First 22, Second 21

[fleabitten]

Was thinking about our depth and which positions we're most vulnerable and decided to compare our best 22 with what's left on the list (and rookie list) to see how we're faring at each position.

Taking into consideration that many of the players can be played in several positions, which area of the ground do you think we have well covered and where are we exposed? Which area of the ground can we least afford to lose a player to injury?

First 22
B Morris Griffiths Grimes
HB Newman Rance Batchelor
C Deledio Cotchin Grigg
HF Martin Riewoldt Nahas
F Edwards Vickery King
R I.Maric Tuck Foley

INT Houli Conca Ellis Dea

Second 22
B Helbig McGuane Post
HB Darrou Astbury Moore
C White Jackson Webberley
HF O'Hanlon Elton A.Maric
F Connors Miller Turner
R Graham Arnot Verrier

INT Browne Derickx Wright

IMO We're not looking bad with our key defenders providing they can stay healthy. We can also opt to go with just the two talls and have even better depth (Rance and Grimes with Griffiths, Astbury, Post, Moore and McGuane in reserve plus Wright on the rookie list).

Midfield depth doesn't look flash when looking at the 2nd team but the first team is quality and there are mids named in the forward line plus the entire bench. If we got a lot of injuries in the midfield, we'd also have the option of bringing in the reserve small forwards as replacements. Graham has been going okay at Coburg but it'd obviously hurt to lose Maric. Hopefully he's managing to teach Graham a few things.

 

[Bazzar]

Jackson is 100% in our best 22, if you dont believe me just ask Dimma.

People here hate him, but his big body and hardness is invaluable as is his goals and assists. And if he isnt, then why was he rushed back in for the Swans game? Probably because his previous two games against the Eagles and Cats were fantastic. (and no i dont mean how many disposals or SC votes he got)

 

[fleabitten]

Fair enough. Put him in your team. I debated about who to miss out but it doesn't really matter. Just looking at the depth we have, whether Jackson or Edwards or Ellis or whoever it is that is left out of the team. I just brought in Grimes and Batchelor and two had to make room. I went with A.Maric and Jackson but could be convinced otherwise.

 

[Bazzar]

Fair enough. Put him in your team. I debated about who to miss out but it doesn't really matter. Just looking at the depth we have, whether Jackson or Edwards or Ellis or whoever it is that is left out of the team. I just brought in Grimes and Batchelor and two had to make room. I went with A.Maric and Jackson but could be convinced otherwise.

Good call. Your teams were spot on. What i like about this year is even our spuds (Nahas, Jackson, King, Edwards ect) are playing great team footy and making valuable weekly contributions. This would have to be the first time in recent memory that weekly match committee would struggle for change.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Depth is one of the big questions about our list. I honestly don't think it's as bad as what people make out. The majority of the second 22 are either project players or an unknown quantity due to their youth. The ones who are not are handy to keep in the mean time because thier sole purpose would be a depth player.

The simple fact is that even the best teams only have 24-25 AFL standard players. The reason is that it's impractical to have more then that. Not just because of Salary cap reasons, but because they won't be around long if they don't get the opportunity play in the main side.

Most players would rather play regular games in a poor team than play little or no games in a good team. Even if they have a lot of talent you won't be getting much in trade value if they leave. Thats how Houli, Grigg and Maric fell into our laps. Just goes to show that the recruiting department are worth their weight in gold to identify these type of players.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Replacing one of our front line midfielders, should they become injured , is still a major concern .

 

[Madtiger2006]

I think Dea will be first to make way when Grimes comes back. While A Maric will probably make way for Batchelor. At some point I'd like to see a 3rd tall forward other than Miller come in too. Post has plenty to offer imo. Ruck, midfielder and midsize/small forward will probably be our picks in the next draft

 

[tiggywigs]

I think Dea will be first to make way when Grimes comes back. While A Maric will probably make way for Batchelor. At some point I'd like to see a 3rd tall forward other than Miller come in too. Post has plenty to offer imo. Ruck, midfielder and midsize/small forward will probably be our picks in the next draft

I've got a feeling that Dea will be groomed as a Dons-style midfielder as soon as the training wheels are off. Think Howlett, Hocking etc.

