First 22: Second 22:

[ant555]

I just like Ryder down back, dont get me wrong he has been amazing in the ruck, but he just adds so much down back, but then again, you are right he can be used in a variety of roles, so an extra backmen would not be that bad an idea.

After seeing how much better Ryder plays in the ruck i do not know how you can want him as a defender. He does not like playing defence. He has no defensive instinct at all and has only got by in defence on athletic ability.

Leave him playing in the ruck let let him devleop into one of the most dangerous players in the leauge.
Otherwise he gets left in defence and probaly want's to return home at some stage becasue he is not enjoying his footy.

 

[Smyth94]

After seeing how much better Ryder plays in the ruck i do not know how you can want him as a defender. He does not like playing defence. He has no defensive instinct at all and has only got by in defence on athletic ability.

Leave him playing in the ruck let let him devleop into one of the most dangerous players in the leauge.
Otherwise he gets left in defence and probaly want's to return home at some stage becasue he is not enjoying his footy.

IMO Ryder should be first ruck next season (at least until Hille regains his match-fitness), this way Hilley can play deep forward and give us some badly needed marking power.

They can swap Paddy with Hille at FF for the chop-out.

 

[eth-dog]

yes way

Skippy will play ahead of Dyson

 

[Yoda_]

After seeing how much better Ryder plays in the ruck i do not know how you can want him as a defender. He does not like playing defence. He has no defensive instinct at all and has only got by in defence on athletic ability.

Leave him playing in the ruck let let him devleop into one of the most dangerous players in the leauge.
Otherwise he gets left in defence and probaly want's to return home at some stage becasue he is not enjoying his footy.

So you would put Ryder ahead of a fully fit and firing David Hille, the one who was close to All Australian selection last year. Yes Paddy is playing awesome as a ruckmen, but would we know this had we not lost Hille, had we not lost Laycock, probably not, we might be as potent as the Kangaroos if those three were all playing together.

But yes... hindsight is a wonderful thing... isnt it?

 

[AndyLesPaul]

So you would put Ryder ahead of a fully fit and firing David Hille, the one who was close to All Australian selection last year. Yes Paddy is playing awesome as a ruckmen, but would we know this had we not lost Hille, had we not lost Laycock, probably not, we might be as potent as the Kangaroos if those three were all playing together.

But yes... hindsight is a wonderful thing... isnt it?

Ryder started off as a ruckman, the only reason he was in defence was because we were low on Defenders? (I think?)

He was always going to end up in the ruck.

To be honest, he is a very exciting ruckman. He is a ruck/mid. It's great.
He is not a defender.

 

[AndyLesPaul]

Skippy will play ahead of Dyson

Dyson > Skipworth.

 

[BrunoV]

So you would put Ryder ahead of a fully fit and firing David Hille, the one who was close to All Australian selection last year. Yes Paddy is playing awesome as a ruckmen, but would we know this had we not lost Hille, had we not lost Laycock, probably not, we might be as potent as the Kangaroos if those three were all playing together.

But yes... hindsight is a wonderful thing... isnt it?

I am not sure that any of that is relevant at all.

 

[BrunoV]

Dyson and Skipworth are not competing for a spot in the side.

Skipworth is competing with Welsh and Monfries as a forward, and Hocking and Lonergan as a lockdown type in an under midfielder.

Dyson vs Skipworth is not an issue.

 

[Yoda_]

I am not sure that any of that is relevant at all.

Care to elaborate. Why is none of that irrelevant?

 

[BrunoV]

We wouldn't know that Paddy is a great ruckman if Hille and Laycock weren't injured?

So what, we know that he is a gun ruckman and Hille won't be fully fit because he is coming off a knee reco so Hille is probably going to find himself in a forward pocket untill he gets that fitness up.

 

[Yoda_]

For the record.

Skipworth is competing with Watson, Welsh, as in and under type players in the senior team, but when fully fit, Skipworth is a back up, although he can also be a half forward.

Dyson is on the bech as he has showed, in previous seasons before his break out half season (this year) that he can be a very good run and carry player, and thus got him the nod over players such as Zaka, Lonergan, Hocking, because he is the next best outside player, and someone who can add value to our team.

 

[Yoda_]

We wouldn't know that Paddy is a great ruckman if Hille and Laycock weren't injured?

