First club to 17 premierships?

Who will be the first club to 17 premierships?


  • Total voters
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Falcon3518

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 13, 2022
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Richmond
Why is it extreme? The list you’re talking about drew a grand final and would have won it but for the bounce of a ball. They also beat Geelong both seasons and were within a kick of doing it on grand final day. So it’s not a hypothetical that will never happen, it’s a hypothetical that did happen and almost happened twice more.

The example you gave doesn’t even apply to the saints. They have 2 HOFers, you were saying 0 HOFers. Again why take it to the extreme for? It’s like me saying if north 2022 beat Geelong 07-11 will they be considered one of the best sides ever? Hypothetically yes, but what’s the chances 0%. It’s meaningless.

Facts are saints couldn’t get it done cause they weren’t good enough. If they couldn’t beat the pies they’d have no hope against dynasty teams especially those with systems and more HOFers. We have 4 locks and 3 maybies. Some of which are better than their top players.


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PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
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Geelong
The example you gave doesn’t even apply to the saints. They have 2 HOFers, you were saying 0 HOFers. Again why take it to the extreme for? It’s like me saying if north 2022 beat Geelong 07-11 will they be considered one of the best sides ever? Hypothetically yes, but what’s the chances 0%. It’s meaningless.

Facts are saints couldn’t get it done cause they weren’t good enough. If they couldn’t beat the pies they’d have no hope against dynasty teams especially those with systems and more HOFers. We have 4 locks and 3 maybies. Some of which are better than their top players.


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You ragged on the backline like a clown and wondered how anyone could consider a team with 0 hall of fame players in their backline as being any good.


As usually you failed to put any thought into what you were saying. I pointed out that they boasted the stingiest defence of the century and rather than just saying ‘oh ok fair enough maybe they had a really good functional backline and were better than I thought’ you go off on some stupid tangent about halls of fame and whatnot.


Who cares how many hall of famers are in a side.
There’s like 2 in the current Penrith side there are half a dozen in teams like Melbourne and the Roosters over the last 5 years.
Hasn’t really stopped Penrith from being a juggernaut.
 

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Falcon3518

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 13, 2022
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You ragged on the backline like a clown and wondered how anyone could consider a team with 0 hall of fame players in their backline as being any good.


As usually you failed to put any thought into what you were saying. I pointed out that they boasted the stingiest defence of the century and rather than just saying ‘oh ok fair enough maybe they had a really good functional backline and were better than I thought’ you go off on some stupid tangent about halls of fame and whatnot.


Who cares how many hall of famers are in a side.
There’s like 2 in the current Penrith side there are half a dozen in teams like Melbourne and the Roosters over the last 5 years.
Hasn’t really stopped Penrith from being a juggernaut.

You just can’t handle that they weren’t a super team. It’s ok I understand. Believe whatever you want to help you cope.


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Falcon3518

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 13, 2022
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Hawthorn is the most successful club in flags per year in the competition and the fact that they have won them all relatively recently makes them the most successful club in the lifetime of probably everyone posting here.

Yeah but I doubt they will make 17 first, they are too far behind especially since they are in a 7 year drought and just about to start rebuilding properly. The flags per year average is dropping a lot.


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La Dispute

La Dispute
Jul 14, 2005
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You ragged on the backline like a clown and wondered how anyone could consider a team with 0 hall of fame players in their backline as being any good.


As usually you failed to put any thought into what you were saying. I pointed out that they boasted the stingiest defence of the century and rather than just saying ‘oh ok fair enough maybe they had a really good functional backline and were better than I thought’ you go off on some stupid tangent about halls of fame and whatnot.


Who cares how many hall of famers are in a side.
There’s like 2 in the current Penrith side there are half a dozen in teams like Melbourne and the Roosters over the last 5 years.
Hasn’t really stopped Penrith from being a juggernaut.
Are you talking them up because that adds some cred to the Cats 09’ win?

The Saints might have been a reasonable team but they won a grand total of zero premierships with that squad.

They played extremely defensive, boring football so of course they could restrict scoring. They also had to cover having some undersized key position defenders - Dawson and Fisher - which meant a lot of flooding and purposeful congestion to significantly outnumber opponents.

They might have leaked very few goals but they had to create the conditions for low scoring to cover their deficiencies.

There is nothing memorable about that side otherwise.
 

PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
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You just can’t handle that they weren’t a super team. It’s ok I understand. Believe whatever you want to help you cope.


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Can’t handle what?

What’s to handle? It’s a bloke I’ve never met not rating a bunch of other blokes I’ve never met the same way. Cope? Again, with what?

God you write some bullshit.
 
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PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
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Geelong
Are you talking them up because that adds some cred to the Cats 09’ win?

The Saints might have been a reasonable team but they won a grand total of zero premierships with that squad.

