First issue for discussion?

[Salaryman]

To describe my position in brief: On this issue i agree with ODN that a blanket statement saying we will not recruit anybody over the age 24 is too exclusive. I think there are a number of circumstances in which i would be happy to recruit somebody over that age.

1. If they fill an immediate and crucial role or need, and have proven themselves to have played this role in particular to a high AFL standard (under this provision for example, McLaren might not have qualified last year, as he was recruited t fill a rucking need).

2. That the recruitee is of a good character and is likely to provide a mentoring or support role for developing youngsters on the list (perhpas with the proviso that they don't actually take their position in the senior 22, an example might be a Mal Michael to play FB next to Bower in the BP, hypothetical of course)

I will post other exceptions as i think of them.

Pity we can't do this over msn, my dial-up is painfully slow (sorry, my sook sook is out of the way now)

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Not sure that the decision is ours to make BG, in terms of what we get for Thornton that is. We have to leave it to Pagan and Hughes.

However, the greater issue here is we do not want players holding a gun to our heads and coming off second best in a trade situation, particularly when that player's departure leaves us with a huge hole to fill in the side.

Bearing in mind what KPPs have gone for in previous drafts but the apparent strength of this draft, I would place Thornton's worth at a single mid/late first rounder or two earlyish second rounders, unless a player that fills a hole is available.

My feeling is that speculated offers of #24 and nothing else is putting us over a barrel and the club should consider sending a message that players can't nominate one club only for a trade if that club is not prepared to make a fair trade.

Personally I am prepared to send Thornton to the PSD if we do not get an offer that collectively adds up to at least a late first rounder.

 

[BlueBelle]

MSN would definately be ideal....... More of a "live" conversation

 

[HBF]

I'm here, i'm here, i'm here......phew.
Got the coffee and the skirt on....I mean tracksuit pants and i'm ready to go.

1. Bret Thornton. Has made it clear he doesn't want to play for Carlton next year, and that's fine - it's up to him. He's not going for cash, or so he says, and he just wants a fresh start. Hawthorn are his club of choice, and Hawthorn are pretty keen to get him.

Carlton and Pagan have said that they will not trade with Hawthorn and that Bret is a required player for 2007 and beyond and they have put a lot of development into him.

On first thoughts, I thought Carlton should take what they could get from Hawthorn, which I thought would be #24 and either a player or the pick they get from Sydney for the Spida deal.

However, Carlton saying they will not deal with Hawthorn means that the Hawks will have to come to the party to get Thornton, and may have to either put up their #6 pick, or a pretty good player, Jordan Lewis perhaps. What i'm saying is that they may have to pay over the odds for Thornton. This could work for Carlton, or it could backfire. I'm happy to wait until Friday to see how this pans out.

2. Jordan Russell. Speculation is that he wants to return to SA and Port are keen. I think if we could get #23 from Port then i'd be happy. Think Port would do that deal.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

We can do it over MSN while it is just us, and keep checking in for others.

I'll just cut and paste the conversation into a thread. If Jeremias comes we will keep it in the thread.

 

[HBF]

Everitt is one of these players. It is clear that we need a ruckman and although Everitt will probably only play for another 2 - 3 years, that will give a young ruckman on our list enough time to develop without the pressure of being smashed week in week out. In saying that, would love Luenberger but Gibbs would be my first choice in the draft.

I just don't think Everitt is the answer BG. If we are going to get a "stop-gap" ruckman for a couple of years, i'd much prefer to get Clark Keating.

I would also pull the trigger on 1, maybe 2 ruckman in this years draft, or take 1 ruckman this year and have a big look at Kruezer next year, who is rated almost as highly as Leuenberger.

 

[Salaryman]

Bluegal: Having followed the draft closely for a couple of years now, i can say with some confidence that #6 in this draft has the possibility of landing a #1 pick in other drafts, e.g. Leuenberger ~ Koschitzke

I don't think Thornton is worth what is practically a number 1,2 or 3 pick in normal drafts.