So what, we know that he is a gun ruckman and Hille won't be fully fit because he is coming off a knee reco so Hille is probably going to find himself in a forward pocket untill he gets that fitness up.

Was thinking during the week, what would I side look like if we were not hampered by injuries? who would be in? who would be out? and what could a second 22 of just EFC listed players look like? well I have attempted to have a go, and have included some explanations.

this is what i said at the start of the thread if you had cared to actually read this.

if we were NOT hampered by injuries.. which means Hille would still be rucking. lol to your impetines at the finer details of life

 

[Ben the Gooner]

So you would put Ryder ahead of a fully fit and firing David Hille, the one who was close to All Australian selection last year. Yes Paddy is playing awesome as a ruckmen, but would we know this had we not lost Hille, had we not lost Laycock, probably not, we might be as potent as the Kangaroos if those three were all playing together.

But yes... hindsight is a wonderful thing... isnt it?

If Dean Wallis had kicked, we'd have 17.

He didn't, we don't.

 

[BrunoV]

So this thread is really an assessment of the list the last time it was fully fit.

What you will find is that the best side changes based on recent performance which I know sounds very strange but it really does.

So the whole thread is an utterly pointless exercise and I am sorry I wasted my time.

 

[ant555]

So you would put Ryder ahead of a fully fit and firing David Hille, the one who was close to All Australian selection last year. Yes Paddy is playing awesome as a ruckmen, but would we know this had we not lost Hille, had we not lost Laycock, probably not, we might be as potent as the Kangaroos if those three were all playing together.

But yes... hindsight is a wonderful thing... isnt it?

Whats with the hindsight shit ??
If you want to have a look go back and see how long i have siad Ryder should have been playing forward / ruck !!!

Of course we would have known how good Ryder was in the ruck. The kid came through the under 18's as a ruckman and was selected in front of Luenberger as the number 1 ruckman for WA in the year they both played champs together. He was in the AA under 18 side as a ruckman.
He was always drafted as a ruckman.

Just for you this was in the 2006 season preview.

A tall ruckman/forward who is a strong chance to debut in 2006 having already played senior football in the WAFL. Was named an All-Australian under 18 in 2005 and represented the AIS/AFL Academy in Ireland. Has a big leap and is excellent at the stopages.

It is not about hindsight. It is all about knowing the kids back ground and having seen where he has played his best footy.

You know what doing some research on the subject is a good thing as well

 

[Brent Prismall#9]

FB. H.Slattery - M.Hurley - D.Fletcher
HB. C.Dempsey - T.Pears - A.McPhee
C. J. Winderlich - J.Watson - A.Lovett
HF. A. Monfries - S. Gumbleton - M. McVeigh
FF. M.Lloyd - J. Neagle - A. Davey
FOL. D. Hille - B. Prismall - B. Stanton
INT. P. Ryder - K. Reimers - A. Welsh - B. Houli - D. Zaharakis - S. Lonergan - S. Lucas - H. Skipworth - D. Myers - H. Hocking

I love the look of this team and i strongly believe this is our best 22 and if we could field this team fully fit i honestly reckon we could challenge just about any team in the afl except geelong and st. kilda. Dont forget there are many players i have left out like dyson, hooker, daniher, jetta, lovett-murray and nash.

 

[dirtywhitepacker]

First 22:

B: Bachar Houli Dustin Fletcher Mark McVeigh
HB: Courtenay Dempsey Tayte Pears Adam McPhee
C: Kyle Reimers Jobe Watson Andrew Lovett
HF: Nathan Lovett-Murray Paddy Ryder Jason Winderlich
F: Scott Lucas Matthew Lloyd Alwyn Davey
R: David Hille Andrew Welsh Brent Stanton
I: Jason Laycock Heath Hocking Ricky Dyson Brent Prismall

Second 22:

B: Henry Slattery Michael Hurley Kade Klemke
HB: Tyson Slattery Cale Hooker Darcy Daniher
C: David Zaharakis Hayden Skipworth Jay Nash
HF: Angus Monfries Scott Gumbleton Michael Still
F: Rhys Magin Jay Neagle Leroy Jetta
R: Tom Bellchambers Sam Lonergan David Myers
I: Christian Bock Tom German Michael Quinn John Williams

Bryce Carroll, Jarrod Atkinson

Would have Ryder/Laycock/Hille alternating between Ruck and Forward.