 

[SumTingWong]

I think Dea will be first to make way when Grimes comes back. While A Maric will probably make way for Batchelor. At some point I'd like to see a 3rd tall forward other than Miller come in too. Post has plenty to offer imo. Ruck, midfielder and midsize/small forward will probably be our picks in the next draft

O'Hanlon is starting to look very good at Coburg Magnificant left peg

 

[SleepingGiant]

Tuck is an absolute hack who has played barely any good games this year, if any at all. He consistantly breaks down chains of play by trying to bauk his opponent then he gets put under pressure and either a) stuffs it up or b) handballs it to a teammate under pressure and while that looks good on his stats he has turned it over.

All he does is bomb the ****ing ball as far as he can into the forward line, along with Tuck. The sooner we find skilled big body replacements (as we don't have them yet) the better off we will be. They are some of our weakest links and need to be replaced.

 

[telsor]

O'Hanlon is starting to look very good at Coburg Magnificant left peg

O'Hanlon isn't a small forward.

Mid sized, perhaps, although I'd argue that position is being taken by the rotation of Martin/Cotch/Lids to 'rest' up forward.


One of the main reasons he sank as far he did in the draft is that as a junior, he played as a key position forward, but at 189cm is way too short for that at AFL (or even VFL) level, which leaves him without a position.

That said, he is talented, and the club is trying to retrain him as a flanker (and thus, primarily part of the midfield rotations), and while he's shown good signs at Coburg so far, he still has a fair way to go.

The good news is that, if he makes it, we'll have a big bodied midfielder who has good contested marking skills and can kick goals from 50-60 out.

 

[johnno77]

O'Hanlon isn't a small forward.

Mid sized, perhaps, although I'd argue that position is being taken by the rotation of Martin/Cotch/Lids to 'rest' up forward.


One of the main reasons he sank as far he did in the draft is that as a junior, he played as a key position forward, but at 189cm is way too short for that at AFL (or even VFL) level, which leaves him without a position.

That said, he is talented, and the club is trying to retrain him as a flanker (and thus, primarily part of the midfield rotations), and while he's shown good signs at Coburg so far, he still has a fair way to go.

The good news is that, if he makes it, we'll have a big bodied midfielder who has good contested marking skills and can kick goals from 50-60 out.

I didn't know that. Could he possibly be a Jason Porplyzia type for us? Or dare I say a Matty Rogers?!

 

[Bazzar]

Tuck is an absolute hack who has played barely any good games this year, if any at all.

You were obviously asleep through the Melbourne (prob 3 brownlow votes) Port and the Swans games.

 

[SumTingWong]

O'Hanlon isn't a small forward.
Mid sized, perhaps, although I'd argue that position is being taken by the rotation of Martin/Cotch/Lids to 'rest' up forward.


One of the main reasons he sank as far he did in the draft is that as a junior, he played as a key position forward, but at 189cm is way too short for that at AFL (or even VFL) level, which leaves him without a position.

That said, he is talented, and the club is trying to retrain him as a flanker (and thus, primarily part of the midfield rotations), and while he's shown good signs at Coburg so far, he still has a fair way to go.

The good news is that, if he makes it, we'll have a big bodied midfielder who has good contested marking skills and can kick goals from 50-60 out.

I didn't say he was a small forward(shakes his head)
the original post called for a mid sized/small forward which is the category I put him in

 

[Madtiger2006]

Tuck is an absolute hack who has played barely any good games this year, if any at all. He consistantly breaks down chains of play by trying to bauk his opponent then he gets put under pressure and either a) stuffs it up or b) handballs it to a teammate under pressure and while that looks good on his stats he has turned it over.