If Hawthorn came to me with #24 and another pick in the second round i would seriously consider it. I would agree to #24 and Clinton Young, but no other fringe player.

If St. Kilda gave them #27 for Everitt for example i would seriously consider #24 and #27, only IF it looked like one of Notting, Polak and McGregor was going to fall into the PSD.

If the rumours are true and we are taking #23 for Jordan Russell that could leave us potentially with #1, #17, #19, #23, #24 and #27, PSD#1

A lot better than #1, #17, #19, #35, #51, #67

especially in this draft, depth goes to pick #30, chances of a player making it higher than in 90% of drafts, but then drops off IMO

 

[BlueBelle]

I agree with HBF. The ball is in Hawthorn's court regarding Thornton. If they really want him then they must be prepared to offer us something we are willing to take. I am also happy to wait until Friday and if they don't come to the party then looks like Bret will nominate for the PSD which I'm not disappointed about.

I'm glad we are not acting as the doormat AFL club and it sends a strong message to the rest of the clubs that yes, whilst we might be struggling at present, we aren't going to be walked all over

 

[Salaryman]

ODN, perhaps we should be more specific and nominate a couple of issues which we need to come to a final decision on by the end of the discussion, otherwise i am not sure if we will be able to 'tighten' up the discussion with some conclusion by the end of the meeting?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Missing Jeremias, Hu$$ey and Murphster. We will keep this meeting open for a day allowing them to add their comments.

If HBF can do MSN, we can take it there and cut and paste. HBF? Do you have MSN or is it not an option?

 

[BlueBelle]

Bluegal: Having followed the draft closely for a couple of years now, i can say with some confidence that #6 in this draft has the possibility of landing a #1 pick in other drafts, e.g. Leuenberger ~ Koschitzke

I don't think Thornton is worth what is practically a number 1,2 or 3 pick in normal drafts.

If Hawthorn came to me with #24 and another pick in the second round i would seriously consider it. I would agree to #24 and Clinton Young, but no other fringe player.

If St. Kilda gave them #27 for Everitt for example i would seriously consider #24 and #27, only IF it looked like one of Notting, Polak and McGregor was going to fall into the PSD.

If the rumours are true and we are taking #23 for Jordan Russell that could leave us potentially with #1, #17, #19, #23, #24 and #27, PSD#1

A lot better than #1, #17, #19, #35, #51, #67

especially in this draft, depth goes to pick #30, chances of a player making it higher than in 90% of drafts, but then drops off IMO

I can see what you're saying Gilly but I am very happy that Carlton are not laying down easily. Do we even know what Hawthorn are prepared to give us? Is it 2 picks or just the one?

 

[Salaryman]

come on HBF, time to come to the party and install messenger live

BlueGal, my MSN is happyschilmore@hotmail.com

long story, don't ask about the name!!

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

ODN, perhaps we should be more specific and nominate a couple of issues which we need to come to a final decision on by the end of the discussion, otherwise i am not sure if we will be able to 'tighten' up the discussion with some conclusion by the end of the meeting?

Gilly, I think this has to be an open meeting until COB tomorrow so the others can have their say. We can progress right now and come to a conclusion as we have 4 of 7 members.

Expected outcomes for mine:

1. Are we prepared to back the football department in risking losing Thornton for nothing if we do not get a fair trade from Hawthorn?

2. A statement to redefine or back the current policy re players under 24 or capable of playing 100 games.

Obviously there are many other issues to discuss but these are the most topical this week.

We are already well on the way.

 

[BlueBelle]

Missing Jeremias, Hu$$ey and Murphster. We will keep this meeting open for a day allowing them to add their comments.

If HBF can do MSN, we can take it there and cut and paste. HBF? Do you have MSN or is it not an option?