Welsh adds so much versatility to our side, being able to fill gaps foward, back and in the middle.

Depending on the match up, Houli could go out for Daniher if we were contending with a taller forward line.

I left Atkinson out of each side because I see the 2nd 22 as a development side and I'd rather have Tom German having a crack rather than a player I don't see on our list next year.

McVeigh can play the third man up, and play on the smaller forwards also, just with a cooler head coming out of defence.

 

[Yoda_]

Whats with the hindsight shit ??
If you want to have a look go back and see how long i have siad Ryder should have been playing forward / ruck !!!

Of course we would have known how good Ryder was in the ruck. The kid came through the under 18's as a ruckman and was selected in front of Luenberger as the number 1 ruckman for WA in the year they both played champs together. He was in the AA under 18 side as a ruckman.
He was always drafted as a ruckman.

Just for you this was in the 2006 season preview.


It is not about hindsight. It is all about knowing the kids back ground and having seen where he has played his best footy.

You know what doing some research on the subject is a good thing as well

Nuh fair point Ant555, point being though, would we have seen his rapid improvement in the ruck this year, had Hille and Laycock both not been injured or not. That is the real question i am trying to ask. not just you, but everyone on the EFC board.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Nuh fair point Ant555, point being though, would we have seen his rapid improvement in the ruck this year, had Hille and Laycock both not been injured or not. That is the real question i am trying to ask. not just you, but everyone on the EFC board.

Why does it matter?

The fact is, we have seen his development.

 

[eth-dog]

Why does it matter?

The fact is, we have seen his development.

Hey BtG, can you help me find that poll I posted about Ryder being developed as a ruck? I can't find it anywhere

 

[Slattery_20]

Hear me out before totally discounting the idea but I think Ryder will end up on a wing Richo style.

He is not am impact player and would be totally wasted as a second ruckman. He has shown that he works best when he gets a continued run and there is no worse position for this than 2nd ruck.

There may be a way that the ruck duties can be split into forward and defence that would allow us to really kill opposition ruckmen.

Hopefully Laycock gets his body right because he can be selected as a forward/2nd ruckman which means that we are on the verge of total football with so many options in different positions.

Hooker has become one of our most important players because he is the one who has freed Ryder. He can play on talls (obviously) but he also seems agile and quick enough to play on smaller players if required. Automatic selection regardless of the odd belting that he will receive because he is a 19 year old defender.

I am not sure that there are 22 players on the list at Essendon that will contribute more to a victory at this stage (I am trying to distinguish the future and potential here) than Lovett-Murray.

I have said this before but the emergence of Winderlich, the consolidation of Watson as a gun, the development of Hocking and Lonergan and the drafting of Prismall means that McVeigh is not reqired in the middle as he once was. His demolition of Porp...(the ethnic one) proves that he can lock down with the best of them and is a calm head and beautiful user of the ball which makes his important to the back line. This also enables us to drop he who shall not be named for good.

Leading on from the last point either of Hocking or Lonergan are automatic selections. I would initially have gone with Sam but Heath has been showing more lately. There may not be a place in teh side for both of them if Welsh comes back into form because along with Skipworth there would be at least one too many of the same player (size and pace with roughly the same role)

With all of our midfield movers up and running there is deffinately a spot for Skipworth. He has copped a bit so far this year but, other than the Geelong game, he has been a very good presence on the ground.

The rest pretty much speaks for itself. I just wanted to put forward the more controversial points.

Agree with that. Love a guy called Bruno calling people ethnic!

Hocking & NLM have added to the side this year.

*team deleted*

Arguably could swap Davey out. Has been a disappointment.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Hey BtG, can you help me find that poll I posted about Ryder being developed as a ruck? I can't find it anywhere

I don't actually remember that one. Search for posts rather than threads maybe.

 

[eth-dog]

I don't actually remember that one. Search for posts rather than threads maybe.

Nah, I remember it, the one where I was bossing Merv around. it was a good one, got a couple of pages

 

[Amazing Bombers]

Nah, I remember it, the one where I was bossing Merv around. it was a good one, got a couple of pages

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=522568
Here you go.

 

[eth-dog]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=522568
Here you go.

thank you very much.