All he does is bomb the ****ing ball as far as he can into the forward line, along with Tuck. The sooner we find skilled big body replacements (as we don't have them yet) the better off we will be. They are some of our weakest links and need to be replaced.

Been happy with Tuck. Hasn't really turned it over this season. Grigg has improved his kicking alot. Jacko has been mainly good apart from a couple of sprayed kicks.

 

[Goldust]

Jackson is 100% in our best 22, if you dont believe me just ask Dimma.

People here hate him, but his big body and hardness is invaluable as is his goals and assists. And if he isnt, then why was he rushed back in for the Swans game? Probably because his previous two games against the Eagles and Cats were fantastic. (and no i dont mean how many disposals or SC votes he got)

I have no doubt Dimma rates Jackson in our best 22, that's not for debate.
But should he be, top 22, in my opinion and many other's No.
I will cut him some slack, Jackson played a very good game Saturday shutting down Isaac Smith, who has been one of the Hawks' best this year. Big job.
His game against WC was poor.
I seriously don't buy this "big boddy" thing. We performed outstandingly without his "big body" v Port Aedlaide and we've won before without him.
For me, the reason he missed the Port game was a key. Typical Jackson, suspension!!!
He plays the odd good game and role like on Saturday, but a must have player he is not!!!

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

I have no doubt Dimma rates Jackson in our best 22, that's not for debate.
But should he be, top 22, in my opinion and many other's No.
I will cut him some slack, Jackson played a very good game Saturday shutting down Isaac Smith, who has been one of the Hawks' best this year. Big job.
His game against WC was poor.
I seriously don't buy this "big boddy" thing. We performed outstandingly without his "big body" v Port Aedlaide and we've won before without him.
For me, the reason he missed the Port game was a key. Typical Jackson, suspension!!!
He plays the odd good game and role like on Saturday, but a must have player he is not!!!

I have never been a Jackson fan , especially as the so called big bodied midfielder which I agree is an has always been a cop out . However his seasons to date IMO has been his best and is very much earning his spot .

 

[Bazzar]

I have no doubt Dimma rates Jackson in our best 22, that's not for debate.
But should he be, top 22, in my opinion and many other's No.
I will cut him some slack, Jackson played a very good game Saturday shutting down Isaac Smith, who has been one of the Hawks' best this year. Big job.
His game against WC was poor.
I seriously don't buy this "big boddy" thing. We performed outstandingly without his "big body" v Port Aedlaide and we've won before without him.
For me, the reason he missed the Port game was a key. Typical Jackson, suspension!!!
He plays the odd good game and role like on Saturday, but a must have player he is not!!!

So your saying yours and others opinion is more important than Hardwicks?

And on his WC game, define poor? I was at the game and it was good. You dont rate the big body thing, well just ask Cotch and the others at stoppages. Its a team game and thats his role and apart from his inside work and hardness this year he has made more opportunities up forward. Compared to last year, this year two 2`s and three 1`s compared to qne 2 and five 1`s for the entire last season.

So far he is 8th on the goal kicking with 7, then Lids 8, Grigg 9 and Nahas, Martin and Cotch 10 each

His second WC goal was pure brute strength rugby try style, a ripper. Just like Edwards, he has lifted this year and is a lock for every game.

 

[SumTingWong]

I have no doubt Dimma rates Jackson in our best 22, that's not for debate.
But should he be, top 22, in my opinion and many other's No.
I will cut him some slack, Jackson played a very good game Saturday shutting down Isaac Smith, who has been one of the Hawks' best this year. Big job.
His game against WC was poor.I seriously don't buy this "big boddy" thing. We performed outstandingly without his "big body" v Port Aedlaide and we've won before without him.
For me, the reason he missed the Port game was a key. Typical Jackson, suspension!!!
He plays the odd good game and role like on Saturday, but a must have player he is not!!!

