds for them, so trade is not an option we're likely to take IMO. It's a good year for ruckman come draft time, so we may well take that route and make do with what we have in the years until that selection(s) is ready.

 

[Rayzorwire]

i also believe polak will play chf. in time i think riewoldt will play chb.

Why play the bloke who is a reliable shot for goal at CHB and the one who isn't at CHF santa?

lastly as much as it pains me say it but kingsley is a far far better option than schulz at this stage. if schulz continues as he has so far i dont expect him to be with us come yrs end.

Bit harsh mate...if Brown had drifted in and out of the last two games and kicked two in each from limited opportunities, we'd be happy with that. Sarge is coming off a limited pre-season and hasn't had much opportunity to annually increase his fitness base in past seasons...he's going quite alright so far.

I sincerely hope he gets 22 games in and goes some way to developing into the player we all know he has the potential to be. Barry Hall wasn't any better performed at the same age...Schulz is worth persisting with for the same reasons - big unit, lovely kick for goal, good mark on the lead or in a pack (arguably he's already a better aerialist than Hall will ever be) and has that touch of aggression and physical presence which never goes astray.

 

[Vince Spadea]

Has any other player in history made AA as a defender, a key position player AND as a forward? Joel Bowden could be the first

The Pav.

 

[Bojangles17]

At 26 and capable of filling roles forward, back and in the ruck, assuming he can get back to full fitness, he's a very handy player to have around on virtually minimum wage. As the injuries to Simmonds and Knobel have shown us, we're only a couple of injuries to key talls away from being a bottom-4 side.

.

the way Mcguane and Moore are playing, and thursty due back, Hall will be lucky to be around much longer...give ya brother a slap on the back for us too

 

[PLSC]

Schulz is some hope to make Kingsley redundant ata (I seriously hope so), Gaspar is replaceable, but Hall certainly isn't.

At 26 and capable of filling roles forward, back and in the ruck, assuming he can get back to full fitness, he's a very handy player to have around on virtually minimum wage. As the injuries to Simmonds and Knobel have shown us, we're only a couple of injuries to key talls away from being a bottom-4 side.

Knobel may well be out for most or all of the season, so if we are to play Polak at CHB which he was recruited for, Hall is certainly (as Wallace has said) the next best ruck option we have.

Gaspar spent a fair portion of last year injured, Polak has a history of knee troubles, Schulz has spent more time injured than playing, Richo is ageing and always pushes himself to the physical limit, Kingsley has a long history of soft tissue injuries, Moore has struggled with injuries...it's not a situation where you dump a bloke like Hall who's at his prime playing age and has filled every KP position on the ground at one time or another.

As for Knobel, I think when he's fit he's as capable as the best 2nd ruckmen in the league, better than several of the 1st ruckmen, and good value for the money he's on. Of course, that's only of any worth or relevance if he can get on the park!

We have to weigh up at season's end how he's performed (if at all), how chronic his injury woes are, how Hall has performed in his stead once fit again (and whether he's more needed elsewhere), whether or not Pattison will ever be good enough to be a 2nd ruckman (I doubt it) and how close he is to achieving that, plus how close Graham is.

We got Knobel in the first place because it's not easy to get a decent mature ruckman via the trading table without paying well and truly over the odds for them, so trade is not an option we're likely to take IMO. It's a good year for ruckman come draft time, so we may well take that route and make do with what we have in the years until that selection(s) is ready.

lol at a bloke called rayzorwire pumping up big ray o

the guy is a dud that has been blessed with a body termed "versatile"

versatile to be crap in many positions!

 

[Rayzorwire]

the way Mcguane and Moore are playing, and thursty due back, Hall will be lucky to be around much longer...give ya brother a slap on the back for us too

I don't think either McGuane or Moore are that likely as KP defenders Bojangles...I think they're both fighting for the 3rd defender role, or if both are in the best 22 a couple of years from now, Mcguane may well be used as a forward.

Regardless of how they perform (and neither has come remotely close to succeeding on a top KP forward yet...and neither has Polak...again, yet), for the reasons I outlined above, Hall is very much a required depth player.

