Review First 10 Weeks

[turtle27]

but being honest and realistic is something that is abhorrant to rfc supporters.

What's abhorrent is you continually posting your opinion as fact. Have the balls to list these 23 players, something that I could bet my last dollar on you not doing, and then we'll pick through the list and give our opinions on whether we agree or disagree, at which point you'll no doubt tell us again we're being dishonest and unrealistic.

 

[MightyTiger]

What's abhorrent is you continually posting your opinion as fact. Have the balls to list these 23 players, something that I could bet my last dollar on you not doing, and then we'll pick through the list and give our opinions on whether we agree or disagree, at which point you'll no doubt tell us again we're being dishonest and unrealistic.

turtle I've already had a discussion about this with SC, he lists a bunch of rookies and fringe players and thinks he's the new Terry Wallace 'The List Manager', when in fact any person with a modicum of knowledge could point out the obvious like he does.

I think he's just hurt that King, Nahas et al keep getting regular games and the kids he thinks should be playing are barely VFL standard at the moment.

 

[Googstar]

Wow 10 weeks !

The good. Grimesy (yes he played 1 last year), Conca, Batchelor & Helbig debut season. Robbie Nahas take a bow. I am starting to rethink my position on Rance. Beating the bummers...........so good I am going to type it again..........beating the bummers. Go on do it, you will feel better. The spread of goalkickers. The rise and rise of Cotchin. Foley returning from injury and having an impact. The Fighting Tiger Fund.

The bad. Don't mention the Port game (I did once but I think I got away with it). Defense or lack thereof (yes I am looking at you midfielders as well). Taylor going AWOL. Morton & Nason MIA.

 

[santa claws]

turtle I've already had a discussion about this with SC, he lists a bunch of rookies and fringe players and thinks he's the new Terry Wallace 'The List Manager', when in fact any person with a modicum of knowledge could point out the obvious like he does.

I think he's just hurt that King, Nahas et al keep getting regular games and the kids he thinks should be playing are barely VFL standard at the moment.

lol well name the 20 then.

and nice try at the end of 09 the yr hardwick took over every player that was ultimately delisted i called for his head, in the main and in most instances a couple of seasons before hand.same for last yr. while ferals like your good self have defended the tivendalles and nahas and kings krakouers i was calling it early. joel bowden johnson i wanted gone well before they ultimately went same for browny and many others.
unlike most on here i think it important we can make a call on players after 2 or 3 maybe 4 seasons max. surely we dont need to watch players for more than this to work out if they are good enough.

made the call on graham how long ago now. thursfield a couple of seasons ago mcguane after just 3 seasons edwardss is another and white ive wanted gone for a long time. at the end of the day i call em early and in the main over the yrs when it comes to our players ive been proved right more often than not. now its this that gets up your goat and others like you i can just fall back and say hey but i am right and have been shown to be right most of the time.

of course i get some wrong like everyone else i dont claim otherwise.
you say i have got king and nahas wrong well lets wait and see what father time says about that. as far as im concerned both are very limited players and are exactly the type we should be looking to upgrade on if not this yr definately in 2 or 3 seasons.well king anyway nahas well hes now going to have to maintain where hes at to prove hes really arrived. but thats fine for most nahas has arrived based on what i dont know seems 4 or 5 decent games is enough for most.

yep 20 to 23 i can see gone in 3 yrs thats not to say some will prove me wrong. some are young and been in the system a very short time and i have constantly stayed away from criticising these kids and called for patience. i have never called for a kids head after one yr rarlely after 2 in the main especially with talls ive been prepared to wait 4.

i base everyting on strengths and weaknesses first and foremost age size height and performance.

you want to know who i think are a good chance to be gone within 3 yrs well you know most of them already after all anyone with a modicum of knowledge can do it most are so obvious.