Nullified Hurn, who is a major attacking weapon for West Coast.
CLUELESS!!!!!

 

[Goldust]

So your saying yours and others opinion is more important than Hardwicks?

And on his WC game, define poor? I was at the game and it was good. You dont rate the big body thing, well just ask Cotch and the others at stoppages. Its a team game and thats his role and apart from his inside work and hardness this year he has made more opportunities up forward. Compared to last year, this year two 2`s and three 1`s compared to qne 2 and five 1`s for the entire last season.

So far he is 8th on the goal kicking with 7, then Lids 8, Grigg 9 and Nahas, Martin and Cotch 10 each

His second WC goal was pure brute strength rugby try style, a ripper. Just like Edwards, he has lifted this year and is a lock for every game.

What I'm saying , is YES, we're all entitled to an opinion ... even you .. and you have one. Your opinion is Jackson is definite top 22, fine. My opinion is he isn't and I don't think he brings much to the table.
And as I said, hardwick's is the opinion that counts most and that's why he plays. I am entitled to that opinion. Jackson in my eyes is a poor footballer ... slow, undisciplined, costs us often by giviong away frees and with poor disposal but can do a job at times as he did against Isaac Smith. The fact the consensuse seems to be we'll keep him until something better coes along seems to speak volumes as to how the fans rate him. But Hardwick would not be the first coach to play favourites. Geez, I played footy long enough - not AFL - to know that even at country and suburban level there are always players a coach favours over others and it baffles many within the team.
IMO Tuck does more at stoppages and in body work than Jackson .. and LMAO ... jacko's last quarter goal Saturday was typical of his disposal...it was never intended to go anywhere near the goals and was actually passing to soemone at the back of the sqaure. Of course it missed its mark by a good 10 metres!!!

As for Edwads .. never doubted he was top 22 .... and finally being played in the position he should have been all along!!

 

[Goldust]

Nullified Hurn, who is a major attacking weapon for West Coast.
CLUELESS!!!!!

Turned it over an awful lot .... and restricts us going forward with slow, methodical and poor ball use!

 

[Madison]

Tuck is an absolute hack who has played barely any good games this year, if any at all. He consistantly breaks down chains of play by trying to bauk his opponent then he gets put under pressure and either a) stuffs it up or b) handballs it to a teammate under pressure and while that looks good on his stats he has turned it over.

All he does is bomb the ****ing ball as far as he can into the forward line, along with Tuck. The sooner we find skilled big body replacements (as we don't have them yet) the better off we will be. They are some of our weakest links and need to be replaced.

Absolutely clueless. 35 touches, 10 clearances and 10 tackles on the weekend. Cotch turned it over in the defensive 50 twice against Essendon for two shots on goal. Midfielders make mistakes. You have to balance the ledger and Tuck comes out way ahead.

 

[LC_15]

Probably should look at resting a couple of players for games against GC/GWS but due to timing of GWS game it might not be worth temping fate.

There are a couple of players we could swap in/out to give them a run.

 

[Madison]

And as for Jackson, he is playing a role at the moment, but when our younger players get more experience, they will overtake him. He is playing within his limitations at the moment but he is still shanking kicks and making some poor decisions. For now he is in the 22, but someone has to make way for Grimes, Batch and possibly Astbury from the team that played on Saturday. A Maric defs comes out, then maybe Jackson/King. I would hate to see us drop Ellis or Dea, I feel they are doing enough on current form to hold their spot and given that they have far more upside they should stay in (form permitting).

 

[Bazzar]

Absolutely clueless. 35 touches, 10 clearances and 10 tackles on the weekend. Cotch turned it over in the defensive 50 twice against Essendon for two shots on goal. Midfielders make mistakes. You have to balance the ledger and Tuck comes out way ahead.

Heard Malthouse say a few weeks back he expected Swan, Penalbyry etc to make mistakes and some turnovers as thats part of playing hard inside, whereas he was very critical of backs and forwards with time and space making them.