HBF - if you don't have MSN, are u running Windows XP? Windows messenger is standard in XP I believe and that is exactly the same as MSN.

 

[Salaryman]

It is difficult for us to have a position on football department issues without being privvy to what is going on behind closed doors. I am just trying to state what i think are fair trades for us.

 

[HBF]

I must be the only person who doesn't have MSN messenger, but i'll have a look through XP. That will teach me for working at a company that pays for my mobile phone - damn them to high heaven.

If not, i'll open up a hotmail account and go from there. Give me a few minutes to get up and running.

 

[HBF]

1. Are we prepared to back the football department in risking losing Thornton for nothing if we do not get a fair trade from Hawthorn?.

I like the idea of Carlton playing hardball with the Hawks, saying that they will not deal with them, making Hawthorn come up with the best available trade. However, I don't like the idea of losing Thornton for nothing. That would be the worst possible outcome.

2. A statement to redefine or back the current policy re players under 24 or capable of playing 100 games.

I'm not sure we can be as rigid as that. What would happen if a Simon Black fell out with Brisbane and came our way through the PSD ala Stevens. Surely we wouldn't turn him away becuase he is over 24.

 

[BlueBelle]

I must be the only person who doesn't have MSN messenger, but i'll have a look through XP. That will teach me for working at a company that pays for my mobile phone - damn them to high heaven.

If not, i'll open up a hotmail account and go from there. Give me a few minutes to get up and running.

Good work HBF. Convo in full swing with ODN, Gilly and myself.

So far we have all agreed that:

We are prepared to back the football department in risking losing Thornton for nothing if we do not get a fair trade from Hawthorn?

 

[Jeremias]

Hi guys, I am here, sorry for the delay.

Can't do MSN, so continue in this thread please.

Fist up we are discussing players and list management?

 

[HBF]

Good work HBF. Convo in full swing with ODN, Gilly and myself.

So far we have all agreed that:

We are prepared to back the football department in risking losing Thornton for nothing if we do not get a fair trade from Hawthorn?

Installing now guys. Should be up and running soon.

 

[HBF]

Hi guys, I am here, sorry for the delay.

Can't do MSN, so continue in this thread please.

Fist up we are discussing players and list management?

Why not mate, dial up or something..?

 

[Jeremias]

Why not mate, dial up or something..?

Schoolwork at the same time, and will have to avoid the prying eyes of parents seeing if I am working Gotta find a alance between this and work.

Much easier on the forum for me. It does't look like any of you have a major ojection to having it in here, so why not?
Would be MUCH easier for me...

 

[BlueBelle]

OK Jeremias, how about sharing your view with us?

 

[BlueBelle]