 

[Azzleberry]

lol well name the 20 then.

and nice try at the end of 09 the yr hardwick took over every player that was ultimately delisted i called for his head, in the main and in most instances a couple of seasons before hand.same for last yr. while ferals like your good self have defended the tivendalles and nahas and kings krakouers i was calling it early. joel bowden johnson i wanted gone well before they ultimately went same for browny and many others.
unlike most on here i think it important we can make a call on players after 2 or 3 maybe 4 seasons max. surely we dont need to watch players for more than this to work out if they are good enough.

made the call on graham how long ago now. thursfield a couple of seasons ago mcguane after just 3 seasons edwardss is another and white ive wanted gone for a long time. at the end of the day i call em early and in the main over the yrs when it comes to our players ive been proved right more often than not. now its this that gets up your goat and others like you i can just fall back and say hey but i am right and have been shown to be right most of the time.

of course i get some wrong like everyone else i dont claim otherwise.
you say i have got king and nahas wrong well lets wait and see what father time says about that. as far as im concerned both are very limited players and are exactly the type we should be looking to upgrade on if not this yr definately in 2 or 3 seasons.well king anyway nahas well hes now going to have to maintain where hes at to prove hes really arrived. but thats fine for most nahas has arrived based on what i dont know seems 4 or 5 decent games is enough for most.

yep 20 to 23 i can see gone in 3 yrs thats not to say some will prove me wrong. some are young and been in the system a very short time and i have constantly stayed away from criticising these kids and called for patience. i have never called for a kids head after one yr rarlely after 2 in the main especially with talls ive been prepared to wait 4.

i base everyting on strengths and weaknesses first and foremost age size height and performance.

you want to know who i think are a good chance to be gone within 3 yrs well you know most of them already after all anyone with a modicum of knowledge can do it most are so obvious.

You mentioned 7 current players above. Far stretch from your 23.. NAME THEM!!!!!!
You also mentioned Joel Bowden and Kane Johnson as well. Fact is, Bowden will be remembered as great Richmond players and Johnson more of a leader/mentor.

 

[_RT_]

You mentioned 7 current players above. Far stretch from your 23.. NAME THEM!!!!!!
You also mentioned Joel Bowden and Kane Johnson as well. Fact is, Bowden will be remembered as great Richmond players and Johnson more of a leader/mentor.

What I find amusing is claiming making a call on players like Johnson Brown and Bowden who were approaching the end of the careers is right.

 

[santa claws]

What I find amusing is claiming making a call on players like Johnson Brown and Bowden who were approaching the end of the careers is right.

some of us were critical in taking them in the first place plus there were a few of us who got into huge debates about their worth well before they retired.
i suppose that doesnt count then typical of you rt wanting the cake and eating it.
joel bowden didnt get the tag joelene for no reason. at the end of the day where did we get with these blokes and where are we at now with the myriad of ordinary players that are defended today. want to talk bottom lines well thats measured in success isnt it.
we apparently have a top list yet we just got pantsed by port adelaide and we could realistically be 1 and 9 on the season. or are you telling me ess nm and bl were no chance to win, are you saying their supporters have no right to say that they were a bit stiff.athese sides had serios injury concerns yet we struggle to get over them. how do you gauge the worthiness of wins like that.

theres one true gauge how well you consistently go against the good sides seems to me we are consistently poor when we front them.

im not the one who passed aspersions about how easy it is to pick who will or wont make it nope all i have done is defend my stance.as iwill continue to do so until im proven wrong
i happen to think over the next 3 yrs we can turn over as many as 23 we can bank on 13 as a certainty. it all comes down to how you rate our players you and most others obviously rate them higher than i do but the only way we will find out whos right is wait 3 yrs.

 

[Bazzar]

i happen to think over the next 3 yrs we can turn over as many as 23 we can bank on 13 as a certainty.

So 23 is a cop out, and now its 13? Whats next, Friday it will be 9?

 

[santa claws]

So 23 is a cop out, and now its 13? Whats next, Friday it will be 9?

no as many as 23 could go in the next 3 yrs are you thick how many times does it need saying.
as someone else said on this thread in that time we are assured of turning over at least 13. as i have no inclination to play silly games with people i was suggesting we stick to what we know for fact 13 will DEFINATELY BE GONE AS A MINIMUM.All else will only derail any sort of debate as i have already stated. if people really want to know who i think will should go they only need to loo at my posts on this board and they will have a damn good idea. ive been pretty constant.

so who are the most likely 13 to go in the next 3 yrs. again most are pretty easy.you blokes dont need me to hold your hands you jst need to be honest.

where are you MT you too can put your balls on the line after all its just 13 and apparently those 13 are really really obvious.