FWIW, while some hail Polak as a genuine CHF option, most forget Hall has a far better record as a forward from limited opportunities - and that was 4-5 years ago...since then the only time he's played there he kicked 3 straight (including one from 55m out) in a half of football and won a brownlow vote for his efforts.

I'm sure he'd be relieved to have a run there again, or on a wing where he can cause matchup difficulties and use his endurance to good effect, rather than be expected to be a sit and sprint topline defender...copping the opposition best forward week after week playing for a team which had the competition's worst midfield and a defense that could seldom organise itself well enough to lend the key defenders with horror match-ups the occasional chop-out.

 

[IDGAF]

We are 0-2 could have been 2-0. We have 3 very key players out, and have been able to get into opportunistic positions.

In Polak, McGuane and even Moore we may be in a position to phase out Gasper and Hall at year end. With Graham and Pattison the same could be the case with Knobel. We may not need to play our insurance card in Kingsley for Schultz.

If we can;

• continue the improvement in Deledio, Tambling, Polo, Raines Howat etc.
• be in a postion to retire Gaspar, Hall and Knobel at year end
• get some decent game time into the 2nd year recruits
• eradicate the 100 point drubbings

then 2007 will be a very good year irrespective of even a 6/16 win/loss ratio!

Very good post

back to Bo`s original post ... Meyer is a concern , and to a lesser extent Pattison is as well , but time is still on his side , talls take longer .

 

[Rayzorwire]

lol at a bloke called rayzorwire pumping up big ray o

the guy is a dud that has been blessed with a body termed "versatile"

versatile to be crap in many positions!

Take a realistic view of the situation PLSC. Hall was selected at 72 as a speculative possible back-up ruckman to Ottens.

Since then, due to our drafting, trading follies and utter lack of depth, he's been expected to somehow become a topline defender. How many late-pick back-up ruckman could even dream of competing for pace and skill with the league's elite forwards? I can't think of any. And I dare say that if you were forced to play Simmonds (similar height, pace and build) there he'd get flogged now and again under the same circumstances Hall faced.

That wouldn't make Simmonds a 'dud', it'd make him a player being played out of position through necessity.

Hall's provided good value for where he was selected (better than almost all of our selections from that era) and what he's paid, gives his all for the club under typically difficult circumstances where supporters apparently expect consistently elite performances from a 5th round draft pick on minimum wage, and he'll hopefully provide lots more good value for the club in years to come.

 

[santa claws]

Why play the bloke who is a reliable shot for goal at CHB and the one who isn't at CHF santa?




Bit harsh mate...if Brown had drifted in and out of the last two games and kicked two in each from limited opportunities, we'd be happy with that. Sarge is coming off a limited pre-season and hasn't had much opportunity to annually increase his fitness base in past seasons...he's going quite alright so far.

I sincerely hope he gets 22 games in and goes some way to developing into the player we all know he has the potential to be. Barry Hall wasn't any better performed at the same age...Schulz is worth persisting with for the same reasons - big unit, lovely kick for goal, good mark on the lead or in a pack (arguably he's already a better aerialist than Hall will ever be) and has that touch of aggression and physical presence which never goes astray.

agree his kicking at goal leaves a lot to be desired.but everything ive seen of him and thats a fair bit tells me polak is not a backman. besides wallace thinks the same just look at the preseason.
on schulz he has not improved one iota since his debut season. once again i think wallace agrees with me based on comments he made before he took over and the fact he recruited kingsley. most people assume it was backup for richo but imo it was to compensate for schulz.

we should do the unrichmond like thing and trade schulz at yrs end while he still has some worth. more than likely though we will do the richmond thing and hang onto him until he no value left.

a question for you there would have to be over 100 players on all teams list 190cm genuine tall in schulzs age group 22 or under. go thru them and place where you think schulz is in the scheme of things i think you will be shocked at where you rank him.

 

[Bojangles17]

Very good post

back to Bo`s original post ... Meyer is a concern , and to a lesser extent Pattison is as well , but time is still on his side , talls take longer .