They played extremely defensive, boring football so of course they could restrict scoring. They also had to cover having some undersized key position defenders - Dawson and Fisher - which meant a lot of flooding and purposeful congestion to significantly outnumber opponents.

They might have leaked very few goals but they had to create the conditions for low scoring to cover their deficiencies.

There is nothing memorable about that side otherwise.


Oh for f***s sake does EVERY thread have to be polluted with metaphorical floaters insistent upon saying ‘you’re just saying this because it makes your team/player look better.’

They won a grand total of 0 premierships because they DREW a grand final and lost another by a kick (it became 12 points after the siren).

What the f*** is it with half the AFL fandom being unable to work out that a team not winning a grand final does not mean they didn’t have the squad to win one.


Like seriously at the end of 2010 did everyone go ‘well Collingwood sure had the better of that draw because they have a grand final squad, St Kilda obviously don’t.’

I don’t need to mention s**t to add credibility to Geelong’s flag sides.
 

old55

Club Legend
Feb 12, 2011
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Yeah but I doubt they will make 17 first, they are too far behind especially since they are in a 7 year drought and just about to start rebuilding properly. The flags per year average is dropping a lot.


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We were probably saying similar 20 years ago. Now 4 more flags later.

13 in 61 years. If the next 20 follow the pattern they're a shot.

"Past performance is not indicative of future results"
 

La Dispute

La Dispute
Jul 14, 2005
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Oh for f***s sake does EVERY thread have to be polluted with metaphorical floaters insistent upon saying ‘you’re just saying this because it makes your team/player look better.’

They won a grand total of 0 premierships because they DREW a grand final and lost another by a kick (it became 12 points after the siren).

What the f*** is it with half the AFL fandom being unable to work out that a team not winning a grand final does not mean they didn’t have the squad to win one.


Like seriously at the end of 2010 did everyone go ‘well Collingwood sure had the better of that draw because they have a grand final squad, St Kilda obviously don’t.’

I don’t need to mention s**t to add credibility to Geelong’s flag sides.
There are likely 5-6 teams every season that has the potential to win one, but clearly most don’t, and that denotes them as another unremarkable team that had a chance and blew it.

No one brings up Collingwood not having the squad to win in 2010 because they did win in 2010.

You clearly overrate the Saints of 2009-2010 and that’s fine, but bringing up the defensive aspect of their game and trying to labour the point is fairly incredulous. If you build and set a specific squad and play in a manner that is designed to significantly limit the scoring of your opposition then of course your defensive stats are going to look good - but it accounted for SFA.
 
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PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
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There are likely 5-6 teams every season that has the potential to win one, but clearly most don’t, and that denotes them as another unremarkable team that had a chance and blew it.

No one brings up Collingwood not having the squad to win in 2010 because they did win in 2010.

You clearly overrate the Saints of 2009-2010 and that’s fine, but bringing up the defensive aspect of their game and trying to labour the point is fairly incredulous. If you build and set a specific squad and play in a manner that is designed to significantly limit the scoring of your opposition then of course your defensive stats are going to look good - but it accounted for SFA.


They averaged 100 points per game in 2009. They can’t have been that bad.

There is no way anyone can say ‘every premiership team was a better side than St Kilda in 2009-10 because St Kilda didn’t win a premiership’ with any accuracy.

They didn’t achieve what other teams did, however it doesn’t mean their quality was not better. In an imagined world where the Tour De France wasn’t littered with drug use and he hadn’t already won a TDF in 1997, you would be hard pressed to say that Jan Ullrich was an inferior rider to Cadel Evans just because he kept finishing second to Lance Armstrong
 

Falcon3518

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 13, 2022
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AFL Club
Richmond
They averaged 100 points per game in 2009. They can’t have been that bad.

There is no way anyone can say ‘every premiership team was a better side than St Kilda in 2009-10 because St Kilda didn’t win a premiership’ with any accuracy.

They didn’t achieve what other teams did, however it doesn’t mean their quality was not better. In an imagined world where the Tour De France wasn’t littered with drug use and he hadn’t already won a TDF in 1997, you would be hard pressed to say that Jan Ullrich was an inferior rider to Cadel Evans just because he kept finishing second to Lance Armstrong

Let’s cut to the chase, who do you think is better 17-20 Richmond or 09/10 saints?


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PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
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Let’s cut to the chase, who do you think is better 17-20 Richmond or 09/10 saints?


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If they played each other 10 times I think the the 09-10 saints would at least break even and probably win 6. And for what it’s worth I think they’d probably do similar to today’s Geelong team.

And no, that’s not using your fantasy model where a current team is transplanted to another era with all of todays advantages and the other team is at a disadvantage.
 

Falcon3518

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 13, 2022
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If they played each other 10 times I think the the 09-10 saints would at least break even and probably win 6. And for what it’s worth I think they’d probably do similar to today’s Geelong team.

And no, that’s not using your fantasy model where a current team is transplanted to another era with all of todays advantages and the other team is at a disadvantage.