 

[MightyTiger]

lol well name the 20 then.

I'm not the one who is saying there is about 23 players who could be de-listed, you made the call, people are now asking for you to name the players or don't bother making the statement.

And when we did have this discussion a little while back I asked the exact same thing and the only thing you did was name Rookies and Fringe players, it wasn't anything nobody already didn't know and couldn't figure out for themselves.

 

[MightyTiger]

no as many as 23 could go in the next 3 yrs are you thick how many times does it need saying.
as someone else said on this thread in that time we are assured of turning over at least 13. as i have no inclination to play silly games with people i was suggesting we stick to what we know for fact 13 will DEFINATELY BE GONE AS A MINIMUM.All else will only derail any sort of debate as i have already stated. if people really want to know who i think will should go they only need to loo at my posts on this board and they will have a damn good idea. ive been pretty constant.

so who are the most likely 13 to go in the next 3 yrs. again most are pretty easy.you blokes dont need me to hold your hands you jst need to be honest.

where are you MT you too can put your balls on the line after all its just 13 and apparently those 13 are really really obvious.

Every year a list gets turned over, a minimum of 4-5 mainly from the Rookie list and a couple of fringe players, of course over a 3 year period players iwll be turned over.

Hicks
Westhoff
Gourdis
White (Needs to keep improving for the year)
Taylor
Tuck
Thursfield
Webberley (Although I really rate this kid and hopefully he finds a spot in the senior side)

And then you have players who over time should be weeded out of the senior side.

McGuane
Graham
King (is 27 but I see him keeping his spot on form for the next 3 years easily)
Nahas (Needs to keep improving cant rest on his laurels)
Miller
Browne (Depending on how he improves in the next 3-5 years)
Rance (Needs to keep improving the next 2-3 years will show us where he's at)
Farmer (Really impressed by his 2010 form but needs to build on that into 2012)

And then you have players like

Hislop (Cant see him being de-listed at the end of the year 2012 will show us where he's at)
Contin (Needs a couple more years)
Jakobi (Rate this kid highly but as a midfielder he needs to show improvement in the next 2-3 years)
O'Reilly (Like this kid a lot but he has a lot of competition for the position he plays)
Dea (I see him in the position as O'Reilly, hopefully he can get over his injuries so he can push for selection)
Post (Has had 3 years in the system now, can only see him lasting another 1-2 years if he doesn't pull the finger out extremely talented kid)


I've put my balls on the line time for you to stand up, this list took me 5 minutes to put together without even really thinking, our turn over rate with our list will be slightly higher then other clubs but nothing out of the norm.

 

[santa claws]

I'm not the one who is saying there is about 23 players who could be de-listed, you made the call, people are now asking for you to name the players or don't bother making the statement.

And when we did have this discussion a little while back I asked the exact same thing and the only thing you did was name Rookies and Fringe players, it wasn't anything nobody already didn't know and couldn't figure out for themselves.

lol so you want me to put it out there so you can criticise, but wont do the same. as i have said several times i think there are as many as 23 who could should be turned over in 3 yrs. you keep telling me its obvious. i think all this yr my thoughts on how many may be turned over has been around 20 in fact its been constant for a few yrs and was much higher at one stage.are you saying they are all rookies or fringe players now thats funny. you rate the list worse than me.
perhaps you read only what you want to see.

cmon ive made it easy for you we all know 13 will be turned over minimum not prepared to speculate who that 13 may be.

i tell you what i will make it easy for you the 13 most likely to be gone are.
tuck - age.
newman - age.
miller - age and ordinary.
white - dud.
graham - dud. sheesh pretty obvious so far.
hicks - size.
hislop - kicking pace.
gourdis - kicking temperament.
mcguane - dud.
thursfield - limited, size.
taylor - mind set.
farmer - pace and hes done stuff all in how long.
edwards - to many deficiencies for a player his size.
connors - pace attitude and decision making.
sheesh i got carried away thats 14 and nearly didnt stop.

hardly a rookie there and ya know what fringe players and rookies should be prominent in any list for such obvious reasons shame on you for suggesting other wise .are you saying we should get rid of half decent players.

any way theres a list of 13 no 14 theres obviously others who could take their place. but as stated i refuse to be cannon fodder for those who dont have the balls to put up themselves.