I think Patto will prove to be ok, his form at this point prob not too dissimilar to simmonds at melbourne so time very much on his side, has a good work ethic and some ability.

My question over the recruiting decisions is the penchant for wil'o the wisp types rather than industrious hard working inside midfielder. I hope Im wrong but selecting JON and Meyer in the first round simply doesnt add up.

In building a side, wouldn't it make sense to put the foundations in place, like recruiting midfielders that can find the aggot (err, Meyer that aint)...or KPP that can make an impact on a game (err, JON is that you?)....These types in Danny Meyer and JON are icing on the cake types that would be more ideally suited to a list like West Coasts. I get the feeling that Francis Jackson maybe on this page with the 2006 selections...prior to that I reckon Miller was using the Beck style lucky dip method..i hope it hasn't set us back

 

[tigerT]

agree his kicking at goal leaves a lot to be desired.but everything ive seen of him and thats a fair bit tells me polak is not a backman. besides wallace thinks the same just look at the preseason.
on schulz he has not improved one iota since his debut season. once again i think wallace agrees with me based on comments he made before he took over and the fact he recruited kingsley. most people assume it was backup for richo but imo it was to compensate for schulz.

we should do the unrichmond like thing and trade schulz at yrs end while he still has some worth. more than likely though we will do the richmond thing and hang onto him until he no value left.

a question for you there would have to be over 100 players on all teams list 190cm genuine tall in schulzs age group 22 or under. go thru them and place where you think schulz is in the scheme of things i think you will be shocked at where you rank him.

Polak is a natural forward but wont play there until he learns the caper at CHB, He will spend the majority of this season and next at CHB pinch hitting up forward. Once he gets mileage and confidence he'll move to CHF.

Schulz, I think you are deadset wrong about him. He has been butchered with injuries in just about every season to date. Let him have just 1 season where he puts together 20-22 games and then we'll see where he's at. He's a super kick at goal and leads to the RIGHT places ie straight up the friggen corridor, we havent had a natural FF that can do that since the good ol days. His contested marking ability is quality, he has loads of courage and he has mongrel. He's also athletic and quick for a big guy. These attributes on their own are enough to warrant a spot on the list as well as suggest he can be a gem.

Ridiculous to suggest Wallace brought Kent in purely bc Schulz is a dud. Scraping the bottom of the barrel with that one.

if he continues on at current rates he'll kick 40 goals this season with about 50-60% TOG. Hardly pathetic.

 

[Rayzorwire]

agree his kicking at goal leaves a lot to be desired.but everything ive seen of him and thats a fair bit tells me polak is not a backman. besides wallace thinks the same just look at the preseason.

Maybe down the track Polak will be used forward santa...but there would be days it would be a recipe for disaster having he and Richo kicking for goal in the same forward line huh?

I'm not sure Reiwoldt will be better suited at CHB...like Polak his marking is a key strength...Reiwoldt's a much better shot for goal already.

We've had injuries through the preseason...in our only competitive match (NAB Cup) with a genuine ruckman playing, Polak played down back. I'm not sure what we've seen so far is a good guage of Wallace's thinking re Polak's positioning...though I don't doubt he may try to fill a hole there with him when it suits.

I suspect that this year we may see a three-way rotation going between Simmonds, Polak and Hall in the ruck, with Polak and Hall also rotated between CHB and CHF. Pattison may also be included in that group somewhere...Wallace loves to mix things up a lot.

FWIW, Shulz debuted in 2003 - not the year he kicked 6, which was 2004. Since 2004 he's only played 18 games and rarely had his body right in that period. I think that if he stays fit, he may well surprise a few this year.

a question for you there would have to be over 100 players on all teams list 190cm genuine tall in schulzs age group 22 or under. go thru them and place where you think schulz is in the scheme of things i think you will be shocked at where you rank him.

Well, I'd rank him on potential and I'd be ranking a lot of others on potential too, so it's all hypothetical eh?

I think that being a KP who has had a very bad run with injuries, he merits a little more patience...I'm sure we both hope for the sake of our list that you're wrong about him and also hope he can prove it very soon.