Hey HBF, hows the installation going? Have you set up a hotmail account?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Glenn says:
1. Are we prepared to back the football department in risking losing Thornton for nothing if we do not get a fair trade from Hawthorn?
Glenn says:
good question to answer
Glenn says:
2. A statement to redefine or back the current policy re players under 24 or capable of playing 100 games.
Glenn says:
ditto
tanni says:
1. yes
The Old Dark Navy's says:
We need a resolution tonight
The Old Dark Navy's says:
and the others can come in and vote on it tomorrow
Glenn says:
ok
Glenn says:
sure
tanni says:
do we all agree with number 1?
The Old Dark Navy's says:
Yes
Glenn says:
yes
The Old Dark Navy's says:
However, we can not be specific with what we expect
The Old Dark Navy's says:
that is the footy depts area
Glenn says:
number 1 priority, do not get screwed in any trade scenario
The Old Dark Navy's says:
we would just be backing them
Glenn says:
sends the wrong message
Glenn says:
look at Norths reputation
tanni says:
HBF will be here shortly apparently
Glenn says:
they will not make a decent trade for years now
The Old Dark Navy's says:
cool
Glenn says:
i agree ODN
Glenn says:
but don't you think it would be fun to have positions on that anyway?
Glenn says:
if we are a virtual board, can't we be a virtual football department too
Glenn says:
lets take the Grant Thomas approach
tanni says:
ODN, dont u think the Board provide the footy department with their view and boundaries to work with
The Old Dark Navy's says:
Just relax, these teleconferences are free and easy
The Old Dark Navy's says:
pretend the webcam isn't there
Gilly1972 says:
webcam?!!!
The Old Dark Navy's says:
no webcam, who said anything about a webcam
Gilly1972 says:
haha
Gilly1972 says:
now why are we here again?
Gilly1972 says:
this is hard work, we have earnt a coffee break
The Old Dark Navy's says:
what's a meeting without sexual harassment of some sort
Gilly1972 says:
haha
Gilly1972 says:
where is HBF with the coffee ?
The Old Dark Navy's says:
I wonder if Lauraine Diggins cops this?
The Old Dark Navy's says:
Tanya, do you have a preference for who wears #5?
Gilly1972 says:
probably not
tanni says:
she probably cops more!!!
Gilly1972 says:
We don't trade Thornton, he walks into PSD, nobody else of any worth is there, do we redraft him
The Old Dark Navy's says:
oh gee, that's a curly one
tanni says:
ODN, im happy with our current number 5... arent u? i think the kid is going to be anything!
The Old Dark Navy's says:
if he walks into the PSD, we let him go
The Old Dark Navy's says:
Sorry Tan, Diggins got upset she wasn't consulted about JK getting the number
Gilly1972 says:
even if there is only fringe players on offer?
The Old Dark Navy's says:
I see your point
The Old Dark Navy's says:
if there is nothing there we want, we can redraft him
tanni says:
would we want to waste our first draft pick on a player that doesnt want to be there?
The Old Dark Navy's says:
if he has put massive terms on his drafting because he has colluded with the Hawks, we let him go
tanni says:
the answer is NO BLOODY WAY!
tanni says:
what a waste
The Old Dark Navy's says:
there is two issues here
Gilly1972 says:
it is only a PSD draft pick Tan
The Old Dark Navy's says:
Thornton pre-possible EGM and Thornton post-possible EGM
The Old Dark Navy's says:
What if the real board is ousted
The Old Dark Navy's says:
and Pagan is sent packing
tanni says:
yeah but there could be a Polak in the PSD
The Old Dark Navy's says:
unlikely
Gilly1972 says:
true ODN
The Old Dark Navy's says:
but Thornton would want to stay then
Gilly1972 says:
new coach that T-bird is happy to play under
tanni says:
at the risk of sounding like an idiot, EGM?
tanni says:
extrodinary general meeting?
The Old Dark Navy's says:
extraordinary general meeting
The Old Dark Navy's says:
yes
tanni says:
cool
The Old Dark Navy's says:
they are the ones called when someone wants to overthrow the board
tanni says:
another issue - denis pagan
Gilly1972 says:
i think either way, what pagan did today was good
The Old Dark Navy's says:
I was happy with it
Gilly1972 says:
establish that we want to re-sign him
The Old Dark Navy's says:
Some aren't
Gilly1972 says:
that way his price has just gone up
The Old Dark Navy's says:
yes
tanni says:
i agree ODN... pagan's statement was just wat the doctors ordered
tanni says:
even though Thornton has said he wants to leave, we made it very clear we want him still
The Old Dark Navy's says:
We did that with Campo last year though
The Old Dark Navy's says:
and where did he go
tanni says:
even if Pagan did stumble to have to think of the team he is coaching (he paused just before he said "the blues") jk
The Old Dark Navy's says:
the Roooooooooooeally famous Blues
Gilly1972 says:
i think Thornton and Cancereale are different issues though
Gilly1972 says:
Campo was after more $$
Gilly1972 says:
we have more or less matched the hawks offer as i understand it
The Old Dark Navy's says:
I don't get the Thornton thing though
Gilly1972 says:
so it is about the atmosphere and environment he is playing in
The Old Dark Navy's says:
If he wanted a fresh start, then why were they nailing us over the contract offer?
tanni says:
i dont get it either
tanni says:
exactly!
tanni says:
it was obviously a front
Gilly1972 says:
true
tanni says:
to see what we would offer him
The Old Dark Navy's says:
Could it really be a case of getting insulted and spitting the dummy over the first offer?
tanni says:
but to be honest, i dont want a player on our list who doesnt wanna be there
Gilly1972 says:
and maybe now we are holding out to see what the final offers are for him?
The Old Dark Navy's says:
Would you really give up on your teammates that quickly
tanni says:
imagine if thornton is retained... doesnt set a very good example for the kids does it?
The Old Dark Navy's says:
I don't know
The Old Dark Navy's says:
If he sat down and listened
tanni says:
we are keeping somebody who doesnt want to be there
The Old Dark Navy's says:
He is being a bit like a spoiled kid right now
tanni says:
he clearly has a prob with denis..... he refused to meet with him apparently
Gilly1972 says:
i think either way, we can't let ourselves be seen to accept a poor deal for him
The Old Dark Navy's says:
can only think it has something to do with his petulance on the field
Gilly1972 says:
can you see the press headlines now
Gilly1972 says:
Blues more of a rabble
Gilly1972 says:
screwed by hawthorn in trade
Gilly1972 says:
etc
Gilly1972 says:
as opposed to Blues make a Stand
tanni says:
id rather Blues makes a stand
The Old Dark Navy's says:
damned no matter what
tanni says:

Gilly1972 says:
he can be petulant, have to remember he is only 22
Gilly1972 says:
he seems older
Gilly1972 says:
look at Fev at 22
The Old Dark Navy's says:
people will say we are silly and can ill afford to give up a pick in the 20s, that we have an obligation to take whatever we can to rebuild the club
tanni says:
it feels like thornton has been around for ever doesnt it... i agree
Gilly1972 says:
but it isn't just about this trade
The Old Dark Navy's says:
I know
Gilly1972 says:
but next year, and the year after
Gilly1972 says:
and not looking like pushovers at trade week
The Old Dark Navy's says:
we run the risk of several young players walking out
The Old Dark Navy's says:
if performance is what matters
Gilly1972 says:
and not looking like pushovers to player managers trying to milk more money for their players
The Old Dark Navy's says:
and then if a few walk out and they have ex teammates at other clubs, they will happily go there
tanni says:
i agree.... we needed to take a stand and we did! i like it! about time they grew some balls
The Old Dark Navy's says:
we can't make it easy for them
Gilly1972 says:
i don't think that will happen though ODN
Gilly1972 says:
i don't see others walking
Gilly1972 says:
not once we have Gibbs and Murph and Simmo running around
tanni says:
u can see who is committed to the club and who isnt i think
tanni says:
is simmo out of contract?
tanni says:
or not?
The Old Dark Navy's says:
No
Gilly1972 says:
and leaders of the club in a few years
tanni says:
ive heard different tjings
The Old Dark Navy's says:
I don't believe so
Gilly1972 says:
i think we extended it last year
The Old Dark Navy's says:
Apparently he extended his contract for an extra year last year
Gilly1972 says:
i think next year he comes out again
Gilly1972 says:
maybe
Gilly1972 says:
yes
The Old Dark Navy's says:
taking him until the end of next year
tanni says:
i know this is another subject matter but kind of relates to trade week and PSD - who is out of contract???????? can we find out how many years players still have on their contracts?
The Old Dark Navy's says:
the important ones, ie should be delisted
The Old Dark Navy's says:
Deluca one year
The Old Dark Navy's says:
Teague one year
Gilly1972 says:
lol
Gilly1972 says:
yes
The Old Dark Navy's says:
Saddington one year
Gilly1972 says:
i would pay teague out