 

[santa claws]

Every year a list gets turned over, a minimum of 4-5 mainly from the Rookie list and a couple of fringe players, of course over a 3 year period players iwll be turned over.

Hicks
Westhoff
Gourdis
White (Needs to keep improving for the year)
Taylor
Tuck
Thursfield
Webberley (Although I really rate this kid and hopefully he finds a spot in the senior side)

And then you have players who over time should be weeded out of the senior side.

McGuane
Graham
King (is 27 but I see him keeping his spot on form for the next 3 years easily)
Nahas (Needs to keep improving cant rest on his laurels)
Miller
Browne (Depending on how he improves in the next 3-5 years)
Rance (Needs to keep improving the next 2-3 years will show us where he's at)
Farmer (Really impressed by his 2010 form but needs to build on that into 2012)

And then you have players like

Hislop (Cant see him being de-listed at the end of the year 2012 will show us where he's at)
Contin (Needs a couple more years)
Jakobi (Rate this kid highly but as a midfielder he needs to show improvement in the next 2-3 years)
O'Reilly (Like this kid a lot but he has a lot of competition for the position he plays)
Dea (I see him in the position as O'Reilly, hopefully he can get over his injuries so he can push for selection)
Post (Has had 3 years in the system now, can only see him lasting another 1-2 years if he doesn't pull the finger out extremely talented kid)


I've put my balls on the line time for you to stand up, this list took me 5 minutes to put together without even really thinking, our turn over rate with our list will be slightly higher then other clubs but nothing out of the norm.

hooray you do have ball. sheesh not many top notch selections there.

 

[_RT_]

some of us were critical in taking them in the first place plus there were a few of us who got into huge debates about their worth well before they retired.
i suppose that doesnt count then typical of you rt wanting the cake and eating it.
joel bowden didnt get the tag joelene for no reason. at the end of the day where did we get with these blokes and where are we at now with the myriad of ordinary players that are defended today. want to talk bottom lines well thats measured in success isnt it.
we apparently have a top list yet we just got pantsed by port adelaide and we could realistically be 1 and 9 on the season. or are you telling me ess nm and bl were no chance to win, are you saying their supporters have no right to say that they were a bit stiff.athese sides had serios injury concerns yet we struggle to get over them. how do you gauge the worthiness of wins like that.

theres one true gauge how well you consistently go against the good sides seems to me we are consistently poor when we front them.

im not the one who passed aspersions about how easy it is to pick who will or wont make it nope all i have done is defend my stance.as iwill continue to do so until im proven wrong
i happen to think over the next 3 yrs we can turn over as many as 23 we can bank on 13 as a certainty. it all comes down to how you rate our players you and most others obviously rate them higher than i do but the only way we will find out whos right is wait 3 yrs.

You accuse me of wanting my cake and eating it yet I could say much the same thing to you.

You constantly claim that our list isn't that great and when we happen to win you make excuses for us winning games i.e. other team had injuries or some other issue that caused them to lose rather than us winning on merit.

While I realise that our list isn't a genuine top 8 contender I do think that it is much better than where it was 18 months ago. As for how I gauge the wins against the sides we've beaten this year.

North - first win with a young side against a side equally as desperate to win. Not a pretty win, but if we want to get better we need to beat middle of the road sides like North.
Brisbane - again a tough arm wrestle with another side that was desperate for a win. While missing Brown I still think we would have beaten them down here if he was playing.
Fremantle - arm wrestle for a half but in the end we were able to overrun them which is a good sign from a young side.
Essendon - despite a few injuries they were still pretty confident heading into the game, the pleasing thing is our young side was able to stand up when they made a run early in the last quarter and were able to steady and hold on. Again a good sign for a young side that is developing and learning how to win games.

Again I realise we're not a genuine contender for the 8, but there are some good things you can take from each of the wins that shows that we're on the right track.

 

[MightyTiger]

hooray you do have ball. sheesh not many top notch selections there.