You’re a fool and completely one eyed. This is why nobody can have a serious debate with you. Keep living in the past.


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PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
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Geelong
You’re a fool and completely one eyed. This is why nobody can have a serious debate with you. Keep living in the past.


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I’m one eyed for suggesting another club would beat mine


Grow up and learn to accept that people born with brains can have an opinion based on measured reasoned analysis and not out of bias.

Everything you post here is borne of bias or a desire to troll. Everything without fail.

Someone dares suggest that a team they don’t even follow was at a similar standard to both your team, and my team, and you have to prolapse like someone’s just told you Santa isn’t real.

Here’s a tip mate. Suggesting that a team who went 20-2, won 19 matches in a row to start the season, lost their only two matches by a total of 7 points, and who were 6 points down at the final siren of a grand final were Actually a good team, is done based on evidence, not bias
 
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Falcon3518

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 13, 2022
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Richmond
I’m one eyed for suggesting another club would beat mine


Grow up and learn to accept that people born with brains can have an opinion based on measured reasoned analysis and not out of bias.

Everything you post here is borne of bias or a desire to troll. Everything without fail.

Someone dares suggest that a team they don’t even follow was at a similar standard to both your team, and my team, and you have to prolapse like someone’s just told you Santa isn’t real.

Nope, you’re one of those supporters that would rip down the current group of players do hold up the past ones. It’s the worst kind of supporter. I see tigers supporters do that with Jack dyer, KB and Hart all the time. It’s really sad. Players and teams get better over time, if you accept that you’d enjoy footy more. Your current group of players are amazing dude, you should recognise them a bit more. It’s actually disrespectful.


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PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
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Geelong
Nope, you’re one of those supporters that would rip down the current group of players do hold up the past ones. It’s the worst kind of supporter. I see tigers supporters do that with Jack dyer, KB and Hart all the time. It’s really sad.


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Sorry I’m what?

I don’t have to do anything to hold up past ones.

Geelong went 103-17 and won 3 flags in that era. I don’t have to do jack s**t to hold them up. Their standard, numbers, and achievements all combine to do that.

You can piss your pants over it all you like, it won’t change anything and calling me bias for suggesting St Kilda had a very good side at one point 13 years ago won’t change anything either.
 

Falcon3518

Norm Smith Medallist
Mar 13, 2022
5,351
3,197
AFL Club
Richmond
Sorry I’m what?

I don’t have to do anything to hold up past ones.

Geelong went 103-17 and won 3 flags in that era. I don’t have to do jack s**t to hold them up. Their standard, numbers, and achievements all combine to do that.

You can piss your pants over it all you like, it won’t change anything and calling me bias for suggesting St Kilda had a very good side at one point 13 years ago won’t change anything either.

Your standards will never be met due to blind nostalgia so much so you’d sacrifice the achievements of your current teams flags in a debate to hold up the 07-11 team. You still gonna say 07-11 team is the best in 20, 30, 40 years time? Yeah I think you will unfortunately. I won’t with Richmond cause I’m realistic. Next dynasty team will be better no matter who’s it is, it’s the nature of sport.


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PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
37,372
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AFL Club
Geelong
Your standards will never be met due to blind nostalgia so much so you’d sacrifice the achievements of your current teams flags in a debate to hold up the 07-11 team. You still gonna say 07-11 team is the best in 20, 30, 40 years time? Yeah I think you will unfortunately. I won’t with Richmond cause I’m realistic. Next dynasty team will be better no matter who’s it is, it’s the nature of sport.


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What am I sacrificing?

Do we give up the 2022 trophy we just won because I think an unrelated team of men from another club from over a decade ago we’re just as good? I didn’t know this. Thanks for telling me.

It’s not the nature of sport. It’s the nature of your brain.
 

Fadge

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 4, 2007
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Your standards will never be met due to blind nostalgia so much so you’d sacrifice the achievements of your current teams flags in a debate to hold up the 07-11 team. You still gonna say 07-11 team is the best in 20, 30, 40 years time? Yeah I think you will unfortunately. I won’t with Richmond cause I’m realistic. Next dynasty team will be better no matter who’s it is, it’s the nature of sport.
I've been watching footy for over 40 years and that Geelong side during that period is the best I have ever seen, and they have the stats to back that up. So chances are we're unlikely to see a superior team to them in the next 20, 30 or 40 years.
 

Fadge

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 4, 2007
11,552
10,278
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Collingwood
What am I sacrificing?

Do we give up the 2022 trophy we just won because I think an unrelated team of men from another club from over a decade ago we’re just as good? I didn’t know this. Thanks for telling me.

It’s not the nature of sport. It’s the nature of your brain.
It's the same old problem with this fellow. He just can't get his head around how to rate teams relatively from different eras.

But I guess it's all good for you - Geelong 2022 are clearly the best side in the history of the game. It's undisputed.