We aren't the only club who cleans out it's list at the end of the year, you make it sound like the players listed are all Best 22, when maybe 3-5 players on that list regularly get a gig in the side due to not having better options.

As I said previously stating the obvious and naming Rookies/Fringe players isn't really a big call, it's not even really insightful either as you end up looking like a douche for stating the obvious.

I think we need another solid draft to really weed up some of the fringe players from the team and then another one to really get some depth into the squad and start pushing for the top4.

 

[Bazzar]

no as many as 23 could go in the next 3 yrs are you thick how many times does it need saying.

Yes i am thick, thats why i need you to give me guidance and tell me who the 23 are. You gave 14, but your still short 9 players.

Stop avoiding the question and just tell us.

 

[santa claws]

you make it sound like the players listed are all Best 22, .

did i dont see where i said that at all. all i said was as many as 23 could go over a three yr period. and others questioned that and asked who.
enter MT who comes charging in like a fool trying to do what. yep good question what was you trying to do oh yeah take a cheap shot and in the end your forced to admit that just maybe we might turn over 23. oh dear me we do look rather foolish.and you did it rather easily to boot. well done.

 

[MightyTiger]

did i dont see where i said that at all. all i said was as many as 23 could go over a three yr period. and others questioned that and asked who.
enter MT who comes charging in like a fool trying to do what. yep good question what was you trying to do oh yeah take a cheap shot and in the end your forced to admit that just maybe we might turn over 23. oh dear me we do look rather foolish.and you did it rather easily to boot. well done.

I wasn't forced to admit anything, I was simply answering something that you failed to do, and as it was you don't have to be a genius to figure it out.

As I said previously pointing out the obvious does nothing but make you look like a douche, we will most likely turn over about 5-8 players this year and then maybe 3-5 every year after that, that's standard list management, nothing about having to have some sort of vast knowledge of the game, it's standard practice.

And oh yeah look who's trying to take a cheap shot now by calling me a fool.

Hey I guess if pointing out the obvious these days means you are some sort of List management Draft/Trading manager guru then your average joe could do it, no need to pay people decent wage to figure that one out.

 

[santa claws]

I wasn't forced to admit anything, I was simply answering something that you failed to do, and as it was you don't have to be a genius to figure it out.

As I said previously pointing out the obvious does nothing but make you look like a douche, we will most likely turn over about 5-8 players this year and then maybe 3-5 every year after that, that's standard list management, nothing about having to have some sort of vast knowledge of the game, it's standard practice.

And oh yeah look who's trying to take a cheap shot now by calling me a fool.

Hey I guess if pointing out the obvious these days means you are some sort of List management Draft/Trading manager guru then your average joe could do it, no need to pay people decent wage to figure that one out.

now now MT the holes just getting bigger.admit it you were wrong you tried to big note and now you have to eat humble pie. how many names did you come up with again in just 5 minutes.
i dont claim to be anything and i agree the 23 names a couple of which by the way was not on my list was easy to come up with. your the one pushing that barrow.
perhaps you should do it more often as it seems theres a few who scoff at the suggestion of turning 20 odd over.

any way im off to bed enjoy your pie.

 

[MightyTiger]

Don't forget to take your meds old man, and be sure to rub those dentures real good so they don't stain.

 

[turtle27]

Well done Santa, you've confirmed with us that you have at least one nut by naming a reasonably obvious 14. We'll await for the other to drop and for you to name the last 9.

Hicks
Westhoff
Gourdis
White (Needs to keep improving for the year)
Taylor
Tuck
Thursfield
Webberley (Although I really rate this kid and hopefully he finds a spot in the senior side)

And then you have players who over time should be weeded out of the senior side.

McGuane
Graham
King (is 27 but I see him keeping his spot on form for the next 3 years easily)
Nahas (Needs to keep improving cant rest on his laurels)
Miller
Browne (Depending on how he improves in the next 3-5 years)
Rance (Needs to keep improving the next 2-3 years will show us where he's at)
Farmer (Really impressed by his 2010 form but needs to build on that into 2012)

And then you have players like

Hislop (Cant see him being de-listed at the end of the year 2012 will show us where he's at)
Contin (Needs a couple more years)
Jakobi (Rate this kid highly but as a midfielder he needs to show improvement in the next 2-3 years)
O'Reilly (Like this kid a lot but he has a lot of competition for the position he plays)
Dea (I see him in the position as O'Reilly, hopefully he can get over his injuries so he can push for selection)
Post

Well done MT, that's a pretty good list and really shows up our lack of depth at the moment. I still hold out hopes for Posty, but really does need to start delivering. I suspect Griff will go past him though. Certainly hope Dea does get over his injuries soon.

I think we could add Titch to that list as I think he'll be superseeded by either Helbig if he can get some weight on, or another big bodied trade.

 

[CoggaRules]

first 10 weeks? The club would be tickled pink at where the team sits..dampened only by the couple of chances that the team had, which were not taken, to be in a position that they wouldnt have dreamt of being at the start of the season. I say that, because if you have a real good look at what has unfolded since the start of the season, alot of obstacles have cropped up, re. players going missing, players suffering personal issues, long term injuries, suspensions(we didnt have a BL at one stage) etc etc etc. So taking all that into account, the whole group shoud be commended for carving out a pretty ****ing good start, all things considered.

 

[Azzleberry]

no as many as 23 could go in the next 3 yrs are you thick how many times does it need saying.
as someone else said on this thread in that time we are assured of turning over at least 13. as i have no inclination to play silly games with people i was suggesting we stick to what we know for fact 13 will DEFINATELY BE GONE AS A MINIMUM.All else will only derail any sort of debate as i have already stated. if people really want to know who i think will should go they only need to loo at my posts on this board and they will have a damn good idea. ive been pretty constant.

so who are the most likely 13 to go in the next 3 yrs. again most are pretty easy.you blokes dont need me to hold your hands you jst need to be honest.

where are you MT you too can put your balls on the line after all its just 13 and apparently those 13 are really really obvious.

MT managed to put his balls on the line and name up 13 players like you asked him to. How about you name the 23 which could be gone in the next 3 years?? You have deflected for the whole thread and still haven't named 23. The closest you have come is naming 14. Still 9 short mate...


And are we assuming that the 23 will be gone by the start of 2014 (3 trade periods)?

 

[Reckoner Tiger]

The problem with turning over 23 players, particularly those that are young, is that likely the players we use to replace them are not high draft picks and quality players.

Thus we have a high turnover, clear our struggling players, but bring in subpar talent, making the exercise pointless. Has nobody considered this?

 

[CoggaRules]

The problem with turning over 23 players, particularly those that are young, is that likely the players we use to replace them are not high draft picks and quality players.

Thus we have a high turnover, clear our struggling players, but bring in subpar talent, making the exercise pointless. Has nobody considered this?

This type of thought process has had us in shitsville for the last 2 and abit decades.
This is why struggling players who would not have made it to game 20 let alone 50 made it to game 100+ with the tigers in the past. Bringing in talent is just that bringing in talent. If that talent then is deemed sub par, then that sub par talent becomes the struggling players you clear out for the next batch of talent, that you test to see if its sub par. What you dont do is suck on your thumb and hope the moon turns blue and the cow jumps over it, and low and behold a stugglers, all of a sudden dont, even though they were sub par talent.
We are not experts here. All we can do is debate and argue about shit. What I cant handle is when a struggling player is deemed to be required, purely because there isnt anything better.
We were giving games to players who wouldnt even make the 2s elsewhere and we couldnt trade because no one wanted them. And here we were applauding their 100th games, for what? They should have been applauding us and the club for giving them an AFL career on their cvs.
How do you find anything better when you are not trying to find anything better, by keeping a struggler.
No one had the balls to bite the bullet and be totally and uttersly shit, because we had coaches who wanted to lick media arses with the "look how good i am" shit. Our problem was eacerbated when those coaches were that shitful we were shitful anyway.
FFS. you pick up a player give him a pre season or 2, see what he brings and how he handles it and either retain him because he can kick a ball, has a bit of vision, break a tackle etc etc.,or DELIST.
Here we were giving games to players who couldnt do shit and why? because there was no one better, year in year out they were there.